$Q,QWHUYLHZZLWK (UZLQ/LQ]QHU'& E\0DUN+XEHUPDQ 'U(UZLQ/LQ]QHUFRPSOHWHGKLVXQGHUJUDGXDWHWUDLQLQJDWWKH &DOLIRUQLD6WDWH8QLYHUVLW\/RV$QJHOHV+HWKHQZHQWRQWRJUDGXDWH 0DJQD&XP/DXGHDQGDVFODVVYDOHGLFWRULDQIURP:HVWHUQ6WDWHV &KLURSUDFWLF&ROOHJH'U/LQ]QHUZRUNHGDVDQDFFRXQWDQWDQG FRPSXWHUSURJUDPPHUSULRUWREHFRPLQJDGRFWRU,QKHEHFDPH DI¿OLDWHGZLWK7UXH1RUWK+HDOWK&HQWHU'U/LQ]QHUXQGHUVWDQGVWKH LPSRUWDQFHRIDGGUHVVLQJWKHHQWLUHLQGLYLGXDOSK\VLFDODVZHOODV HPRWLRQDOLQJXLGLQJKLVSDWLHQWVLQWKHLUSURFHVVRIKHDOLQJ+H LQFRUSRUDWHVVRIWWLVVXHPDQLSXODWLRQLQWKHWUHDWPHQWRIP\RIDVFLDODQG FRQQHFWLYHWLVVXHGLVRUGHUVDQGVSHQGVWKHWLPHWRFRUUHFWMRLQW SUREOHPVLQWKHH[WUHPLWLHVDVZHOODVWKHVSLQH When you were first introduced as a new hygienic physician One of the great things for the NHA was that Fit for Life and to the readers of Health Science magazine way back in Janu- its authors, Harvey and Marilyn Diamond, didn’t have an or- ary of 1997, I recall that your door to Natural Hygiene came ganization of their own, and so they referred people who from reading Fit for Life . What was it about that book that wanted to gain more information about the program to us. you found thought-provoking? Is that how you were introduced to the NHA? ,WZDVDQDFFXPXODWLRQRIWKLQJV,·YHOHDUQHGRYHUWKH 7KDWZDVLW,VWDUWHGJHWWLQJOLWHUDWXUHIURPWKH1+$ \HDUVWKDWZHDOZD\VUHMHFWLQIRUPDWLRQDWÀUVWHYHQLILW·V DERXWRQFHDPRQWKDQGWKHQRQHGD\,JRWDÁLHUWKDW'U WUXHDQG,GLGWKLVLQP\WZHQWLHV,KDGDJRRGIULHQGZKR $ODQ*ROGKDPHUZDVJLYLQJDWDONLQ6DQWD0RQLFDDQG, ZDVHDWLQJSODQWEDVHG,·PSUHWW\VXUHKHZDVYHJDQ$QG EHFDPHLQWHUHVWHG$OVRRQWKHSURJUDPZHUH'U-HQQLIHU KHZRXOGPDNHVDODGVDQGEDNHGSRWDWRHVIRUPHZKHQ 0DUDQRDQG'U$ODQ,PPHUPDQ'U*ROGKDPHUVSRNH ,·GYLVLWKLP7KHQ,ZRXOGJRWR0F'RQDOG·VDIWHUZDUGV DERXWZDWHUIDVWLQJDQGJHWWLQJSHRSOHZHOOZLWKIDVWLQJ %XWWKHQLQP\WKLUWLHV,JXHVV,ZDVDERXW,UHDGWKH DQGKHDOWK\HDWLQJ,WPDGHVRPXFKVHQVHWRPHDQGJRW ERRN )LWIRU/LIH DQGLWUHDOO\PDGHVHQVHWRPHWKDWZHDUH PHH[FLWHGDERXWZDQWLQJWRPDNHDGLͿHUHQFHLQSHRSOH·V GHVLJQHGWRKDYHDQRSWLPXPGLHWDQGLI OLYHVVR,GHFLGHGWRIROORZLQ'U*ROG \RXGHYLDWHWRRPXFKWKHQWKLQJVDUHQ·W KDPHU·VIRRWVWHSVDQGJRWR:HVWHUQ6WDWHV JRLQJWRZRUNDVZHOO$QGWKDWPDGHVHQVH ´1RERG\SXWV &KLURSUDFWLF&ROOHJH WRPHMXVWOLNHQRERG\SXWVVXJDUDQGGLUW VXJDUDQGGLUWLQWR LQWRWKHLUJDVWDQNVZHVKRXOGQ·WEHGRLQJ WKHLUJDVWDQNVZH Were there there other books that you read WKDWHLWKHUZLWKRXUIRRG2QHGD\,VDLG that helped frame your thinking? ´2ND\,·OOJLYHWKLVDWULDOIRUDIXOOZHHNµ VKRXOGQ·WEHGRLQJ ,RIFRXUVHUHDGDOPRVWHYHU\WKLQJ DQGOXFNLO\IRUPH,ZRNHXSDIWHUWKUHH WKDWHLWKHUZLWK IURP'U+HUEHUW6KHOWRQDQG,ZDVSDU GD\VRISODQWEDVHGHDWLQJDQGP\HQHUJ\ RXUIRRGµ WLFXODUO\LQVSLUHGE\KLVERRN )DVWLQJ&DQ MXVWERXQGHGLWZDVMXVWSKHQRPHQDO 6DYH<RXU/LIH Were you having any health problems at the time? After reading the book, did you undertake a fast yourself to <HV,QHYHUKDGHQHUJ\,·GJHWXSDW$0EXW,GLGQ·W fully understand the experience? IHHOOLNH,ZDVDFWXDOO\PRYLQJXQWLODERXW$0$QG, $WWKHWLPHP\ZLIHQHHGHGLWPRUHWKDQ,GLG6R, KDGIUHTXHQWFROGVDQGZRXOGEHRXWRIZRUNIRUWZRRU WKRXJKW,·GOHWKHUEHWKHJXLQHDSLJ6R,VHQWKHUXSWR WKUHHGD\V,NQHZVRPHWKLQJZDVQ·WULJKW 'U*ROGKDPHU Q 1$7,21$/+($/7+$662&,$7,21 +($/7+6&,(1&( 635,1* What a generous hus- \HDUDQGLWUHDOO\PRWL band! YDWHGPHWRGRWKLVNLQG :HOO FKXFNOH VKH RIZRUNVR,DPJRLQJWR KDGDKLVWRU\RIVPRNLQJ JRWR&KLURSUDFWLF&RO DQGZDVDOLWWOHRYHU OHJHWRLQYROYHP\VHOILQ ZHLJKWVR,VDLGZK\ WKHVDPHNLQGRIZRUNµ GRQ·WZHVHQG\RXXS 7RP\VXUSULVH$ODQ WKHUHWRFOHDQRXWDELW VDLG´*UHDW$VVRRQDV 6KHZDVRSHQWRLWDQG \RXJUDGXDWHJLYHPHD GLGTXLWHDORQJIDVWRI FDOOµ RYHUGD\VDW'U*ROG KDPHU·VILUVWIDFLOLW\LQ And you did? 3HQQJURYH&DOLIRUQLD ,QGHHG,GLG2I FDOOHGWKH&HQWHUIRU FRXUVH,FKHFNHGZLWK KLPDVWKLQJVZHQW &RQVHUYDWLYH7KHUDS\ 'U/LQ]QHUDQGIDPLO\DWKLV:HVWHUQ6WDWHV&KLURSUDFWLFJUDGXDWLRQ DORQJWRPDNHVXUHKH Was that eye-opening for her? ZDVVHULRXVDERXWLWDQGWKDWKHZRXOGVWLOOEULQJPHRQ 2K\HV,WZDVH\HRSHQLQJIRUXVERWK6KHORVW ZKHQ,JUDGXDWHG$QGKHVDLG´<HDK\HDKNHHSZRUN ZHLJKWDQGUHDOO\ORRNHGUDGLDQW,WZDVMXVWDPD]LQJ LQJ:H·UHZDLWLQJIRU\RXµ,PPHGLDWHO\DIWHUJUDGXDWLQJ $IWHUWKDW,GLGDIDVWDVZHOOEXWRQO\IRUDERXWÀYHGD\V KHJDYHPHWKHRSSRUWXQLW\WRGRDQLQWHUQVKLSDQGZKHQ WKDWZDVFRPSOHWHGKHPDGHPHSDUWRIWKHVWDͿ,WZDVD Do you remember the first NHA conference you attended? JUHDWH[SHULHQFH ,WKLQNLWZDV*HRUJHWRZQ8QLYHUVLW\EDFNLQ ULJKWDIWHU,MRLQHG$ODQ I know that Dr. Goldhamer still offers internship opportuni- ties to young physicians. Why is it important to do an intern- Were there other hygienic physicians that you met who were ship in fasting supervision? influential in your thinking? ,W·VWKHEHVWDQGSUREDEO\RQO\ZD\IRUGRFWRUVWR 7ZRWKDWLPSUHVVHGPHDORWZHUH'U$OHF%XUWRQDQG DFWXDOO\OHDUQZKDWZRUNVDQGZKDWGRHVQ·W$QGLW·VSUHW 'U.HNL6LGKZD%HOLHYHLWRUQRWRQP\EXVULGHIURPWKH W\SKHQRPHQDOWRDFWXDOO\VHHSHRSOHJHWZHOOIURPGLHW DLUSRUW,IRXQGP\VHOIVLWWLQJQH[WWR'U6LGKZD,WSURYHG FKDQJHVDQGIDVWLQJ,·YHVHHQVRPHPLUDFXORXVUHFRYHULHV DZRQGHUIXORSSRUWXQLW\WREHJLQSLFNLQJKLVEUDLQ Are there any that really stand out in your mind? How did you wind up working at TrueNorth? 7KHUHKDYHEHHQPDQ\,QP\ÀUVW\HDUDW7UXH1RUWK, $IWHUGRLQJP\IDVWDW7UXH1RUWK,ZDVUHDOO\ KHOSHGFDUHIRUDJHQWOHPDQLQKLVIRUWLHVZKRZDVDGUXJ LPSUHVVHGZLWKWKHZRUNWKDW'U*ROGKDPHUZDVGRLQJ DGGLFWREHVHDQGLQFRQJHVWLYHKHDUWIDLOXUH:KHQKHZDV VR,VDLGWRKLP´,ZHQWWR\RXUWDONLQ6DQWD0RQLFDODVW GURSSHGRͿDWWKHFHQWHUKHZDVKX΀QJDQGSX΀QJMXVW WU\LQJWRJHWWRWKHGRRU$QG,UHPHPEHUWKLQNLQJ´2K ER\WKLVLVQ·WJRRG:HDUHDFWXDOO\JRLQJWRIDVWWKLVJX\"µ ,WKLQNKHZDVUHIHUUHGE\DPHGLFDOGRFWRULQ6DQWD5RVD ZKRWROGKLPWKDWWKLVZDVKLVODVWFKDQFHWRJHWKHDOWK\ $QGWKDWLIZHFRXOGQ·WKHOSKLPWKHUHSUREDEO\ZDVQ·W DQ\WKLQJWKDWFRXOGEHGRQHIRUKLP%HFDXVHRIKLVVLWXD WLRQKHZDVSUHSDUHGWRGRZKDWHYHUZHDVNHGRIKLP, GRQ·WUHFDOOKRZORQJZHIHGKLPEHIRUHZHVWDUWHGIDVWLQJ KLPEXWZHIDVWHGKLPDERXWGD\V$PD]LQJO\DIWHU EUHDNLQJKLVIDVWWKLVJX\ZKRFRXOGQ·WZDONIURPKLVFDU WR7UXH1RUWK·VIURQWGRRUHQGHGXSZDONLQJXSDVLJQLÀ FDQWKLOOQHDUE\+HWKHQVWDUWHGZDONLQJPLOHVDGD\ DQGWUXO\VWDUWHGDQHZOLIH,WZDVUHDOO\DPD]LQJWRVHH 'U/LQ]QHUUHOD[LQJLQWKHORXQJHLQDWWKH+HDOWK3URPRWLRQ During my recent interview with Dr. Frank Sabatino, he felt &OLQLFQRZNQRZQDV7UXH1RUWK+HDOWK there was a great place for fasting and a hygienic lifestyle in +($/7+6&,(1&( Q 635,1* 1$7,21$/+($/7+$662&,$7,21 the true recovery from addiction. Do you agree? <HV,GR+RZHYHUSHRSOHUHFRYHULQJIURPDGGLFWLRQ DUHRIWHQWRXJKHUWRPDQDJH%XWLIWKH\·UHPRWLYDWHGDQG DUHZLOOLQJWRGRWKHKDUGZRUNWKH\·UHJRLQJWRJHWEHWWHU TXLFNHU Over your past 18 years at TrueNorth, are there other condi- tions that you’ve seen respond particularly well to fasting? ,UHPHPEHUD\RXQJZRPDQPD\EHLQKHUODWHWZHQ WLHVZLWKVHYHUHUKHXPDWRLGDUWKULWLV6KHFRXOGQRWUHDFK KHUKHDGWRGRKHUKDLU6KHIDVWHGFORVHWRWKUHHZHHNVDQG KDGDJUHDWUHVXOW,UHPHPEHUKRZH[FLWHGVKHZDVZKHQ VKHZDVDEOHWRGRKHURZQKDLUDJDLQ What do you think the power of fasting is? 'U/LQ]QHUDQGKLVZLIH&DURO\QLQ )DVWLQJGRHVDORWRIWKLQJVEXWWKHRQHELJWKLQJLW GRHVLVUHMXYHQDWHWKHERG\'XULQJDIDVW\RXDUHEUHDNLQJ PDQ\SHRSOHVXͿHULQJIURPGLDEHWHVZKRZHUHRQPHGLFD GRZQROGWLVVXHDQGGLVHDVHGFHOOVWKDWDFWXDOO\JHWUHEXLOW WLRQV ZLWKQHZPDWHULDO<RXJHWHQ]\PDWLFLQGXFWLRQDQG\RX FOHDQRXW\RXUDUWHULHV([FHVVÁXLGDQGVDOWOHDYH\RXU How do you motivate people to adhere to the health pro- V\VWHP$QG\RXULPPXQHV\VWHPVWUHQJWKHQVQRWQHFHV gram after a fast, and not slip back to hold habits and temp- VDULO\GXULQJWKHIDVWEXWFHUWDLQO\DIWHUZDUGV tations once they return to their homes and jobs? )RUPRVWSHRSOHLW·VDSURFHVV7KHPDMRULW\RISHRSOH Do you think that everybody needs to fast, or that everyone GRQ·WPDNHFKDQJHVRYHUQLJKW:KDW,VHHLVWKDWSHRSOH would benefit from fasting on some level? JHWEHWWHUHDFKWLPHWKH\FRPHLQ6RWKH\PD\FRPHRQFH <HV,WKLQNHYHU\RQHFRXOGEHQHÀWIURPSHULRGLFIDVW D\HDURUPD\EHHYHQWZLFHD\HDU7KHÀUVWWLPHWKH\JLYH LQJ(YHQLI\RXHDWDUHDOO\KHDOWK\GLHW, XSWKHFLJDUHWWHVDQGWKHVHFRQGWLPHWKH\ WKLQNHYHU\IRXUWRILYH\HDUVLW·VDJRRG ´,KDYHSUREDEO\ JLYHXSWKHEHHUDQGWKH\HDWPRUHYHJHWD LGHDWRXQGHUWDNHDIDVWWRFOHDQVHWKHSDO EOHV)RURWKHUVWKH\MXVWJHWLWDQGWKH\GR DWHGHWR[DQGJLYH\RXUERG\DUHVWIURP VHHQDWKRXVDQG WKHULJKWWKLQJVIRUDZKLOH+RZHYHU GLJHVWLRQLQDZD\WKDWZLOODOORZWKHERG\ SDWLHQWVZLWK VWUHVVHVJHWLQWKHZD\ZKHQORYHGRQHVGLH WRKHDO K\SHUWHQVLRQZKR DQGSHRSOHORVHMREVIRUH[DPSOH$IWHU KDGQRUPDORU WKRVHW\SHVRIHPRWLRQDOO\FKDUJHGHYHQWV Is there a danger for people fasting them- SHRSOHFDQIDOOEDFNLQWRROGKDELWVRIWU\ selves, and is there a limit to how many days QHDUQRUPDOEORRG LQJWRJHWSDLQUHOLHIE\HDWLQJFUDSS\IRRG people can go without supervision? SUHVVXUHDIWHU )DVWLQJRIDQ\VLJQLILFDQWGXUDWLRQ IDVWLQJDQGQR Is that what Drs. Goldhamer and Lisle call VKRXOGEHGRQHXQGHUVXSHUYLVLRQE\D the “Pleasure Trap”? PHGLFDOSURIHVVLRQDO7KLVLVSDUWLFXODUO\ ORQJHUQHHGHG <HV<RXIHHODOLWWOHEHWWHUEHFDXVH\RX WKHFDVHIRUSHRSOHRQPHGLFDWLRQVEHFDXVH PHGLFDWLRQµ KDYHVRPHHQGRUSKLQUHOHDVHVIURPWKH GUDPDWLFWKLQJVFDQKDSSHQGXULQJWKH IDWW\IRRGV\RX·UHHDWLQJ%XWWKLVLVYHU\ IDVWLQJVWDWH+RZHYHULI\RXDUHQRWRQPHGLFDWLRQDIDVW VKRUWWHUP7KHGDPDJHKRZHYHUZLOOODVWIRUGD\VDQG RIWZRRUWKUHHGD\VLVJHQHUDOO\VDIH LI\RXGRWKDWIRUDQ\SHULRGRIWLPHKHDOWKSUREOHPVVWDUW XSDJDLQ Can people get off their medication following a period of fast- ing and diet modification? My late father used to say that if you went to a hygienic facil- $EVROXWHO\,KDYHSUREDEO\VHHQDWKRXVDQGSDWLHQWV ity or you came to an NHA conference, it would “recharge your ZLWKK\SHUWHQVLRQZKRKDGQRUPDORUQHDUQRUPDOEORRG battery.” Do you also find that to be the case at TrueNorth? SUHVVXUHDIWHUIDVWLQJDQGQRORQJHUQHHGHGPHGLFDWLRQ, <HV³QRWRQO\SK\VLFDOO\EXWPHQWDOO\,WKLQNRQHRI FDQFRXQWWKHQXPEHURIIDLOXUHVRQRQHKDQG7KDW·VSUHW WKHPRVWLPSRUWDQWWKLQJVZHRͿHULVWKHGDLO\OHFWXUHV:H W\SKHQRPHQDO$QGHYHQLIWKH\GRQ·WJHWIXOOUHVROXWLRQ RͿHUSHRSOHWZRDGD\DͿRUGLQJWKHPDZRQGHUIXORSSRU WKH\VWLOOVHHVXEVWDQWLDOLPSURYHPHQW7KHVDPHLVWUXHIRU WXQLW\WRXQGHUVWDQGWKHWKLQJVZHUHFRPPHQGWKHPWRGR Q 1$7,21$/+($/7+$662&,$7,21 +($/7+6&,(1&(