DÁIL ÉIREANN COISTE SPEISIALTA UM FHREAGRA AR COVID-19 SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON COVID-19 RESPONSE Déardaoin, 13 Lúnasa 2020 Thursday, 13 August 2020 Tháinig an Coiste le chéile ag 10 a.m. The Committee met at 10 a.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators James Browne,* Colm Burke, Holly Cairns,* Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Matt Carthy, Réada Cronin,+ David Cullinane, Cormac Devlin,* Bernard J. Durkan,* James Lawless,* Steven Matthews,+ Paul McAuliffe,* Jennifer Murnane O’Connor,+ Carol Nolan,* Louise O’Reilly, Darren O’Rourke,* Marc Ó Cathasaigh,* Patricia Ryan,+ Matt Shanahan, Duncan Smith. * In éagmais / In the absence of Deputies John McGuinness, Roísín Shortall, Mary Butler, Colm Brophy, Norma Foley, Stephen Donnelly, Michael Collins, Pearse Doherty and Ossian Smyth, repsectively. + In éagmais le haghaidh cuid den choiste / In the absence for part of the meeting of Depu- ties Darren O’Rouke, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Paul McAuliffe and Louise O’Reilly, respectively. Teachta / Deputy Michael McNamara sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 SCR Business of Special Committee Chairman: We have a quorum so we will go straight into public session. I apologise for being slightly late. I thought we were sitting in the Dáil Chamber but it became apparent that we were not. We have been notified that Deputies Holly Cairns, Cormac Devlin, Paul McAuliffe, Jennifer Murnane O’Connor, Padraig O’Sullivan, Carol Nolan, Bernard Durkan and James Lawless will be substituting for colleagues today. I take the items of correspondence received as noted with the exception of that from the Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly. The Minister has indicated that he and the act- ing CMO, Dr. Ronan Glynn, are not in a position to attend today’s meeting. However, the Min- ister has indicated to me privately that they are in a position to make themselves available to the committee next week. Does the committee wish to discuss this at the end of today’s meeting? I asked the Minister if he was available the following week but I did not receive a reply. Will we discuss this at the end of today’s meeting or will we instruct the secretariat to at least ascertain, perhaps before close of business today, what day he would be available next week or whether he is available the following week? Deputy Louise O’Reilly: Yes, we should. Chairman: It may well be that he is not available the following week. I do not know. In fairness to the Minister and to the acting CMO in particular, they are entitled to some downtime and family time. Deputy Louise O’Reilly: I do not think anyone is trying to take that from them. As the Chairman knows, Sinn Féin’s preference is for a meeting the week after. It is fair enough if that cannot be facilitated, but it is our preference. Chairman: If the secretariat could seek----- Deputy Paul McAuliffe: On that subject, I have noticed media reports which suggest that it is intended to call other Ministers before the committee in August. I believe the Social Democrats wished to call the Minister for Education and Skills. Is it intended that the commit- tee meet weekly throughout August? What other Ministers are to be called? It would be good to co-ordinate the committee’s different activities during August. Chairman: I have not seen the media reports and the Social Democrats have not contacted me to tell me that they wish the Minister to be called before the committee. Personally, I hope there will not be a need to meet the Minister and that the schools will open as anticipated, as I expect and hope they will. Can we discuss this matter in private session? I was not aware of these issues and I thank Deputy McAuliffe for bringing them to my attention. Perhaps we will discuss the matter this evening. It is not intended to meet weekly but, given the circumstances that arose last weekend, it is good that we are meeting now to discuss the issue of the meat plants. Deputy Louise O’Reilly: I do not propose that the committee meet every week. If there are witnesses Deputies wish to call for a meeting, we should try to condense those meetings with the intention of dealing with them all in one week, if possible. Clearly, everyone is entitled to time off. I refer not only to ourselves but to the staff of the secretariat and so on. Perhaps we 2 13 AUGUST 2020 could condense all meetings into a given week so as not to sit throughout the month. Chairman: That is fine. We tried to do that by holding three sessions today. Deputy Colm Burke: As it is August, it is important that everyone be given adequate no- tice. Chairman: Absolutely. Deputy Colm Burke: I am not sure people would be able to attend a meeting next week. A meeting in two weeks’ time may be better but we should decide today whether it will be held then or in three weeks’ time so that everyone will have adequate notice. Chairman: I accept that. We will also be sitting in September so that might be an oppor- tune time to bring in witnesses other than the Minister for Health and the deputy chief medical officer. Deputy Louise O’Reilly: It might be too late. Chairman: The acting thinks it might be too late. In fairness to the Minister for Health, he said that he and the acting chief medical officer would be available next week. We can discuss other witnesses later rather than taking up time now. I agree, however, that we must give people adequate notice, particularly at this time. On that, I thank the secretariat for organising today’s meeting at very short notice. I particularly thank Mr Tom Malone and Ms Éilis Fallon. It is greatly appreciated. We will move on to our witnesses, if that is okay with members. Covid-19: The Situation in Meat Processing Plants Chairman: I welcome our witnesses, who are in committee room 2, to discuss the situation in meat processing plants. I have a different name on the list before me but the representative from the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, is obviously Ms Patricia King. I welcome Ms King and thank her very much for coming before the committee again. She was here on the first day, as were representatives from the Health and Safety Authority. From SIPTU, I welcome Mr. Greg Ennis, manufacturing division organiser. From the Independent Workers’ Union, I welcome Ms Nora Labo of the Cork Operative Butchers Society. I wish to advise our guests that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. If they are directed by the committee to cease giving evidence in relation to a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. Witnesses are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise nor make charges against any person, persons or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. I will ask each witness to make an opening statement of no more than five minutes’ duration. I understand Ms King’s statement is quite short. She may wish to give some of her time to her trade union movement colleagues. Ms Patricia King: ICTU represents over 800,000 members in every sector of the economy across our island. We welcome the opportunity to appear before the committee this morning. 3 SCR On previous occasions, both through written submissions and oral evidence, ICTU has outlined to members details of our active and significant role in responding to the Covid-19 outbreak in Ireland on behalf of workers. In June, this committee sought and received our sub- mission relating to the emergence of clusters of Covid-19 in the meat processing sector. It is, therefore, not my intention to repeat the points raised therein. Meat processing plants, in our view, are very vulnerable to the spread of Covid-19 and should be regarded as high-risk work- places in terms of viral spread. There are specific features which underpin this classification that are recognised globally. Meat processing is labour intensive, involving very physically demanding work, organised around at-pace production lines where workers work in close prox- imity to one another, making social distancing difficult to achieve, while language differences can often impede good communications. Despite the fact that this is a highly profitable, heavily subsidised industry, low pay and deficient terms and conditions, including the absence of sick pay schemes, are common across the sector. Workers may often live in crowded or congregated accommodation settings while transportation to and from work may not always be conducive to practising the required social distancing measures. From a very early stage, our affiliate trade union, SIPTU, has continuously highlighted the vulnerability of the meat processing sector to the spread of Covid 19. I have no doubt its repre- sentatives will elaborate on this. We have also regularly liaised with the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland, MRCI, on these matters. For our part, congress has, through the consultative forum of the national safety protocol, sought to have a number of key principles adopted, which would serve to contain the spread of the virus and address the recent spikes in cases in meat processing plants in the midlands.