Vol. 669 Tuesday, No. 2 2 December 2008 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Tuesday, 2 December 2008. Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 171 Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Priority Questions …………………………… 180 Other Questions …………………………… 191 Estimates for Public Services 2008: Message from Select Committee …………… 199 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 199 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 199 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 32 ……………… 203 Order of Business ……………………………… 204 Human Rights Commission (Amendment) Bill 2008: First Stage ……………… 211 Regional Fisheries Boards: Motion ………………………… 211 Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2008: Order for Second Stage …………………………… 212 Second Stage ……………………………… 212 Referral to Select Committee ………………………… 229 Nursing Homes Support Scheme Bill 2008: Second Stage (resumed) …………… 229 Private Members’ Business Agriculture: Motion …………………………… 233 Adjournment Debate Redundant Apprentices …………………………… 257 Leaving Certificate Technology Programme …………………… 258 School Staffing ……………………………… 260 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 265 DA´ IL E´ IREANN ———— De´ Ma´irt, 2 Nollaig 2008. Tuesday, 2 December 2008. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.30 p.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Ceisteanna — Questions. ———— Agreements with Members. 1. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement between the Government and Deputy Jackie Healy-Rae; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29487/08] 2. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement between the Government and Deputy Michael Lowry; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29488/08] 3. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the nature of the agreement between the Government and Deputy Finian McGrath; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29489/08] 4. Deputy Enda Kenny asked the Taoiseach the arrangements in place in his office for providing special assistance to certain Independent Members of Da´il E´ ireann; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29490/08] 5. Deputy Eamon Gilmore asked the Taoiseach the arrangements in place for providing assistance to certain Independent Members of Da´il E´ ireann; the Members who benefit from this arrangement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32378/08] 6. Deputy Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach the changes that have occurred in arrangements between the Government and the Independent Deputies of Da´il E´ ireann; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37597/08] The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together. These are political agreements that my predecessor entered into as leader of the Fianna Fa´il Party with individual Independent Deputies. I have confirmed to those Deputies concerned that I will continue to implement those agreements. The House is aware such agreements have existed for over 11 years. The House is also aware of the decision taken by Deputy Finian McGrath to withdraw from his agreement. 171 Ceisteanna — 2 December 2008. Questions [The Taoiseach.] The agreements are confidential but they are, as always, based on the programme for Government which incorporates the national development plan, approved Government prog- rammes and annual Estimates for capital and current expenditure. I have continued the practice whereby a staff member in my office assists the Government Chief Whip’s office in its work in liasing with these Deputies. This official meets with these Deputies on a regular basis and arranges to keep them briefed on issues as they arise. The official dealing with the Deputies is an assistant principal and he assists the Chief Whip in this matter. Deputy Enda Kenny: I am glad to see we are graced with the presence of a Green Minister today; it is most unusual. I welcome the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy John Gormley. Deputy John Gormley: I thank the Deputy. Deputy Enda Kenny: He is reflecting on Ringsend today. As I understand it there was a specific agreement with the Independent Members of the House, including Deputy Finian McGrath, who is not here now. He seems to have withdrawn his support for the Government so is the agreement that was in place with him now withdrawn? Does it stand or have any relevance? What is the arrangement that now applies between the Government and the remaining Inde- pendents? Is there a weekly meeting, how many officials attend that meeting, if so, and is there a prescriptive list being followed from the documents that are supposed to be worth millions? The Taoiseach: As I outlined in my initial reply, Deputy Finian McGrath has withdrawn from the agreement on the basis that he can no longer formally offer support to the Government. Deputy Enda Kenny: His agreement has ended. The Taoiseach: It is not being worked through on the basis of his own decision to withdraw support from the Government. Deputy Enda Kenny: Fair enough. The Taoiseach: That was the basis on which it was provided. I am sure he will continue to make representations and seek to obtain benefits for his constituency as he is entitled to, like any other Member. There is a liaison arrangement, as I have said, with the Chief Whip, who is assisted by a person from my office in dealing with other Independents who support the Government, and they meet from time to time as required. Deputy Enda Kenny: In the case of Deputies Healy-Rae or Lowry, for example, does the Whip meet with both Independent Deputies on a weekly basis, together with somebody from the Taoiseach’s office? Is that a good use of a public servant’s time? These are so-called secret deals that nobody knows anything about except the Government, the Whip and the person from the Taoiseach’s office. Are these meetings a progress report on road X or project Y? Is that the kind of format the Whip and the person from the Taoiseach’s office goes through in order to see that the Independents in question are kept comfortable? The Taoiseach: As I stated in both my original reply and the supplementary, there is a liaison arrangement so the Chief Whip, as he would with Members from all parties, has ongoing contact with regard to the business of the House and any other issues arising that would be of 172 Ceisteanna — 2 December 2008. Questions interest to the people who support the Government. The arrangements and contacts are infor- mal and could take the form of a meeting, phone call or other form of contact. Deputy Enda Kenny: I have a final point. The Taoiseach rightly states that every Deputy is entitled to make representations. Is there any priority accorded to these Independent Deputies in representations they make, along with other Deputies from the Government side, with regard to particular projects or issues that may arise in constituencies from time to time? Is the effect of the meetings with the Whip and the person from the Taoiseach’s office to accord the Independents any priority over Deputies on the Government backbenches or those in other parts of the House who make perfectly legitimate representations? The Taoiseach: In his dealings, the Chief Whip extends courtesy to all Members. Those who support the Government get his particular attention. Deputy Joan Burton: The Taoiseach referred to an official in his Department assisting the Independent Deputies and their special arrangement with the Government. I understand, from previous replies, the person is at the level of assistant principal officer. An assistant principal officer is on the same scale as a Deputy and would earn up to \100,000 a year. I understand the person spends much time minding the Independent Deputies but even if only a third of his or her time was used in this way, in current economic conditions, when the Government is withdrawing foreign language support teachers etc. and when the Estimates have hit various elements of service very severely, how can this be justified? Surely they could mind themselves. They hardly need the ministrations, for however long, of an assistant principal officer. As regards the economic situation, the Taoiseach said he would take whatever steps are necessary and whatever temporary adjustments are required. The Taoiseach has deals with the Independent Deputies and when Deputy Finian McGrath was in that category it amounted to tens of millions of euro. We have been told, for instance, that extra officials are being deployed to the Equality Authority in Roscrea. Has the fact that we are facing very difficult economic times meant any reduction in the cost of the deals the Taoiseach has done with Independent Deputies? Given the serious economic situation we now find ourselves in, has there been any variation in their part of the programme for Government that is to be implemented at constituency level? The Taoiseach: As I said in the reply, there is an assistant principal officer who, in the course of the duties he undertakes, helps to liaise with Independent Deputies as required. On the question of agreements with them concerning their support for the Government, as I pointed out here last week, all commitments are predicated on the overriding consideration of trying to ensure that we maintain healthy public finances. As we know, there has been a sharp deter- ioration in the public finance position over the past 12 months in the context of the contraction that has taken place in the international economy generally, which is having its effect here. Ireland is a very open economy, which depends on the demand for exports of goods and services in order to provide revenue, jobs and investment. Priorities must, of course, be estab- lished in respect of all aspects of Government administration. That must continue to be the case in the months and years ahead as we try to work our way through this particularly difficult period.