Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 36A - 10 a.m., Tuesday, March 16, 2021 ISSN 0542-5492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC 1649 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, March 16, 2021 The House met at 10 a.m. An opportunity for what, you might ask. Well, it's an opportunity to put the interests of union members Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from ahead of the interests of union leaders. Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to The NDP have clearly stated, by their words and the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O actions, that they are beholden to union leaders. A few merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only union leaders get to decide who's going to be the that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may leader of their party. At the discretion of a few union seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and leaders, the leader is permitted to continue or not accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of continue in their role. Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. What the NDP have missed is that they should not Please be seated. Good morning, everybody. be representing the narrow interests of a few union ORDERS OF THE DAY leaders. They should be representing the interests of union members. They should be representing the PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS interests of all Manitobans. Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Acting Government House Now, in the meantime, I can assure the members Leader): Good morning, Madam Speaker. I believe opposite that the Progressive Conservative caucus we're going to proceed with Bill 222, The Lobbyists understands that and, in fact, does that. We know how Registration Amendment Act. important it is to stand up for every Manitoban, not Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the just the ones who might agree with us. House will consider Bill 222, The Lobbyists In the last election, I lost count of how many Registration Amendment Act, second reading. union members told me at the door that they were SECOND READINGS–PUBLIC BILLS tired. They were tired of being told how to vote. They were tired of being treated like they were just cogs in Bill 222–The Lobbyists Registration some big machine designed to elect the NDP. And, Amendment Act quite frankly, they were tired of the NDP and its Madam Speaker: I will therefore call second reading disastrous legacy. of Bill 222. Clearly, things need to change, because if they Mr. James Teitsma (Radisson): I move, don't, the NDP will continue to languish. And as much seconded by the honourable member for Lagimodière as that might suit my PC colleagues and I politically, (Mr. Smith), that Bill 222, The Lobbyists Registration I genuinely believe that it is not in the best interests of Amendment Act, be now read a second time and be all Manitobans. Our democracy depends on it. referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. So this bill, small though it may be, is an oppor- tunity for the members opposite. Will they take that Mr. Teitsma: It is good to see you, and it's a beautiful opportunity and get this bill passed to committee? Or day, don't you think? You can smell spring in the air. will they talk it out and keep on–keep moving on, Yesterday evening, my wife and I went for a walk going down the narrow road, blind to the fact that around St. Vital Park. Seeing all the geese newly many union members know that the NDP and some of arrived there gives hope that there will soon be an end their union leaders have forgotten about them. to this winter and a time of fair weather ahead. Now, this bill is about transparency. It's about Bit by bit, day by day, we're seeing small and accountability for union members and for all positive changes. Madam Speaker, that is what this Manitobans. bill is like. It is a small step forward. It's a tiny improvement. It's a positive change, and it also repre- Let me briefly get into the technical aspects of this sents an opportunity for members opposite. bill. I feel it is both necessary and important. 1650 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 16, 2021 Now, the current lobbyist–or legislation says that Second, union leadership are aware of the rules union representatives who attempt to influence gov- but somehow believe that those rules don't apply to ernment are lobbying. That includes speaking with them or their activities. Perhaps they broadly define government MLAs, with Cabinet ministers, but it also collective bargaining as everything that they do. I includes speaking with opposition MLAs or even a think I've heard the member from Flin Flon say that. member of any of those officials' staff. * (10:10) Now, currently, there are these two narrow Certainly, such a definition is disputable. I can exemptions that allow unions to go about their work scarcely believe that they think, you know, who– of actively negotiating with government as part of leading–or, sorry, deciding who would lead the NDP collective bargaining or to represent an individual is a form of collective bargaining. I sure hope not, but union member's interest. Those activities of union in any case, I think today's bill will remove that members–or union representatives, rather, and those confusion by removing that narrow exemption. alone, are currently not considered lobbying under the act. Now, the third possibility is that union leadership are aware of the rules and they believe that they apply I have to emphasize the word narrow. These to them, but they just don't care. I certainly hope that exemptions, as spelled out, cannot and do not exclude that is not the case, because if it is, then there needs to all activities of union representatives. In fact, union be consequences. And I would expect that the members that I spoke with expected that their union members opposite would join with me today in clearly leadership would be engaged in attempting to communicating that unions are not above the law, and influence the government on their behalf, not just at that they are required to register as lobbyists when the collective bargaining table, but everywhere. they are engaged in that type of behaviour. So, by definition, and by expectation, you would Now, the fourth possibility–and this is the expect to see a lot of union representatives listed in the possibility that was of most interest to union members Lobbyists Registry, but we don't. There are thousands that I spoke to–was that union leadership are in fact of entries in the Lobbyists Registry, but to find union not actively engaged in attempting to influence representatives, you have to search far and high–or government. low–far and low. You have to [inaudible] There are– Why are union members interested in that they are few and far between on that list. possibility? Well, they wonder what their union Now, I must make one notable exception. My leaders are accomplishing. They wonder where all survey of the thousands of lobbyists entries in the their union dues that they're paying, paycheque after registry over the past decade showed that one union paycheque, are getting spent. They wonder if union did, in fact, appear to take seriously their obligation leaders are willing to be transparent and accountable before the law to register as lobbyists, and that's the about their activities and their use of union dues.