Vol. 197 Thursday, No. 8 22 October 2009 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SEANAD E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Thursday, 22 October 2009. Business of Seanad ………………………………391 Order of Business …………………………………391 Death of Former Member: Expressions of Sympathy ……………………408 European Union Bill 2009: Second Stage ………………………423 Business of Seanad ………………………………431 European Union Bill 2009: Second Stage (resumed)……………………431 Business of Seanad ………………………………440 European Union Bill 2009: Second Stage (resumed)……………………………441 Committee and Remaining Stages …………………………444 Adjournment Matters: Water and Sewerage Schemes …………………………447 Infectious Diseases ………………………………450 SEANAD E´ IREANN ———— De´ardaoin, 22 Deireadh Fo´mhair 2009. Thursday, 22 October 2009. ———— Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Business of Seanad. An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator Cecilia Keaveney that, on the motion for the Adjournment of the House today, she proposes to raise the following matter: The need for the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to give the names and numbers of water and sewerage schemes in County Donegal that are not in compliance with current European directives and the towns and villages that are still awaiting schemes to come into compliance with all relevant EU directives. I have also received notice from Senator Shane Ross of the following matter: The need for the Minister for Health and Children to make Lyme disease a notifiable illness in Ireland, thus increasing the specialist medical help available to sufferers of the illness, as well as publicising the risks of the disease. I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment and they will be taken at the conclusion of business. Order of Business. Senator Donie Cassidy: The Order of Business today will be tributes to the late Senator Tony Kett, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business; and No. 1, European Union Bill 2009 — Second and Subsequent Stages, with the contributions of spokespersons on Second Stage not to exceed 12 minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes, on which Senators may share time and the Minister is to be called upon not later than 1.50 p.m. to conclude the debate. Committee and Remaining Stages shall be taken at the conclusion of Second Stage. Senator Frances Fitzgerald: I ask the Leader if it is intended the House will sit next week. He might clarify the matter at the end of business today. There are many important issues we should discuss when we next meet. The trade unions made it clear again yesterday that they plan to engage in industrial action, while almost 16,000 families presented a petition to the Taoiseach urging the Government not to deliver yet another child unfriendly budget. It appears there is a danger that the Houses will be sidelined in the debate on the public finances. It is critical, therefore, that we have an opportunity to air our views in the House on the critical decisions that will have to be taken before the next budget. 391 Order of 22 October 2009. Business Senator Jerry Buttimer: Hear, hear. Senator Frances Fitzgerald: Will the Leader ensure that debate will take place next week? I raise with the Leader the extraordinary story on the front page of the Irish Examiner today that 73 bags of heroin were found in a jail cell in Limerick Prison. A man who had been convicted of murder was found to have 73 ready for sale bags of heroin when his cell was searched. What happened to the policy of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of having drugs free prisons? Where are the resources? What is the explanation for this? The Minister must come into the House to explain this extraordinary story. He could usefully come into the House to deal with these issues next week. Given the discussion we had yesterday on Seanad reform and the need to address critical and topical issues, I ask the Leader to ensure that debate will take place next week. Senator Joe O’Toole: I am glad the Government has taken on board the points Senator MacSharry and I have been making here in recent weeks about the importance of getting the social partners around the table in Government Buildings. It is important to recognise what is going on. I know that Members on this and the opposite side of the House will be disappointed by talk of strike action and agitation, etc. but I would like them to recognise that when they walked into the meeting two days ago, IBEC, the representatives of the six banks and all the others who had created the mess in which the country finds itself sat down at the table and, at a time when we all agree we must make our contribution, looked across at the workers and trade unionists and the representatives of the community and voluntary pillar and told the representatives of the community and voluntary pillar that they were living on social welfare and that they should take cuts. They then told workers, those in the public sector in particular, that they should also take cuts. It may be necessary to do this but I want people to understand that those who created this crisis and were funded by the six banks have made no offer to come up to the plate and do their bit. One can understand, therefore, the frustration of the trade union leadership and workers. They had nothing to do with creating the problem but are already paying the price. They are now being asked to pay even more. I am merely asking that people understand this fact. We will see what happens next month. It is my fervent wish that there will not be any strikes. However, I hope pressure will be exerted on IBEC and the people it represents to step up to the plate. As well as apologising for what they did, I hope they will also indicate what more they can do. Senator Alex White: I am extremely disappointed that the Government appears to have lost out on the opportunity afforded to it when its representatives met the social partners — I believe they are still referred to in this way but the title may now be something of a misnomer — to engage in any real or meaningful discussion, particularly with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. The Government’s current line is, “We have to do what we have to do”. Such an approach does not provide a basis for seeking consensus across society in respect of the difficult situation we face and the undoubtedly serious measures that must be taken. It is simply not good enough that the Government puts out three figures as comprising the \4 billion in savings that need to be made and then announces that this is the way it must be. There will be no consensus in respect of, buy-in to or support across society for this type of dictatorial approach with regard to what is going to happen in the next couple of months. I appeal to the Leader to do what he can, however minimal that might be, to persuade the Government and the Minister for Finance not to take this kind of approach or attitude towards the former social partners. I also urge the Leader to convince the Minister for Finance to use the opportunity that will present itself in the coming weeks to enter discussions with the trade union movement and put it up to its members to contemplate those areas — be they in the public service or elsewhere 392 Order of 22 October 2009. Business — where radical change must occur and invite them to come forward with proposals. I do not know if that is the basis on which the Government wishes to have the discussion on this matter. However, simply announcing a position at this stage will not work. I wish to comment briefly on the issues which exercised Members yesterday. I listened to the proceedings on the radio in my car and what I heard was quite bleak. It pains me to say it. Senator David Norris: We missed the Senator. Senator Alex White: Over and over again, Members were exploding with indignation. I include in that the Senator who has just—— Senator Paschal Donohoe: Exploded. Senator Alex White: Yes. Senator David Norris: If that was an explosion—— An Cathaoirleach: Members should cease interrupting. There should not be a repeat of what occurred yesterday. Senator Alex White: There is a serious point to be made in respect of this matter. It was stated on the radio a few moments ago that in the eyes of many members of the public, the show was over for the Seanad. It may seem I am adopting a holier-than-thou attitude. However, I accept that I am some- times not behind the door in interrupting other Members. Senator Terry Leyden: Why was the Senator not present yesterday? Senator Alex White: Members of Parliament should have a better sense of what—— Senator Terry Leyden: The Senator should have been here. Senator Alex White: This is another example of that to which I am referring. An Cathaoirleach: Senator Leyden should not interrupt. This type of behaviour marked yesterday’s proceedings. Senator Alex White: People who have been Members of Parliament for 20 years or more do not appear to be able to act with a basic level of decorum. Senator Paschal Donohoe: At least we were here. Senator Frances Fitzgerald: Yes, we were. A Senator: Please allow the Senator to finish.