WTH is going on with peace in the Middle East? Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer on Israel, the UAE and Bahrain Episode #71 | September 29, 2020 | Danielle Pletka, Marc Thiessen, and Amb. Ron Dermer Danielle Pletka: Hi, I'm Danielle Pletka. Marc Thiessen: And I'm Marc Thiessen. Danielle Pletka: he Hell Is Going On? Marc, what the hell is going on? Marc Thiessen: Peace in the Middle East! Danielle Pletka: God I never thought we'd have this podcast. Marc Thiessen: Who would ever believe we'd have a podcast on peace in the Middle East? Danielle Pletka: It really is ridiculous. People always ask me, "So why did you get into the Middle East as a region of study?" And I always say because it's a gift that keeps on giving. The problems there will never be solved. But in fact, it shows, sometimes they get solved. Marc Thiessen: Absolutely they do. First of all, just for a housekeeping note, this is going to be the first of two podcasts on this subject because we have today the Israeli ambassador, Ron Dermer who's joining us and then on the next episode we have the ambassadors of Bahrain and the UAE who are going to join us. So we have the three ambassadors from three countries that have reached this historic deal and it's going to be a pair of epic podcasts. Danielle Pletka: So, you know, there's been a lot of arguing because in Washington of course even peace in the Middle East isn't something that people can agree is a good thing, at least not when Donald Trump is involved. But I would add, second only to Bibi Netanyahu being involved- Marc Thiessen: You are not exaggerating because Nancy Pelosi's response was, "This is a distraction from the COVID pandemic." I mean how deep must your Trump derangement be to have literally the most significant peace deals, two in a quarter-century in the Middle East, and oh it's just a distraction. Danielle Pletka: Well, I will give credit to Vice President Biden who said something much more gracious in response but in fact, that graciousness didn't trickle down because 2 what I have now heard repeatedly is "Well, just goes to show you, Israel really doesn't care about democracy, backing all of these dictatorships in the Middle East." And it's like, I'm sorry, what? Wait, a second, what? Is that Israel's fault? A and B, is peace not better than war? Is peace not better than terrorism? Danielle Pletka: Look I will be the first to say that I think the notion of a president being elected and then putting his son-in-law who has previously only dealt with real estate in charge of the Middle East peace process is, I thought it was completely ridiculous. Marc Thiessen: He did a pretty good job. Danielle Pletka: Look, the proof is in the pudding, and as much as I think many, me included, don't want to give credit for this, you have to. You have to. Look, three leaders, that picture on the White House lawn of those flags together brought a tear to my eye. Marc Thiessen: I loved the image of the foreign ministers of Bahrain and the UAE because there were three copies of each accord. One in English, one in Arabic, and one in Hebrew, and they actually put their names and their signatures on an accord written in Hebrew. That was I thought, just a stunning moment. But I'll tell you the reluctance to give credit is two-fold. Marc Thiessen: One, no one wants to give credit to Donald Trump for anything. But two, it's a repudiation of the foreign policy establishment's view of how you deal with the Middle East for decades. We were told you have to go through Ramallah. There's not ever going to be a separate peace with the Arabs. There has to be Palestinian peace first. We were told you can't move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. If you do that's going to be provocative. Marc Thiessen: We were told that President Trump is going to destabilize the whole region by recognizing Israeli sovereignty of the Golan Heights. All of the conventional wisdoms about what the path to peace was in the Middle East have been turned on their heads because the lesson of this is, this is something that Donald Rumsfeld taught me years ago, weakness is provocative and strength is the best way toward peace. Danielle Pletka: Osama Bin Laden said something about the strong horse as well, not just Don Rumsfeld. Danielle Pletka: I'll tell you who else deserves credit for this, although not in the way people are going to think and that's Barack Obama. Because I think that Obama scared the Arab world so much with the JCPOA, the Iran deal. Scared them so much that the United States was going to turn it's back on the region and they recognized that they needed to forge new alliances. They recognized that the world wasn't always going to look the way it did for the last 40 years and maybe they ought to do something about it. Danielle Pletka: And if Barack Obama hadn't made that craptastic deal with the ayatollahs in Tehran, I think we'd still all be dancing the two-step around each other. It really AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE | 1789 Massachusetts Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20036 | 202.862.5800 | aei.org 3 was a wake-up call to them. Not in a good way but you know, I will give him credit, I think they wanted to take a new approach to the challenges that we face in the Middle East. The problem was that they took the wrong approach. Marc Thiessen: They inadvertently helped peace along. The decision by President Trump to pull out of Syria, the decision by President Trump to start pulling back some troops from Iraq, sent a signal, this is a theory, that sent a signal to the Arab world and the Persian Gulf allies that we're not going to be around to police the region quite as much. Marc Thiessen: And that maybe they needed another ally in the effort to do that. Do you think that Trump's pulling back and saying we're going to end these endless wars and we're going to pull back some of our troops may have contributed to this agreement? Danielle Pletka: Well, I honestly don't know but I'll say this, I don't believe that we keep troops in Iraq for the peace of Saudi Arabia or the United Arab Emirates and I don't believe that we keep troops in Syria for the peace of Israel. You know what my view is. Marc Thiessen: Look you know where I stand on this. We've talked about this many times on the podcast. I was against the withdrawal from Syria. I'm against the withdrawal from Afghanistan. I'm against withdrawing troops from Iraq. We should be keeping them there. They're at such low levels now that the added value of having a small deployment in those countries is huge but there's the famous Don Rumsfeld, the big mistakes we made in Iraq- Danielle Pletka: The second Don Rumsfeld reference in one podcast. Marc Thiessen: I know, I know. But one of the mistakes we made was that he famously said that at some point you got to take your hand off the bicycle seat. And we took the hand off the bicycle seat too soon in Iraq, but maybe Saudi Arabia and the UAE starting realizing they had to pedal on their own a little bit. And I'm not saying that justifies the actions. I'm just saying it might have been an unintended effect an intended effect, I don't know, but it might have had a role. Danielle Pletka: Well, it may have played a role. It may have been the negative example that the JCPOA was also to these guys. No matter what- Marc Thiessen: In other words, American bungling made this possible. Danielle Pletka: Well you know Churchill did say something about that. But anyway, listen we've had a terrific conversation with Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer. He has worked with Bibi Netanyahu for many, many years but since 2013 he has been the Israeli ambassador to the United States. This is actually his last year of service, he's going to head home to Israel after a very long term and some terrific work. And I have to say, he's really, really leaving on a high note. Enjoy the conversation. Marc Thiessen: Ambassador Dermer welcome to the podcast. Amb. Ron Dermer: Great to be with you, Marc. AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE | 1789 Massachusetts Ave, NW, Washington, DC 20036 | 202.862.5800 | aei.org 4 Marc Thiessen: So the first Israeli-Arab peace agreement was 40 years ago. The second was 26 years ago and then nothing happened for a quarter-century and all of a sudden we have two in a matter of weeks. What happened? Amb. Ron Dermer: Well, I'm glad you're talking about the historic significance of this because you right, it is the first time in a quarter-century and we waited 26 years between peace treaty number two and number three and 29 days between three and four. And I think it speaks to a shift, a strategic shift in the region and you can see it Marc in the way that countries and people, governments and people, I should say, in the region have responded to this peace.