1 APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency Presented by Joseph L. LaFleur, Director Pennsylvania Lottery Presented by Secretary Rhodes Secretary of Revenue Eileen McNulty Stenographic transcript of meeting held the Finance Building and Hearing Room 140, the Main Capitol, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Wednesday March 10, 1993 At 10:10 o'clock a.m. EMBERS OF THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE: DWIGHT EVANS, Chairman GORDON LINTON, Vice Chairman RICHARD KASUNIC, Subc. Chairman of Capitol Budget JOSEPH BATTISTO, Subc. Chairman on Education BABETTE JOSEPHS, Subc. Chairman on Health/Welfare LEO TRICH, Secretary JOSEPH PITTS, Minority Chairman ALVIN C. BUSH, Min. Subc. Chairman, Capitol Budget PATRICK FLEAGLE, Min. Subc. Chairman on Education DAVID G. ARGALL, Min. Subc. Chairman, Health/Welfare HOLBERT ASSOCIATES DEBRA ROSE-KEENAN 2611 Doehne Road Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17110 HOLBERT ASSOCIATES \ r (717) 540-9669 \ 2 LAJORITY MEMBERS REPRESENTATIVE ANDREW CARN REPRESENTATIVE ANTHONY DELUCA REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL GRUITZA REPRESENTATIVE EDWARD HALUSKA REPRESENTATIVE STANLEY JAROLIN REPRESENTATIVE FRANK LAGROTTA REPRESENTATIVE KEITH MCCALL REPRESENTATIVE KEITH MCCALL REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD OLASZ REPRESENTATIVE JOSEPH PRESTON REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAM ROBINSON REPRESENTATIVE EDWARD STABACK REPRESENTATIVE STEPHEN STETLER REPRESENTATIVE THOMAS TANGRETTI REPRESENTATIVE JOHN WOZNIAK MINORITY MEMBERS REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAM ADOLPH, JR. REPRESENTATIVE THERESA E. BROWN REPRESENTATIVE RAYMOND BUNT, JR. REPRESENTATIVE ELAINE FARMER REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT J. FLICK REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE T. KENNEY, JR. REPRESENTATIVE JERE W. SCHULER REPRESENTATIVE PAUL SEMMEL HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 3 CONTENTS iUEST SPEAKER PRESENTATION Foseph L. LaFleur 4 iecretary Rhodes 52 iecretary McNulty 52 HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 4 CHAIRMAN EVANS: What I would like to do is reconvene the House Appropriations Committee meeting from ;he tour that was excellent this morning, in a sense. And I think, real quick, if I can, start »ff, Joe, any questions that you want to ask? CHAIRMAN PITTS: No, no. CHAIRMAN EVANS: Are there any questions? 'here was one question raised by Representative Steve tetler, you were starting to ask about the complement ssue and the 123 employees. What were you starting to say? DIRECTOR LAFLEUR: He had asked in what reas had those cuts from 129 down to where we are now, aken place. He said, were they in planning or training r were they in operations? And my response to him was that there were a ouple people in all of those areas. Example. You saw hat computer system. That is the largest local area etwork of micro computers in state government ownstairs. There is about 55 computers in that micro etwork. When the furloughs took place in state overnment in the last 15, 16 months, we lost our only omputer programming analyst to run that system. So all I ave left is operator individuals. HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 5 So you are making me a little nervous, lonestly, when you are asking me about the update [uestions and the softwear maintenance questions. I lost :hat position. That was cut out. This is a small agency. I am not :omplaining, but I am just trying to give you the ixplanation. So I had to cut either in program delivery nd field staff and when the counties call, we don't ever ay no to them. Hey, we need help, there is a flood or omething. So I cut out headquarter staff. I had to ake those decisions. The agency has three field offices, e have storage warehouses at Indiantown Gap and the State ire Academy, besides what we maintain in this building. We have one facility manager. That is nother position that I cut out when we had to do the urloughs. We no longer have a facility manager for any f our facilities statewide. They took care of our state ield mobile command posts and everything else. So those are the kinds of positions that we ut out, in answer to his question. CHAIRMAN EVANS: One thing, the 911 mission, will kind of piggyback on what Leo was just asking. My understanding, the plans are to be HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 6 iubmitted to you under Act 78. How many have been ipproved? How many do you expect? How many more do you ixpect to be submitted and approved over the next three rears? And has PEMA run into any problems with mplementation of Act 78? DIRECTOR LAFLEUR: The 911 program has been real fast effort, because there were quite a number of ounties and first, second and third class cities that had 11, Philadelphia being a good example, who were already n line. So when the law was passed in 1990, Act 78, s you say, a lot of people were ready to come in with heir regulatory requests. We have processed about 32 county and first, econd and third class requests. The -- we expect that ost of them are going to come in over the next two ears. The law required that every three years here had to be a review of the 911 centers and an audit. I am very concerned that when 1994 comes round and we have to start the audit and review process, e are going to be in some difficulty. We had requested staff and because of the tate budget situation the last couple of years, the HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 7 igency has been cutting, not getting, additional staff. So I expect that that mission is going to ontinue. The other 35 or so are going to come on line, nd the audits have to begin in 1994. What is the scope of that program? hiladelphia being the largest, probably $5 or $6 million n revenue per year is now going into Philadelphia from 11 line-user charges, that is not any longer a burden, if ou will, on the taxpayer in a direct sense. That program statewide has had $40 million f line-user charges, anywhere from 63 cents per line per onth up to $1.50 per line per month within the parameters f what the law had provided for. So it has been a tremendous boost to the mergency services. I can't tell you how pleased they are tatewide because of better communications equipment and ore professional dispatching. CHAIRMAN EVANS: Do you have any ecommendations for legislative changes to improve Act 8? DIRECTOR LAFLEUR: We are still in the first wo years, and I always hesitate to make changes because ome of the nuances that you folks put into those laws are here for a reason. And they don't become manifested ntil the third or fourth year down the road. HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 8 I think perhaps the only decision that has o be made is, do you want the state to fund the program? 'hat is, out of taxpayers' funds. And the Governor has asked that this agency iave two staff people to run the programs and do the udits. Mr. Keen is the Deputy Director of the gency, the only engineer I had in the agency when the rogram became on-line. He just happened to be a radio roadcast and telephone engineer. So he has been working the program all by imself. That is a heck of a way to lose your deputy and ave nobody working with you. So I would say, either we get some ssistance, or that you amend the law and have one cent ut of every county's rate, or something, come to the tate to fund those staffs if you want to do a user fee. r you can do the couple people that we asked for out of he General Government Appropriations this year. That would be the only comment. The PUC harges their own rates. So they have hired seven ngineers to run this program for the rate-base work that hey have to do. CHAIRMAN EVANS: The issue that was raised arlier by Dave and Keith McCall, the Volunteer Loan HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 9 ssistance Program, it is my understanding, there appears o be a 13, 16-month backlog on application for loans in he Volunteer Loan Assistance Program. What has PEMA done or tried to do in order o make the loan approval process more efficient? And hat recommendations do you have for the Legislature elative to the loan program? DIRECTOR LAFLEUR: This problem really eveloped about two-and-a-half years ago. It developed or a couple of reasons. First of all, the Legislature changed the aw and increased the rates for the loans that could be eceived. With me today is John Simon who is the Fire ommissioner. And he can tell you about those limits. But, for example, the limit went up on a iece of aerial apparatus. You know, we are building aller and taller buildings all over, to $150,000 that hey could get from the state in the 2 percent loan rogram. We now have to look at these loans very arefully. It is a bank operation. The total Volunteer oan Assistance Program is now a $120 million dollar rogram. We have four employees; fiscal text, clerk HOLBERT ASSOCIATES (717) 540-9669 10 .ypists in state government, civil service ilassif ications, who are trying to keep up with that. Secondly, the requirement for loans or the equest for loans really went up. Because as the economy as been going down, contributions to fire departments ave been very low. So they are looking for other additional evenue sources. My concern was that it started to become a olitical football. And we were really subject to, well, s it or isn't it? Or who should fund it? And we went to the budget office and said, e can't get these loans out.