House of Commons Transport Committee Search and Rescue Eighth Report of Session 2004–05 Volume II Oral and written evidence Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 23 March 2005 HC 322-II Published on 7 June 2005 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £14.50 The Transport Committee The Transport Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the expenditure, administration, and policy of the Department for Transport and its associated public bodies. Current membership Mrs Gwyneth Dunwoody MP (Labour, Crewe) (Chairman) Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson MP (Democratic Unionist, Lagan Valley) Mr Brian H. Donohoe MP (Labour, Cunninghame South) Clive Efford MP (Labour, Eltham) Mrs Louise Ellman MP (Labour/Co-operative, Liverpool Riverside) Ian Lucas MP (Labour, Wrexham) Miss Anne McIntosh MP (Conservative, Vale of York) Mr Paul Marsden MP (Liberal Democrat, Shrewsbury and Atcham) Mr John Randall MP (Conservative, Uxbridge) Mr George Stevenson MP (Labour, Stoke-on-Trent South) Mr Graham Stringer MP (Labour, Manchester Blackley) Powers The Committee is one of the departmental select committees, the powers of which are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 152. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at www.parliament.uk/transcom. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Eve Samson (Clerk), David Bates (Second Clerk), Clare Maltby (Committee Specialist), Philippa Carling (Inquiry Manager), Miss Frances Allingham (Committee Assistant), Miss Michelle Edney (Secretary), Henry Ayi-Hyde (Senior Office Clerk) and James O’Sullivan (Sandwich Student). All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Transport Committee, House of Commons, 7 Millbank, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 6263; the Committee’s email address is [email protected] Witnesses Wednesday 9 February 2005 Page Mr Alan Riddet, Director of Community Safety, Lincolnshire County Council, Chief Fire Officers' Association Ev 1 Dr Anthony S G Jones MBE, Vice Chairman and Ms Penelope Brockman, Treasurer, Mountain Rescue – England and Wales, Mr Adrian Edwards, Acting Chairman and Ms Margaret Bennett, Secretary, Association of Lowland Search and Rescue (ALSAR) and Mr Robert Bradley, UK Lowland Search Institute Ev 7 Mr Jon Gifford, Chairman of the Board of Trustees and Mr Mark Danson-Hatcher, Deputy Chairman of the Technical Assessment Panel, National Coastwatch Institution Ev 14 Wednesday 2 March 2005 Mr Andrew Freemantle MBE, Chief Executive, and Mr Michael Vlasto, Operations Director, Royal National Lifeboat Institution Ev 19 Mr Nick Radiven, National Officer, Mr Dave Clempson, Maritime and Coastguard Agency Group President, and Mr Steve Quinn, PCS Liaison Officer for Scotland and MCA Watch Manager (MRCC Aberdeen), Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS); and Mr Allan Graveson, Senior National Secretary, and Mr Andrew Linington, Head of Communications, NUMAST Ev 27 Captain Stephen Bligh, Chief Executive, and Mr John Astbury, Operations Director and Chief Coastguard, Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) Ev 34 Mr David Jamieson MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport; Phil Hope MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Office of the Deputy Prime Minister; and Fiona Mactaggart MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office Ev 40 List of written evidence SAR Page 01 UK Lowland Search Institute Ev 51 02 Chief Fire Officers Association Ev 53 03 Mountain Rescue Committee of Scotland Ev 54 07 Kevin Hutchens, Labour Party Spokesperson for Moray Ev 55 08 Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) Ev 57 08A Supplementary memorandum by PCS Ev 84 09 Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) Ev 59 10 NUMAST Ev 64 11 Mountain Rescue – England and Wales Ev 67 11A Supplementary memorandum by Mountain Rescue – England and Wales Ev 87 12 Department for Transport and Maritime and Coastguard Agency Ev 71 12A Supplementary memorandum by Maritime and Coastguard Agency Ev 96 12B Supplementary memorandum by the Department for Transport Ev 97 13 Secretariat of the UK Search and Rescue Strategic Committee Ev 78 14 National Coastwatch Institution Ev 80 14A Supplementary memorandum by the National Coastwatch Institution Ev 100 14B Supplementary memorandum by the National Coastwatch Institution Ev 104 15 Association of Lowland Search and Rescue (ALSAR) Ev 82 16 Office of the Deputy Prime Minister Ev 104 Transport Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Transport Committee on Wednesday 9 February 2005 Members present: Mrs Gwyneth Dunwoody, in the Chair Mr JeVrey M Donaldson Miss Anne McIntosh Mrs Louise Ellman Mr Graham Stringer Ian Lucas Witness: Mr Alan Riddet, Director ofCommunity Safety,Lincolnshire County Council, ChiefFire O Ycers’ Association, examined. Chairman: Good afternoon. Before we begin, we players, and the Operators’ Group especially, which have a little bit ofhousekeeping to performand I brings in those who provide service more than should perhaps tell you that the rules are fairly anything else, that has provided a specific focus to straightforward, the microphone in front of you will move things on; especially as, with a relatively small record your voice but not project your voice; so I am group ofpeople, probably a maximum of12, when going to have to ask you to speak up. I have never they meet they can get things achieved. That is heard a fire oYcer who could not actually raise his a significant diVerence from the previous voice when required. Any member having an interest arrangements when up to 50 people could be in a to declare? Mr Lucas? meeting. I think everybody here will have Ian Lucas: Member ofAmicus and member ofthe experienced that nothing happens when 50 people sit all-party mountain rescue group. round a table, apart from a lot of talking. So it is Chairman: Gwyneth Dunwoody, member of extremely positive and certainly as soon as the ASLEF Strategic Committee was formed some group work Mrs Ellman: Member ofthe Transport and General was actually put in place and that has resulted in the Workers’ Union. UK Search and Rescue Handbook which was the first Chairman: Miss McIntosh, no interest. Mr Stringer? document ofits kind that gave a holistic picture of Mr Stringer: I am a member ofAmicus. the arrangements for search and rescue. A small group ofus, including me, were involved in that, so Q1 Chairman: Would you be kind enough to identify I would say it was good, would I not? However, yourselfforour records? alongside that we were also asked to look at the Mr Riddet: Yes, Madam Chairman. My name is search and rescue helicopter arrangements within Alan Riddet, I am ChiefFire O Ycer ofthe the UK. Lincolnshire Fire and Rescue Service, but I represent the ChiefFire O Ycer’s Association for the UK on maritime issues. Q4 Chairman: Including Ministry ofDefence involvement? Q2 Chairman: Thank you very much for coming. Mr Riddet: All ofthat provision, which is currently Did you have something you wanted to say on RAF, Royal Navy and Maritime and Coastguard behalfofchieffire o Ycers before we begin, or may Agency directly contracted helicopters. We were not we go straight to questions? reviewing how that should be provided, but we did Mr Riddet: Simply that I welcome this opportunity review positioning and rules ofengagement, in other to come before you and give our experiences and words how quickly they should get to the scene, how notions ofUK search and rescue (SAR). Our quickly they should be mobilised. That again was experience in recent years especially has been extremely helpful and I believe has informed some of particularly positive in this respect. the future work within the agency about provision of new helicopters and the capacity and capability of Q3 Chairman: That is very helpful. May I ask you a that equipment and who should actually operate bit about the present structures, the current search them. I understand that work has a deal more detail and rescue structure; also the current SAR Strategic to go through, but it is extremely important to Committee and the Operators’ Group? How identify the overall need and capabilities which eVective are they? would certainly be ofvery great interest to the Chief Mr Riddet: May I compare them more with the Fire OYcers’ Association. All in all, we have found previous arrangements when the UK Search and that the Search and Rescue Operators’ Committee Rescue Committee was quite a large group with a has been like the engine room to drive improvement whole range ofinterests, some very marginal I would within the UK SAR organisation which has no say? When it was reformed as the Strategic formal structure and I would suggest that may be its Committee, which is a small group ofvery key weakness. Ev 2 Transport Committee: Evidence 9 February 2005 Mr Alan Riddet Q5 Chairman: I was going to ask you. How clear Mr Riddet: No, I do not believe there are too do you think it is to all ofthe search and rescue many organisations. Certainly I believe that the agencies, that the Department for Transport has reorganisation of the search and rescue groups has responsibility for search and rescue? the focus correct, so the diVerent interests are Mr Riddet: I do not think that is particularly clear at focused together and are brought through the all. Indeed a number ofagencies are not actually that Operators’ Committee to the Strategic Committee. clear that they have a search and rescue input. Really I would suggest a Strategic Committee for all should be more one offacilitation,ofengagement. Q6 Chairman: Now let us get this clear. You are saying that ofthe approximately 50 that you were Q11 Chairman: When you have identified the talking about before—we will take that as a ballpark problem, to whom do you pass that information, if number—some ofthem have a di Verent view of you do not have the power to remedy it yourself? themselves.