Special Inquiry into St Andrew's Hostel, Katanning (including St Christopher's Hostel, Northam) Held at: Courtroom 4, Level 18, 111 St Georges Terrace, Perth Friday, 25 May 2012 at 10.06am (Day 33) Before: The Hon Peter Blaxell .25/5/2012 (33) 3452 Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation 1 HIS HONOUR: We will take new appearances. We have 2 Mr Bevilacqua for Bishop Challen; is that right? 3 4 MR BEVILACQUA: Yes. If it pleases your Honour, I seek 5 leave to represent Bishop Challen. 6 7 HIS HONOUR: Certainly. Mr Rafferty, you are back again 8 for Mr Philpott? 9 10 MR RAFFERTY: I am, sir. Mr Philpott, yes. 11 12 HIS HONOUR: Now, Mr Urquhart? 13 14 MR URQUHART: The first witness will in fact be Michael 15 Boyd Challen. I call him now. Thank you. 16 17 <MICHAEL BOYD CHALLEN, sworn: 18 19 <EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR URQUHART: 20 21 MR URQUHART: Q. How old are you? 22 A. I beg your pardon? 23 24 Q. How old are you? 25 A. My hearing is not that brilliant. 26 27 Q. Certainly. I will speak up. 28 A. Eighty years minus two days. 29 30 Q. You reside in the Perth Metropolitan area? 31 A. Yes. North Fremantle. 32 33 Q. You are a bishop with the Anglican Church; is that 34 right? 35 A. Retired, but still a bishop. 36 37 Q. You still go by the title of 'Bishop'; is that 38 correct? 39 A. Correct. 40 41 Q. When did you become a clergyman with the Anglican 42 Church? 43 A. In 1957. 44 45 Q. Could we just outline your progression through the 46 ranks, as it were? You started off as - what was the title 47 then? .25/5/2012 (33) 3453 M B CHALLEN x (Mr Urquhart) Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation 1 A. My first two years I was an assistant curate in the 2 Parish of North Essendon in Melbourne. Then I moved to 3 what was called the Group Ministry in the inner suburbs of 4 Melbourne, being a priest in charge of the suburb North 5 Fitzroy. Subsequently I became the leader of the team for 6 10 parishes known as the Melbourne God Centre later called 7 the Anglican Inner City Ministry. I was there until 1970. 8 When the Archbishop of Perth, the former Bishop in 9 Melbourne, Geoffrey Sambell, appointed me as a director of 10 the mission in this dioceses. I had that position, in 11 effect, until I became a Bishop in 1978. 12 13 I had other appointments, as you might expect, because 14 the church is a bit short of labour, such as Chair of field 15 services of Anglican health and welfare services, chair of 16 social responsibilities commission being responsible for 17 projects to do with urban Aboriginals in Perth and so on - 18 ecumenical affairs was another. 19 20 Q. When was it that you finally retired? 21 A. I retired in June 1999, coming back to Perth in 22 January 2000. Obviously I've left something out. That is 23 to say - I apologise for that - I became the executive 24 director of the Brotherhood of St Lawrence back in 25 Melbourne in 1990, and was in that position until I 26 retired, as I just said. 27 28 Q. Is it the case that you participated in an interview 29 with Inquiry investigators earlier this month on 2 May? 30 A. I had two members of the staff interview me. 31 32 Q. Now, Bishop, I am going to ask you some questions that 33 you would expect about this particular matter. Was it the 34 case that -- 35 A. Which matter? 36 37 Q. This matter. 38 A. This matter? 39 40 Q. Yes, this matter regarding Roy Wenlock. 41 A. Well, you didn't say that. 42 43 Q. I thought you might have worked out that that is what 44 this matter is all about. That is why you have been 45 summonsed today. 46 A. Because the terms of reference are wider than -- 47 .25/5/2012 (33) 3454 M B CHALLEN x (Mr Urquhart) Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation 1 Q. I appreciate that. We are of the view that you may be 2 able to provide some information in regard to the specific 3 matter of Roy Wenlock? 4 A. Yes, I can. 5 6 Q. Bishop, indeed, if you have any other information that 7 falls within our terms of reference we would be grateful to 8 hear from you in that regard as well? 9 A. Right. 10 11 Q. For the moment we will stay with Mr Wenlock. The 12 Anglican Church, was that responsible for the management of 13 the St Christopher's Hostel, Northam? 14 A. The Anglican Church in Foulden, the hostel in Northam, 15 was in ownership position for some time and certainly was 16 responsible for its management when I became the chair. 17 18 Q. It, therefore, still had responsibility for its 19 management of the enactment of an Act called the Country 20 High School Hostel's Authority Act? 21 A. Which date was? 22 23 Q. That was 1960? 24 A. Yes. 25 26 Q. Was it your understanding that the Authority - and 27 from now on instead of saying 'the Country High School 28 Hostels Authority' I will just simply refer to it as 'the 29 Authority', and also the St Christopher's Board of 30 Management' as simply 'the board'. Okay? 31 A. Right. Understood. 32 33 Q. Was it your understanding that the Authority delegated 34 the responsibilities for the management of St Christopher's 35 to the board? 36 A. I want to preface my remarks and come back to that. 37 38 Q. Certainly. 39 A. To say the then Archbishop of Perth, Archbishop 40 Sambell, asked me to step in and be what he then called the 41 country Archdeacon for '12 months', he said. In fact, it 42 ended up being two-and-a-half years. The fact that I was 43 only to be a fill-in affected much of my involvement, as 44 you might appreciate. When I was appointed as chairman 45 and, indeed, later on a member of the Authority, I was not 46 given any advice either by the Authority or by the dioceses 47 about the relationship and the respective areas of .25/5/2012 (33) 3455 M B CHALLEN x (Mr Urquhart) Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation 1 responsibilities and measure of authority. 2 3 Q. I was going to ask you about that. I am glad you have 4 clarified that now. How was the chairman of the board 5 nominated? As I understand it, sir, the Anglican Church 6 still had responsibility for appointing members of the 7 board once you became chairman; is that your understanding? 8 A. Historically it would apply, at my time, the so-called 9 archdeacon of Northam, becomes archdeacon of the country, 10 which was my title, was automatically the chair of the five 11 hostels that the Anglican Church was responsible for. The 12 board members were appointed by different procedures, if I 13 can explain. The dioceses has an overarching body called 14 the synod. That synod elected two members to the board. 15 The local Parish priest, commonly known as the rector, 16 would be a member ex officio, the principal of relevant 17 high school, a member of local council and the parents were 18 invited to elect two people to be also on the board. The 19 warden, whoever that person was, attended board meetings 20 and could speak but not move motions or vote. 21 22 Q. Can you recall who you took over from? 23 A. Yes, I can. Bishop Dennis Bryant, now deceased. 24 25 Q. Did, as he might have then been, the Reverend Norman 26 Apthorp, did he have any role in the board at or around 27 this time? 28 A. Not in my time. He was a rector of Northam. He was 29 moved, I think it was, to the Parish of Donnelly in Perth. 30 So that Bishop Bryant, who had been the Bishop for the 31 diocese of Kalgoorlie - and that dioceses had asked to 32 merge with the dioceses of Perth - so he lost his 33 appointment as a diocesan for Kalgoorlie and Archbishop 34 Sambell made him the rector of Northam, which was a 35 significant centre, and also archdeacon of Northam. I 36 don't know if you can follow that. Is that clear? 37 38 HIS HONOUR: Q. He was a member of the board because he 39 was archdeacon of Northam; is that right? 40 A. Well, he could have had a double hat, sir. That is to 41 say, as the archdeacon of Northam and also as the rector of 42 St John's of Northam. 43 44 Q. He had gone by the time you started, had he? 45 A. Indeed. He was going to the Parish of Dalkeith, which 46 created a vacancy and Archbishop Sambell asked me to fill 47 in. .25/5/2012 (33) 3456 M B CHALLEN x (Mr Urquhart) Transcript produced by Merrill Corporation 1 2 MR URQUHART: Q. I am going to suggest, Bishop, you were 3 appointed chairman of the board as of March of 1976? 4 A. That's as far as I know. It may have been February.