DÁIL ÉIREANN AN ROGHCHOISTE UM FHORBAIT RÉIGIÚNACH, GNÓTHAÍ TUAITHE, EALAÍONA AGUS GAELTACHT SELECT COMMITTEE ON REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT, RURAL AFFAIRS, ARTS AND THE GAELTACHT Dé Máirt, 5 Iúil 2016 Tuesday, 5 July 2016 The Select Committee met at 5 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT: Deputy Michael Collins, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, Deputy Danny Healy-Rae, Deputy Michael Ring (Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht), Deputy Martin Heydon, Deputy Niamh Smyth. Deputy Heather Humphreys (Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht), Deputy Seán Kyne (Minister of State at the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht), DEPUTY PEADAR TÓIBÍN IN THE CHAIR. 1 Estimates FOR PUBLIC SERVICES 2016 Estimates for Public Services 2016 Vote 33 - Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht (Revised) Chairman: Cuirim fáilte mhór roimh chuile dhuine a tháinig anseo inniu. Is onóir mhór í domsa a bheith mar Chathaoirleach ar an gcoiste seo freisin. Táim ag tnúth le hobair dian a bheith os ár gcomhair as seo amach. I advise everyone that headsets are provided in the committee room with an interpretation service provided by Rannóg an Aistriúcháin. I welcome the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys; the Ministers of State, Deputies Seán Kyne and Michael Ring, and all of their officials. A great team of officials have been brought to educate all of us. The purpose of the meeting is to consider the Department’s Revised Estimate for 2016. I draw everyone’s attention to the draft timetable circulated for the meeting and the fact that there are fixed time limits for each programme. Is the timetable agreed to? Agreed. Briefing material which provides details of the Revised Estimate was circulated to mem- bers. I propose the following arrangements: there will be no opening statements; the Minister will make a brief opening statement prior to our consideration of each programme, in which she should indicate if there are emerging pressures likely to impact on departmental performance or expenditure on each of the programmes in 2016; whether there are concerns about performance or service delivery in particular areas to the extent that there is a possibility that the funding allocated will not be fully spent by year end; the areas involved and the reasons for a possible saving or underspend; and whether reallocation of funds to, from or within the programme has taken place or is contemplated. The issue of administration will be considered under these headings when each of the programme areas has been disposed of or as we deal with each of the programmes. I propose that questions on programmes be taken together, at the end of which the Minister can respond. I will deal with the individual programmes and corresponding subheads under the Vote. The Minister might make a brief opening statement on programme A. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Before the Minister begins, the briefing material sets out expen- diture information. It refers to changes since 2015 and the following percentages are given: 20%, 12%, 19%, 2% and 7%. There was a big jump in the total Estimate from €317 million to €370 million. Would it be possible to get an overview of the total allocation this year and the portents for the future? Chairman: If we proceed in the fashion suggested, the Deputy will have an opportunity to ask his question. Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht (Deputy Heather Humphreys): First, I congratulate the Deputy Peadar Tóibín on being appointed Chairman of the committee. I also congratulate its members and look forward to working positively with all of them and the Chairman. Is mór agam an deis seo a fháil inniu chun Meastúcháin mo Roinne don bhliain seo a phlé. 2 SELECT COMMITTEE ON REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT, RURAL AFFAIRS, Arts AND THE GAELtacht I am very pleased to have the opportunity to outline the priorities of my new Department. To be helpful to members, I have provided everybody with an overview that sets out some of the issues Deputies may wish to raise with me. A full briefing document was also provided. Does the Chairman wish to me to speak on----- Chairman: Programme A, yes. Deputy Heather Humphreys: More than €188 million is being provided in 2016 for the arts, culture and film sector, an increase of 20% on the figure for 2015, with a further €6.158 million being provided by way of a capital carryover. A key driver of the increase in funding for the arts and in cultural expenditure in my Department in 2016 is the ongoing commemorations programme. The allocation in 2016 is almost €49 million, including €31 million in capital and €18 million in current expenditure. The programme is ongoing, but the main commemorative events of the Easter period are now concluded. The people of Ireland embraced the opportunity to commemorate the events of 100 years ago, and in doing so they made them a great success. I look forward to the remainder of the year’s activities. The capital allocation of almost €31 million for commemorations, supplemented by €6.158 million in carryover from 2015, has provided for a number of flagship projects or permanent reminders that are being progressed this year, including the interpretive exhibition in the GPO complex, the tenement museum in Henrietta Street, the refurbishment of Richmond Barracks, where the leaders of the 1916 Rising were held after their surrender, and the new visitor centre at Teach an Phiarsaigh in Rosmuc. Funding for 2016 has also supported the following projects, which form part of the Ireland 2016 commemorative programme: the development of a recital room at the National Concert Hall, as well as the works to the foyer and front of house facilities; and the redevelopment of the National Archives at its Bishop Street headquarters. In addition to this significant investment provided under the commemorations programme for the concert hall and the archives, the major refurbishment of the National Gallery of Ireland continues in 2016, in addition to investment of more than €39 million this year in our national cultural institutions. The important and valuable work of the Arts Council has also been recognised. This is reflected in the 2016 current allocation of more than €60 million, which is an increase of €1.2 million over the 2015 allocation. Funding of €5 million is also provided to meet the anticipated demand in 2016 for the funding of the Cork events centre. Some €5.5 million is provided in 2016 for Culture Ireland, which includes €3 million for “I am Ireland”, or “Mise Éire”, the Cul- ture Ireland international programme that forms part of the Ireland 2016 centenary programme. I am happy to expand on any issues that Deputies would like to raise relating to this programme area. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: The Minister had a carryover of €6.158 million into this year from last year in capital expenditure. Might she explain how that arose? At this stage, what is her estimate: will she spend all the capital under the arts, culture and film subhead this year? Hav- ing a carryover is something to be avoided at all times because, as the Minister knows, when you have a carryover and you go to the Department of Finance looking for more money, they will say, “Well, you did not spend what we gave you last year.” It will use that stick to beat you. The Department got a considerable amount of money this year for the 1916 commemora- tion across a number of subheads and programmes. That is why I hoped we might have a quick debate at the very beginning about the overall allocation to the Department. First, I take it that the Department will not expend as much next year on the decade of commemoration. Second, I am sure that every one of the organisations that benefit, whether it is the likes of the National 3 VOTE 33 - Arts, Heritage AND THE GAELtacht (REVISED) Museum and galleries, the archives, the Arts Council or whatever, is starved for finance. Does the Minister expect to hold the same amount of gross money for the Department’s Vote next year as this Revised Estimate, now she has it? Can we encourage the Minister to make a very strong case to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, that if he can afford it this year he can afford it next year - that the arts, heritage, the Gaeltacht and the islands have been starved of cash for the last five years and that it would be a welcome boost if the Department kept its headline budget for next year at least, because there are many things that need to be done? We have a lot of problems in our country, but probably the most intractable problem we face is areas of high urban deprivation. They seem to be intergenerational. I often wonder why, with all the modern communications and interconnectivity of the world, these areas seem to be stuck in a rut of poverty. When one compares those areas now to areas in post-Famine Ireland that were really poor, they are not self-generating and creating wealth like post-Famine Ireland. Then one has to ask why these areas are not coming forward because they are a lot richer than post-Famine Ireland was. Why are they not progressing like post-Famine people did, either at home or abroad? Was there a much higher cultural and educational value in the great poverty of post-Famine Ireland? Did people have that value of culture and education that maybe is not currently there in the highly deprived areas? Therefore, would we get a great benefit in economic and social terms if we put more money into arts, culture, heritage, language and all the other things of the mind in these highly deprived areas? When one looks at the output in,