LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 9217 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 28 June 2000 The Council met at half-past Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH TING WOO-SHOU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID CHU YU-LIN THE HONOURABLE HO SAI-CHU, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, S.C., J.P. 9218 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE KAI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LUI MING-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING PROF THE HONOURABLE NG CHING-FAI THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD ARCULLI, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE HUI CHEUNG-CHING THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH THE HONOURABLE CHAN KWOK-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN THE HONOURABLE BERNARD CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN WING-CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 9219 DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE GARY CHENG KAI-NAM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE YEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LAU HON-CHUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHOY SO-YUK THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO 9220 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-KIN DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, G.B.M., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION MISS DENISE YUE CHUNG-YEE, J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE ELSIE LEUNG OI-SIE, J.P. THE SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS MR CHAU TAK-HAY, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY MR NICHOLAS NG WING-FUI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT MR DOMINIC WONG SHING-WAH, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOUSING MR JOSEPH WONG WING-PING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 9221 MR LAM WOON-KWONG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE MR STEPHEN IP SHU-KWAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES MR DAVID LAN HONG-TSUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS MRS LILY YAM KWAN PUI-YING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND FOOD DR YEOH ENG-KIONG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY MR LEE SHING-SEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR WORKS MR PATRICK LAU LAI-CHIU, J.P. SECRETARY FOR PLANNING AND LANDS MS MARIA KWAN SIK-NING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES MS EVA CHENG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND BROADCASTING DR EDGAR CHENG WAI-KIN, J.P. HEAD, CENTRAL POLICY UNIT 9222 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG, J.P., SECRETARY GENERAL MR LAW KAM-SANG, J.P., DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 9223 MEMBERS' MOTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Good morning, Honourable Members. Members' motions. Three motions with no legislative effect. I have accepted the recommendations of the House Committee as to the time limits on speeches for the motion debates. The movers of the motions will each have up to 15 minutes for their speeches including their replies, and another five minutes on the amendment. The mover of an amendment will have up to 10 minutes to speak. Other Members will each have up to seven minutes for their speeches. Should anyone go beyond these limits, I will be obliged to stop him. First motion: Vote of no confidence in the Chairman of the Housing Authority and the Director of Housing. VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN THE CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSING AUTHORITY AND THE DIRECTOR OF HOUSING MR FRED LI (in Cantonese): Madam President, I move that the motion, as printed on the Agenda, be passed. Last Saturday afternoon, Ms Rosanna WONG announced her resignation from the chairmanship of the Housing Authority (HA). The Democratic Party holds her courageous decision in esteem and at the same time, believes that despite the mistakes made during her seven years of chairmanship in the HA, she should still merit some credits. However, I believe that today's debate will not be rendered meaningless simply by Ms Rosanna WONG's resignation, because the reason for putting forth this motion of no confidence is hardly to pick at or attack deliberately either Ms Rosanna WONG or Mr Tony MILLER. The purpose is rather to make use of this opportune time when the scandals of housing production prop up one after another — totalling nine, as we counted them — so that our society may discuss the introduction of a new modern culture of political accountability, under which, be it in the public or private sector, the head of a department which on the whole has committed mistakes or dereliction of duties should be made accountable to the general public and be held responsible for all the blunders. 9224 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 In the past two years, there have been a series of scandals connected with the construction of public housing and Home Ownership Scheme (HOS) flats, which I now briefly list below: - January 1999 – short piles for the shopping mall and carpark in Phase IV, Area 30, Tung Chung; - March 1999 – sub-standard piles for three public housing blocks in Phase I, Area 30, Tung Chung; - September 1999 – short piles for three blocks in Tin Chung Court, Tin Shui Wai; - October 1999 – short piles for five HOS blocks in Phase III Redevelopment, Yau Tong; - November 1999 – uneven ground settlement in Phase II, Tin Fu Court, Tin Shui Wai; - January this year – serious problem of short piles necessitated the demolition and reconstruction of two blocks in Yuen Chau Kok, Sha Tin, which had already been built up to some 30 storeys; - April this year – corruption and jerry-built housing in Phase II Redevelopment, Shek Yam Estate; - Last month – use of sub-standard construction materials in Phase III, Area 30, Tung Chung; and - Last week and the most recent case – uneven ground settlement in Phase I, Tin Fu Court, Tin Shui Wai, as a result of which the escalators could not be fitted in. It is learned that of the owners of the 800 sold flats, 300 have already forfeited their deposit. I cannot foretell whether apart from the nine cases mentioned just now, more would be coming, but one thing for sure is that the top level of both the HA and the Housing Department (HD) genuinely did not learn the lesson, otherwise the scandals of short piles as well as inferior workmanship and construction materials would not have taken place within the same area in Tung Chung in just LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 28 June 2000 9225 a matter of two years. Hence, at a time when there are criticisms that my motion of no confidence is "destructive rather than constructive", I wish to stress in particular that it is not me who have dealt a blow to public confidence in the HA. Rather, the confidence crisis has been the sole doing of the HA and the HD themselves. Just last week the Democratic Party conducted an opinion poll. Of the 527 interviewees, 90% considered the problems of short piles and jerry-built housing "serious" and "very serious", with 68% giving the latter rating. At the same time, there were 64% interviewees who supported my motion of no confidence. Furthermore, the opinion poll findings announced by the Apple Daily last Saturday also indicated that 60% of the interviewees favoured the resignation of Ms Rosanna WONG and Mr Tony MILLER. The same day, Ming Pao also announced the findings of its opinion survey, which indicated that 60% of the interviewees considered that Ms Rosanna WONG should resign while 40% considered that Mr Tony MILLER should be subject to penalty. The above three independent surveys have all pointed more or less to the same findings and that is, the majority of the public consider that as the head and member of the management, Ms Rosanna WONG and Mr Tony MILLER should be held responsible for the blunders they have made in the past. The findings also reflect the great difference between the views of the public at large and those of our senior officials.