Queerology 68 Bishop Gene Robinson on the Wisdom of Our Elders MaRhias:( If(you(en0oy(listening(to(4ueerology(then(I need(your(help.(9.re:s(why.(I create( 4ueerology(by(myself(on(a shoestring(budget.(Recording(and(ediPng(eAery(episode(in(my( Pny(closet.(How:s(that for(ironyB(Tha2:s(where(you(come(in.(Dill(you(help(Eeep( 4ueerology(on(the(air(by(supporPng(it FnanciallyB(By(Ppping(as(liRle(as(one(dollar(a month(you(can(help(me(improAe(and(Eeep(making(4ueerology(eAery(weeE.(All(you(haAe( to(do(is(0ump(oAer(to(maRhiasroberts.comIsupport to(make(a pledge(and(listen(away.( MaRhias:( 9.y(friends,(this(is(MaRhias(Roberts(and(you:re(listening(to(4ueerology.(A(podcast on( belief(and(being.(This(is(episode(68.( Gene: NiberaPon(moAements(need(to(understand(how(they(got where(they(are.( MaRhias:( I remember(going(home(for(summer(break(when(I was(an(undergrad,(between(my( freshman(and(sophomore(year.(And(that was(the(Frst summer(that I started(to(wrestle( with(the(idea of,(ODhat if(i2:s(oEay(to(be(gay(and(ChrisPanBO(I mean,(eAen,(ODhat if(i2:s( oEay(to(be(gayBO(And(I started(looEing(eAerywhere(for(resources.(And(one(of(the(Frst resources(I found(was(this(documentary(on(NeRliS(called(For The Bible Tells Me So.(And(I,( liEe(late(at night,(put my(headphones(in(and(pressed(play(on(that documentary(and( watched(so(many(people:s(stories(of(reconciling(of(their(faith,(with(their(seSual( orientaons.( MaRhias:( And(one(of(the(people(that was(prominently(featured(in(that Flm(was(bishop(Mene( Robinson.(At the(Pme(I thought all(of(these(people(were(herePc:s.(I was(liEe,(OThere:s(no( way(these(people(are(actually(ChrisPans.O(And(I had(the(pleasure(to(spend(some(Pme( with(Mene(in(New(TorE(City(a few(weeEs(ago,(and(realiUed(Aery(VuicEly(that he(might actually(be(way(more(ChrisPan(than(I am.(And(he(has(always(been(an(incredible(person,( and():m(so(eScited(to(haAe(him(on(the(podcast today.( MaRhias:( Bishop(Mene(Robinson(is(the(Frst openly(gay(man(to(be(elected(bishop(in(the(high(church( tradiPons(of(ChrisPandom.(9.(was(inAited(in(2009(by(president BaracE(Obama to(giAe( the(inAocaPon(at the(inaugural(ceremonies(at the(Nincoln(Memorial,(and(he(was(elected( bishop(of(the(episcopal(diocese(of(New(Hampshire(on(June(seAenth,(2003(ceremony(to( which(he(had(to(wear(a bullet proof(Aest,(because(of(the(death(threats.( MaRhias:( But more(recently(he(presided(oAer(the(interment of(MaRhew(Shepard:s(ashes(in(the( Dashington(NaPonal(Cathedral(last fall,(and(he:s(the(author(of(two(booEs. In The Eye of The Storm: Swept To The Center By God. And,(God Believes In Love: Straight Talk About Gay Marriage.(Mene(is(currently(the(Aice(president of(religion(at the(ChautauVua InsPtuPon(in(New(TorE,(and(spends(his(Pme(adAocaPng(and(wriPng(for(human(rights(all( oAer(the(globe.( Queerology 68 - Gene Robinson Page 1! of 11! MaRhias:( So,(with(that,(welcome(bacE(to(4ueerology.(De:re(off(to(a great start in(2019,(and(le2:s( 0ust go(ahead(and(diAe(in.(Mene,(hi,(welcome.( Gene: Hi,(and(happy(new(year.( MaRhias:( Happy(new(year.(It's(so(good(to(haAe(you(on(the(podcast today.(ThanE(you.( Gene: ):m(delighted(to(be(here.( MaRhias:( So,(to(start,(this(is(a VuesPon(I asE(eAeryone,(but how(do(you(idenPfyB(And(then(how( would(you(say(that your(faith(has(helped(form(that idenPtyB( Gene: I guess(I would(iniPally(idenPfy(in(a couple(of(ways.(One(would(be(with(my(pronouns(he,( him,(and(his.(And(of(course,(we(Enow(about that and(we(care(about that because(of(our( transgender(brothers(and(sisters.(And(I would(also(idenPfy(as(gay(among(the(many,( many,(many(leRers(that we(are(accumulaPng.(In(terms(of(my(faith(relaPng(to(that,(really( relaPng(to(both(of(those(idenPPes,(with(respect NMBT4IA(and(who(Enows(what new( leRer(we(added(this(morning,(you(Enow,(it comes(out of(my(faith,(the(understanding( that human(beings(are(inFnitely(compleS.( Gene: And(in(our(effort to(make(reality(a bit more(manageable,(we(started(lumping(people(into( categories.(And(I thinE(what we(are(learning,(and(we:Ae(certainly(learned(it I thinE(in(the( NMBT4(community(is(that,(somePmes(stuffing(people(into(boSes(in(which(they(don:t really(Ft does(Aiolence(to(them.(And,(my(faith(tells(me(that,(ODe(don:t want to(do(that.( De(don:t want to(do(Aiolence(to(anyone.O( Gene: I thinE,(for(a long(Pme(that was(because(we(0ust didn:t Enow,(our(consciousness(had(not been(raised(to(a point to(be(more(sensiPAe(to(this,(and(now(there:s(no(eScuse(not to( Enow(it.(And(so,(I thinE(both(with(...(In(terms(of(our(gender(idenPty,(but also(our(idenPty( on(those(many(leRers(that we(use(to(describe(our(community,(I thinE(my(understanding( of(Mod:s(diAersity(and(Mod:s(compleSity,(and(the(compleSity(that Mod(built into(the( creaPon,(it makes(me(care(about those(things.( Gene: I also(...(Tou(Enow,(I guess(I would(also(say(that ...(I mean,(you(Enow,(somePmes(when( ):m(speaking(to(a heteroseSual(audience():ll(ineAitably(get the(VuesPon(liEe,(ODhy(all( those(leRersBO(And,(OSeems(liEe(you(0ust Eeep(adding(to(them.O(And(I always(say,(ODell,( tha2:s(true(actually.O(But I thinE(where(we(are(headed,(I hope,(and(this(would(also(come( out of(my(faith.(I thinE(we:re(headed(to(a place(where(we(understand(that there(are(as( many(seSualiPes,(plural,(as(there(are(human(beings.( Gene: In(the(sense(that no(two(of(us(haAe(had(the(same(history,(emoPonal(history,(a physical( history,(romanPc(history,(seSual(history.(And(in(that sense(each(of(us(is(a uniVue(seSual( being.(So,(It would(be(really(nice(if(we(didn:t haAe(to(use(any(labels,(but as(long(as(we:re( going(to(use(them,(I thinE(we(need(to(Eeep(eSpanding(that list for(as(many(people(as( idenPfying(themselAes(as(being(something(different.( Gene: 9.re:s(what I say(to(that same(heteroseSual(audience(is,(ODhat leRers(should(we(use(for( youBO(NiEe,(OTou:re(not 0ust one(big(blob(of(heteroseSual(energy.(There(has(to(be( Queerology 68 - Gene Robinson Page 2! of 11! diAersity(within(your(community.(So,(what leRers(do(you(want me(to(use(for(youB(Dhat leRers(would(describe(the(Aarious(parts(of(people(who(would(idenPfy(themselAes(as( heteroseSualBO(And(then(I remind(them(that for(the(most part heteroseSual(people(don:t haAe(to(do(that worE.(They(don:t haAe(to(stay(up(late(at night Fguring(that out in(order( to(make(a go(of(it in(the(world.( Gene: And(i2:s(something(that those(of(us(in(the(NMBT4(community(haAing(done(that,(some(of( that worE,(we(actually(might be(helpful(to(them,(in(doing(that worE(for(themselAes.(So,( all(of(that relates(to(my(faith(in(the(sense(that you(Enow,(growing(up(I certainly(was( scared(to(death(that I was(aRracted(to(people(of(the(same(seS,(the(same(gender.(And( was(incredibly(fearful(that it was(not a passing(phase,(and(did(eAerything(I could(to( change(that.(And(so,(being(able(to(embrace(gay(as(a descriptor(of(me(was(really(a faith( 0ourney,(and(I actually(...(Tou(Enow(in(1986,(tha2:s(wha2B(30,(almost 33(years(ago(now( when(I came(out.(It felt liEe(I was(called(out by(Mod.(That I could(no(longer(walE(into(a pulpit and(call(people(to(a life(of(authenPcity(and(not try(to(liAe(a life(of(authenPcity( myself.( Gene: So,(it Aery(much(felt liEe(a call(from(Mod,(and(the(story(I loAe(to(...(De(tell(about that is,( the(story(of(Jesus(raising(Nazarus(from(the(dead(and(Jesus(calls(into(the(tomb(to(Nazarus,( and(the(words(he(uses(are,(OCome(out.O(And(most people(thinE(that means(coming(out of(the(tomb,(and(coming(out of(denial(of(being(gay(is(liEe(coming(out of(a tomb.(So,(Aery( much(rooted(in(my(faith(0ourney.( MaRhias:( I mean,(you:Ae(been(in(ministry(for(the(majority(of(your(life,(so(you:Ae(Eind(of(been( holding(these(two(tensions(together(of(where(liEe,(I feel(liEe(a lot of(us(thinE(that this( faith(and(seSuality(conAersaPon(is(liEe(a recent conAersaPon(tha2:s(come(up(within(the( last 10(years(or(so,(which(is(completely(not true.(De:Ae(talEed(about that on(the(podcast before,(but you:Ae(liAed(this(life(of(ministry(and(worEing(with(your(seSual(orientaPon.( And():d(be(curious(liEe,(what has(...(NiEe,(tell(me(more(about that 0ourney.(NiEe,(what has( that been(liEe(being,(I mean,(a pioneer(of(sorts(in(this(world.( Gene: Tou(Enow,(i2:s(honestly(hard(for(me(to(remember(a Pme(when(I wasn:t trying(to(span( those(two(worlds.(Niterally(from(the(Aery(beginning(...(I grew(up(really,(really(poor.(My( parents(were(tobacco(share(croppers(in(aentucEy.(About as(close(to(slaAery(as(white( people(haAe(come(in(this(country,(and(I didn:t liAe(in(a house(with(running(water(unPl(I was(10.(And(yet,(from(the(Aery(earliest age(I was(inAolAed(in(the(church.(My(family(was( Aery,(Aery(religious,(and(I can:t remember(not hearing(from(the(pulpit and(from(others(in( my(church(that people(who(were(liEe(what I was(afraid(I was(were(an(abominaPon(to( God.( Gene: And(that word,(because(we(don:t use(it Aery(much,(has(a really(potent ring(to(it.(I mean,( i2:s(as(if(Mod(is(disgusted(with(us.(It's(not 0ust that Mod(thinEs(we:re(doing(the(wrong( thing,(but that Mod(is(literally(reAolted(by(us.(So,(from(the(Aery(earliest that I was(aware( of(these(two(worlds(I haAe(felt liEe(I had(a foot in(each(one.(I thinE(once(I Fnally(laid( claim(to(my(being(gay,(I was(already(ordained(by(that point,(and(franEly,(in(1986(when(I came(out and(I was(ordained,(the(only(thing(I was(actually(sure(about was(that my(life(as( an(ordained(person(in(the(church(was(oAer.( Queerology 68 - Gene Robinson Page 3! 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Gene: I mean,(I 0ust ...(That was(an(assumpPon(that I didn:t eAen(agoniUe(oAer.(It 0ust seemed( clear(to(me(that you(Enow,(I could(be(a part of(the(church,(I could(sit in(the(pew,(but I would(neAer(funcPon(again(as(an(ordained(person.(And(so,(talE(about an(eSperience(of( grace.(The(fact