Library of Congress Interview with Mr. Donald B. Kursch The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project DONALD B. KURSCH Interviewed by Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: September 24, 2003 Copyright 2006 ADST Q: This is the 24th, September, 2003. This is an interview with Donald B. Kursch. This is being done on behalf of The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training and I'm Charles Stuart Kennedy. Do you go by Don? KURSCH: Yes Q: Well, let's sort of start at the beginning? When and where were you born? KURSCH: I was born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1942, September. Q: OK. Tell me something about your family on both sides, first on your father's side. Where does the name Kursch come from? KURSCH: It probably comes from Germany. But my father is a New Yorker from Manhattan in New York City. His grandfather fought in the American Civil War in the Union Navy. He enlisted in 1863, at about the time of the draft riots. His mother's family came from Ireland. My mother's family, her father was from upstate New York, and her mother was from New York City, originally from Germany, and my grandfather came from upstate New York to Long Island in 1910 to teach school. Interview with Mr. Donald B. Kursch http://www.loc.gov/item/mfdipbib001576 Library of Congress Q: Did your father go to college? What did he do? KURSCH: My father was a schoolteacher, my mother was a schoolteacher, my grandfather was a schoolteacher, and my uncle was a professor of education. So that was the family background. Although, my dad really was originally a worker. He dropped out of school when he was 12; went back to high school when he was 19. He was a good boxer and football player. He ended up getting a scholarship to Columbia and graduated from Columbia University in 1940 just in time for WWII. Q: Was this the time of Sammy Baugh and all that sort of thing? KURSCH: Well, I think it was Sid Luckman. Q: I mean Sid Luckman. KURSCH: Sid Luckman was the big Columbia football hero. Q: Oh, yeah. KURSCH: But my dad, he passed away in 2001, but he was actually a prize fighter, and was recruited by Gene Tunney to join the US Navy as a physical education instructor. He ended up getting a master's degree from Columbia teacher's college in phys ed, so he had the happy circumstances of five years in the Navy as an officer during the war, and never left New York, except for basic training. Q: This is... your father is on the team during the glory days, wasn't it? I mean before Columbia essentially gave up football. But they had a great team. KURSCH: Yes, in the 1930s, they actually won the Rose Bowl once. Lou Little was the coach. He was still in his declining years when I was a kid. I used to go to their football games. I didn't go to Columbia. My dad wanted me to go. Interview with Mr. Donald B. Kursch http://www.loc.gov/item/mfdipbib001576 Library of Congress Q: Where did your mother go to school? KURSCH: My mother went to Barnard. Q: Oh, so you're a real New Yorker. KURSCH: Yes. I was really... Q: Did you grow up in New York? KURSCH: I grew up on Long Island. I lived in Levittown as a kid, and my father was a teacher in Westbury, Long Island for over 30 years. My mother was a teacher in Garden City. So, I went to public schools in Long Island. Q: Tell me about Levittown. Of course, this is the big experimental, the first real subdivision, I guess, wasn't it? KURSCH: Yes Q: How was it growing up as a small kid, how did you find Levittown? KURSCH: It was a wonderful place for families who came from the city. My cousins would come out from New York, and they would say, “We're in the country.” Levitt produced inexpensive housing for war veterans. I think my parents paid $35 a month rent for the house. But, the Levitts also allowed plenty of public property for swimming pools, softball fields, and churches. We had our Cub Scout troop in the Community church. Levittown was a well planned community. Neighbors were quite friendly. We used to play softball in the back yards and nobody complained. There weren't any fences around property. It was actually quite nice. My dad ended up I think being the neighborhood dad. He organized the softball games for the kids. Gave us all nicknames. Interview with Mr. Donald B. Kursch http://www.loc.gov/item/mfdipbib001576 Library of Congress Q: What sort of things did you find as a young kid by the time you hit the elementary school were you interested in? KURSCH: Well, I was very much interested in history, geography and travel. My mother got me the National Geographic I think when I was nine years old, or ten years old. And this is how I got interested in other cultures and countries. We never really went anywhere because we didn't get a car until I was nine, and we didn't have a TV until I was about 13 or 14. We were always the last family on the block, it seemed, to get new things. But I was very curious about other countries and also about history. There used to be a wonderful program called “You Are There”... do you remember that program? Q: Yes, oh yes, yes. KURSCH: At first it was on the radio, and then it came on television, and I listened to that with great religiousness. Q: Yeah. Well, as you went through school, were you involved in sports? KURSCH: Oh, yes. I played football, wrestling, track, in high school in particular. I did some sports in college. Unfortunately, I wasn't quite as competitive, so I did more intramural sports in college. I also did some sports announcing. I liked that. Q: What about in studies? How were you... how was math, and things like...? KURSCH: In high school, I was OK, actually. I got actually better SAT scores in math than I did in English. But I spent the time between Junior and Senior years working for a defense contractor at a plant on Long Island with a bunch of engineers who were trying to get guys to major in electrical engineering. And watching what they did made me decide that that's not where I wanted to spend the rest of my life. Q: Yeah. Well, what were the politics of your parents? Interview with Mr. Donald B. Kursch http://www.loc.gov/item/mfdipbib001576 Library of Congress KURSCH: Well, my father would have regarded himself as a progressive. Strong FDR man, had been a union organizer as a young man, an original member of the transport workers union. So he was quite left of center in his younger days. My mother's background, her father was an upstate New York Republican, who I'm sure regarded my dad as a dangerous radical. They got along over time. My mother voted the way my father did. Q: Did the outside world intrude... I'm thinking beyond New York... intrude on your house... sit around talk about public affairs, newspapers... KURSCH: We did a lot. I remember the McCarthy period very well. My father of course was very anti-McCarthy. He'd bring these professors out from Columbia to give presentations to the parent-teacher organization in Westbury Long Island, and that at times would create some controversy. He was the leader of the teacher's union, quite remarkably, when he didn't have tenure. One of the things that he was able to do was negotiate the best salary package for teachers in the United States. When the superintendent tried to get rid of him, and he ended up getting rid of the superintendent, which was quite remarkable when I think back about that. Q: Were you much aware of the union-establishment clash at all? KURSCH: I guess I was somewhat aware of it. I was certainly aware that there were a bunch of old families in town who tended to control the school board. Then we had a big migration out of New York City, and the people who came in gradually gained control of the public schools, and I think my father was much more comfortable with this latter group of people. So we went through that change. But the schools were quite good in Westbury in the 1950s. I think of my own public high school, and where the kids from that school went to college. We did quite well. Two people in my class went to Harvard, several went to Columbia, people went to Princeton. We did quite well for a small public school. Interview with Mr. Donald B. Kursch http://www.loc.gov/item/mfdipbib001576 Library of Congress Q: Can you think of any teachers who were particularly memorable? KURSCH: Yes, I guess I had good math teachers, I liked the math teachers. We had pretty good science teachers and English teachers. The school was good quality. It wasn't as good as my daughter's high school—my daughter ended up going to private school—when I compare her experience and mine. However, the school was very adequate. It was also reasonably small. We had about 200 kids in our graduating class, so you had a chance to be a big fish in a small pond.