COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO STATE CAPTURE HELD AT CITY OF JOHANNESBURG OLD COUNCIL CHAMBER 158 CIVIC BOULEVARD, BRAAMFONTEIN 19 MARCH 2021 DAY 364 22 Woodlands Drive Irene Woods, Centurion TEL: 012 941 0587 FAX: 086 742 7088 MOBILE: 066 513 1757 [email protected] CERTIFICATE OF VERACITY I, the undersigned, hereby certify that, in as far as it is audible, the aforegoing is a VERBATIM transcription from the soundtrack of proceedings, as was ordered to be transcribed by Gauteng Transcribers and which had been recorded by the client COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO STATE CAPTURE HELD AT CITY OF JOHANNESBURG OLD COUNCIL CHAMBER 158 CIVIC BOULEVARD, BRAAMFONTEIN DATE OF HEARING: 19 MARCH 2021 TRANSCRIBERS: B KLINE; Y KLIEM; V FAASEN; D STANIFORTH Page 2 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 PROCEEDINGS RESUME ON 19 MARCH 2021 CHAIRPERSON: Good morning Mr Seleka, good morning everybody. ADV SELEKA SC: Morning Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON: Are you ready? ADV SELEKA SC: We are ready Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. ADV SELEKA SC: Our first witness is Ms Lynne Brown it is the former Minister of DPE Department of Public 10 Enterprises. Ms Brown is legally represented Chairperson by my learned friend Mr Welcome Lusenga who will place himself on record. CHAIRPERSON: You can place yourself on record from where you are if your mic is working. ADV LUSENGA: Welcome Lusenga on behalf of Ms Brown Chair and just for the record I was with Mr – Advocate Sini Navala [?] when the brief started. CHAIRPERSON: Oh. ADV LUSENGA: She has not – he has now postponed. 20 CHAIRPERSON: Oh yes I heard about that. Yes. Such a pity. Yes. Okay. ADV LUSENGA: Thank you Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Good morning Ms Brown. MS BROWN: Good morning Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank you for availing Page 3 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 yourself to assist the commission. MS BROWN: Thank you very much for having me Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. MS BROWN: I think I have waited a long time for this. CHAIRPERSON: Well now you have got the opportunity. MS BROWN: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON: And I think because the scope for today is limited you probably are going to get another opportunity in regard to other work streams soon. 10 MS BROWN: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON: Okay alright. Mr Seleka. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you Chairperson. I suppose Ms Brown would be ready to take the … CHAIRPERSON: Ja please administer the oath or affirmation. REGISTRAR: Please state your full names for the record. MS BROWN: My name is Lynette Brown. REGISTRAR: Do you have any objection to taking the prescribed oath? 20 MS BROWN: No. REGISTRAR: Do you consider the oath binding on your conscience? MS BROWN: Yes. REGISTRAR: Do you solemnly swear that the evidence you will give will be the truth; the whole truth and nothing Page 4 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 but the truth; if so please raise your right hand and say, so help me God. MS BROWN: So help me God. CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Okay Mr Seleka. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you Chairperson. Chairperson we using for Ms Lynne Brown Eskom Bundle 19 and the affidavits of Ms Lynne Brown are contained in Exhibit U40. Ms Lynne Brown please confirm with me that you have Exhibit – Eskom Bundle 19 with you. 10 CHAIRPERSON: You will look at the spine of the file to see whether it is Eskom Bundle 19. ADV SELEKA SC: Ja she is following the electronic bundle Chair. MS BROWN: I am – I do not have Eskom Bundle – let me see. I have Eskom Bundle 1, Eskom Supplementary Zola Tsotsi, I have 13, 12, 6. I have 9, 17 and 14. I do have copies of my sworn affidavit. ADV SELEKA SC: Ja. CHAIRPERSON: It would be better if you have exactly 20 what the evidence leader and I have it will make it easy when you are referred to pages. Do you know whether you Have got this bundle somewhere in your house or you … MS BROWN: No, no I have it all on – online. CHAIRPERSON: Oh okay. MS BROWN: But I – I do not have – we received the Page 5 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 bundles quite late last night. CHAIRPERSON: Oh. MS BROWN: So I – I do not have Bundle 19. I have 14, 17 as I told you all the numbers Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Okay. Mr Seleka. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. Thank you Chair. Ms Brown I am being shown the link that was sent to you by email. The – is that the link you are using to access the bundles? MS BROWN: That is absolutely the link that I am using. 10 ADV SELEKA SC: Yes in that link I see that there is the Eskom Bundle 19 – ja. Tell me the email that you are using to access the link. CHAIRPERSON: I am sorry Mr Seleka maybe I should adjourn while you sort out. ADV SELEKA SC: Ja. CHAIRPERSON: The issue of the bundles. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: I am going to adjourn for a short time to enable this to be sorted out. 20 MS BROWN: I have it. Sorry Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Unless you say you have just found it I would like to adjourn to give everybody a chance to sort it out. You are not saying you have just found it? MS BROWN: Thank you. No I have it – I have not just found it. Page 6 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 CHAIRPERSON: Okay alright. Let – let us adjourn for a few minutes. We adjourn. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Has the issue been sorted out? ADV SELEKA SC: It has been sorted out Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Okay. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you. Ms Brown then I can refer to Bundle 19 again page 4. Eskom Bundle 19. MS BROWN: Yes. 10 ADV SELEKA SC: Page 4. Are you on page 4? MS BROWN: The removal of Mr Natana Rajesh. ADV SELEKA SC: No. CHAIRPERSON: Did you tell her about black numbers? ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: Pagination. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes we did Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Okay look at the top black – top corner left black numbers on that bundle look at where it says Eskom-10-19-004. When he says page 4 that is the page 20 he is referring. MS BROWN: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: He is just not mentioning 00. Have you found it? MS BROWN: Okay thank you. I have Chairman. CHAIRPERSON: Okay alright. Page 7 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 ADV SELEKA SC: She was there. Chairperson as we do that let me just explain Ms Brown has submitted to the commission three affidavits. Two of those affidavits were requested from her by a different work stream. The first one and the last one. The first affidavit does not deal with Eskom matters but we will make it available to the Chairperson. We did ask for it and in view of the fact that it did not deal with Eskom matters we approached Ms – Ms Brown to do an 10 affidavit in relation to Eskom matters and that affidavit is this supplementary affidavit which is being referred to as the first supplementary affidavit. The last affidavit which is the third is the second supplementary affidavit and we will place both the two supplementary affidavits on record for purposes of Eskom matters. CHAIRPERSON: Okay no that is fine. The reason why I was enquiring about it was 1. I know it exists. 20 ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: And 2. In this supplementary affidavit she makes references to it I think. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: So it seems that it might be necessary to Page 8 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 have a look. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: At what she says in that affidavit insofar as it – she refers to it. ADV SELEKA SC: Correct. CHAIRPERSON: I think there are places where she says something like as I said in my main affidavit or something like that. ADV SELEKA SC: Okay. 10 CHAIRPERSON: So that – that is why I wanted to have a look. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. CHAIRPERSON: But it can be made available as soon as you are able to make it available for me. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you Chair. CHAIRPERSON: Obviously … MS BROWN: Chair could I just say something about that? CHAIRPERSON: Yes. MS BROWN: I have submitted a – in January 2020 an 20 affidavit and that is my – the affidavit that I refer to all the time. CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Yes I think that is the one that I am talking about. I think in this supplementary affidavit there are places where you make reference to it. But they – they will make it available to me. Page 9 of 331 19 MARCH 2021 – DAY 364 MS BROWN: Yes. You are absolutely right there. CHAIRPERSON: Hm. They will make it available to me hopefully within the next hour so we can continue. Okay alright. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you. MS Brown let us go back to page 4 where you found – you find that supplementary affidavit. MS BROWN: Yes. ADV SELEKA SC: You are there? 10 MS BROWN: I am – I am Advocate Seleka. ADV SELEKA SC: Thank you. That affidavit runs up to page 18 – page 18. MS BROWN: On mine it says 355. ADV SELEKA SC: Yes. No that is the entire bundle. But if you go to page 18 MS BROWN: Okay. ADV SELEKA SC: You will – you will get to the end of your supplementary affidavit.