OFFICIAL REPORT (Hansard) Vol u m e 2 (15 February 1999 to 15 July 1999) BELFAST: THE STATIONERY OFFICE LTD £70.00 © Copyright The New Northern Ireland Assembly. Produced and published in Northern Ireland on behalf of the Northern Ireland Assembly by the The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Northern Ireland Assembly publications. ISBN 0 339 80001 1 ASSEMBLY MEMBERS (A = Alliance Party; NIUP = Northern Ireland Unionist Party; NIWC = Northern Ireland Women’s Coalition; PUP = Progressive Unionist Party; SDLP = Social Democratic and Labour Party; SF = Sinn Fein; DUP = Ulster Democratic Unionist Party; UKUP = United Kingdom Unionist Party; UUP = Ulster Unionist Party; UUAP = United Unionist Assembly Party) Adams, Gerry (SF) (West Belfast) Kennedy, Danny (UUP) (Newry and Armagh) Adamson, Ian (UUP) (East Belfast) Leslie, James (UUP) (North Antrim) Agnew, Fraser (UUAP) (North Belfast) Lewsley, Patricia (SDLP) (Lagan Valley) Alderdice of Knock, The Lord (Initial Presiding Officer) Maginness, Alban (SDLP) (North Belfast) Armitage, Pauline (UUP) (East Londonderry) Mallon, Seamus (SDLP) (Newry and Armagh) Armstrong, Billy (UUP) (Mid Ulster) Maskey, Alex (SF) (West Belfast) Attwood, Alex (SDLP) (West Belfast) McCarthy, Kieran (A) (Strangford) Beggs, Roy (UUP) (East Antrim) McCartney, Robert (UKUP) (North Down) Bell, Billy (UUP) (Lagan Valley) McClarty, David (UUP) (East Londonderry) Bell, Eileen (A) (North Down) McCrea, Rev William (DUP) (Mid Ulster) Benson, Tom (UUP) (Strangford) McClelland, Donovan (SDLP) (South Antrim) Berry, Paul (DUP) (Newry and Armagh) McDonnell, Dr Alasdair (SDLP) (South Belfast) Birnie, Esmond (UUP) (South Belfast) McElduff, Barry (SF) (West Tyrone) Boyd, Norman (NIUP) (South Antrim) McFarland, Alan (UUP) (North Down) Bradley, P J (SDLP) (South Down) McGimpsey, Michael (UUP) (South Belfast) Byrne, Joe (SDLP) (West Tyrone) McGrady, Eddie (SDLP) (South Down) Campbell, Gregory (DUP) (East Londonderry) McGuinness, Martin (SF) (Mid Ulster) Carrick, Mervyn (DUP) (Upper Bann) McHugh, Gerry (SF) (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Carson, Joan (UUP) (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) McLaughlin, Mitchel (SF) (Foyle) Close, Seamus (A) (Lagan Valley) McMenamin, Eugene (SDLP) (West Tyrone) Clyde, Wilson (DUP) (South Antrim) McNamee, Pat (SF) (Newry and Armagh) Cobain, Fred (UUP) (North Belfast) McWilliams, Prof Monica (NIWC) (South Belfast) Coulter, Rev Robert (UUP) (North Antrim) Molloy, Francie (SF) (Mid Ulster) Dallat, John (SDLP) (East Londonderry) Murphy, Conor (SF) (Newry and Armagh) Dalton, Duncan Shipley (UUP) (South Antrim) Murphy, Mick (SF) (South Down) Davis, Ivan (UUP) (Lagan Valley) Morrice, Jane (NIWC) (North Down) de Brún, Bairbre (SF) (West Belfast) Morrow, Maurice (DUP) (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Dodds, Nigel (DUP) (North Belfast) Neeson, Sean (A) (East Antrim) Doherty, Arthur (SDLP) (East Londonderry) Nelis, Mary (SF) (Foyle) Doherty, Pat (SF) (West Tyrone) Nesbitt, Dermot (UUP) (South Down) Douglas, Boyd (UUAP) (East Londonderry) O’Connor, Danny (SDLP) (East Antrim) Durkan, Mark (SDLP) (Foyle) O’Hagan, Dara (SF) (Upper Bann) Empey, Sir Reg (UUP) (East Belfast) ONeill, Eamonn (SDLP) (South Down) Ervine, David (PUP) (East Belfast) Paisley, Rev Dr Ian (DUP) (North Antrim) Farren, Sean (SDLP) (North Antrim) Paisley, Ian Jnr (DUP) (North Antrim) Fee, John (SDLP) (Newry and Armagh) Poots, Edwin (DUP) (Lagan Valley) Ford, David (A) (South Antrim) Ramsey, Sue (SF) (West Belfast) Foster, Sam (UUP) (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Robinson, Iris (DUP) (Strangford) Gallagher, Tommy (SDLP) (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Robinson, Ken (UUP) (East Antrim) Gibson, Oliver (DUP) (West Tyrone) Robinson, Mark (DUP) (South Belfast) Gildernew, Michelle (SF) (Fermanagh and South Tyrone) Robinson, Peter (DUP) (East Belfast) Gorman, Sir John (UUP) (North Down) Roche, Patrick (NIUP) (Lagan Valley) Hanna, Carmel (SDLP) (South Belfast) Rodgers, Brid (SDLP) (Upper Bann) Haughey, Denis (SDLP) (Mid Ulster) Savage, George (UUP) (Upper Bann) Hay, William (DUP) (Foyle) Shannon, Jim (DUP) (Strangford) Hendron, Dr Joe (SDLP) (West Belfast) Taylor, Rt Hon John (UUP) (Strangford) Hilditch, David (DUP) (East Antrim) Tierney, John (SDLP) (Foyle) Hume, John (SDLP) (Foyle) Trimble, Rt Hon David (UUP) (Upper Bann) Hussey, Derek (UUP) (West Tyrone) Watson, Denis (UUAP) (Upper Bann) Hutchinson, Billy (PUP) (North Belfast) Weir, Peter (UUP) (North Down) Hutchinson, Roger (NIUP) (East Antrim) Wells, Jim (DUP) (South Down) Kane, Gardiner (DUP) (North Antrim) Wilson, Cedric (NIUP) (Strangford) Kelly, Gerry (SF) (North Belfast) Wilson, Jim (UUP) (South Antrim) Kelly, John (SF) (Mid Ulster) Wilson, Sammy (DUP) (East Belfast) The Rt Hon David Trimble MP First Minister (Designate) Seamus Mallon MP Deputy First Minister (Designate) The Lord Alderdice FRCPI FRCPsych Initial Presiding Officer OFFICE OF THE SPEAKER Private Secretary: Ms Georgina Campbell Special Adviser: Niall Johnston Speaker’s Counsel: Nicolas Hanna QC OFFICE OF THE ASSEMBLY COMMISSION Clerk to the Commission and the House Committees: Tom Evans PRINCIPAL OFFICERS Clerk: (Vacant) Deputy Clerk: Nigel Carson Head of Administration: Gerry Cosgrave Clerk Assistant: Murray Barnes Editor of Debates: Alex Elder Keeper of the House: Peter Waddell Director of Research and Information: Allan Black Director of Finance and Personnel: Ms Liz Benson Clerk of Bills: Alan Patterson Clerk of Business: Joe Reynolds Clerk of Committees: John Torney Clerk of Standards and Privilege: Denis Arnold Clerk: George Martin Clerk: Dominic McGoran Clerk: Mrs Debbie Pritchard Clerk: Alan Rogers Clerk: Mrs Cathie White Clerk: Martin Wilson Head of Research: Dr Stephen Donnelly Head of Information and Events: Ms Gail McKibbin Principal Doorkeeper: Kieran Mullan THE NEW instance, the draft Standing Orders, as discussed by the NORTHERN IRELAND Committee on Standing Orders, and Erskine May. I have reconsidered the matter raised by Mr P Robinson ASSEMBLY in some detail, and I have taken advice from my legal counsel. I have concluded that I must stand by my earlier ruling on the issue. I do not think that anyone could seriously challenge the assertion that the Initial Monday 15 February 1999 Presiding Officer is under a duty to act fairly with all Members and should not discriminate in favour of some to the disadvantage of others. If I were not to proceed in The Assembly met at 10.30 am (the Initial Presiding the way that I have ruled, my actions could be Officer (The Lord Alderdice of Knock) in the Chair). challenged by way of judicial review. Members observed two minutes’silence. If the unfair advantage that I have mentioned is to be avoided, it will be necessary to ensure that all Members are allowed the same time in which to enter, physically, PRESIDING OFFICER’S BUSINESS the place where they are entitled to vote. How this is achieved is clearly a matter of procedure upon which, by The Initial Presiding Officer: At the end of the last virtue of Initial Standing Order 2(1), my ruling shall be sitting of the Assembly some Members raised with me final. difficulties regarding the audibility of other Members The adopted procedure of closing the Chamber Doors who were speaking in the Chamber. The problems at the expiration of three minutes after a general identified have been examined and, where possible, announcement is a fair and reasonable one, particularly have been addressed. In particular, I draw the attention bearing in mind that any other procedure for achieving of Members to the suspended microphones in the this would be difficult to police. Those Members who Chamber. I have had these lowered in an attempt to are excluded because they arrive late will not have been ensure greater amplification. I trust that they are now not treated any less favourably than any other Member. so low as to cause the taller Members of the Assembly Until the Doors are opened at the conclusion of a vote, any inconvenience. If Members still experience difficulties Members who have been denied access to the Chamber in hearing other Members’ speeches they should contact will, of course, be able to observe, although not participate, the Keeper of the House. from the Gallery. There has been some uncertainty over the status of Mr P Robinson: I am grateful for this, but it does not papers placed in the Library. I have looked at this go to the heart of the matter that I sought to have matter, and to clarify things I make the following ruling. addressed. What I asked was whether the Initial Standing When papers are placed in the Library, that act will Order permitted you to make an interpretation, no make them public documents. The Library will not be matter how liberal that existing Standing Order was, or responsible for making the papers available; the papers, whether it drew a line at allowing you to bring in or along with other material, will, as soon as possible, be make new Standing Orders. Where is the line between placed on the Assembly’s website and thus will be interpreting an existing Standing Order and making a widely available. They are, of course, always available ruling which amounts to a new Standing Order? to Members, who should feel free to publish them. The Initial Presiding Officer: My view is that no Papers to be put in the Library but which are not for Presiding Officer should be in a position arbitrarily to public dissemination will be termed “papers deposited in construct Standing Orders. It is not just appropriate to the Library”. Such papers will be available to Members ensure that whatever developments of procedure are but should not be made more widely available. necessary for the implementation of Standing Orders are At the previous sitting Mr P Robinson asked me to carried through, but a binding duty. I do not think it is reflect further on the meaning and intention of Initial appropriate for completely new and essentially arbitrary Standing Order 2(1), suggesting that, in ordering the Standing Orders to be created, and I do not believe that Doors to be fastened, I was going beyond what the my decision did that. Initial Standing Orders entitled the Initial Presiding Mr Dalton: Would the Presiding Officer explain to Officer to do.