Vol. 716 Thursday No. 25 14 January 2010 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Transport: Mobile Telephones Intercept Evidence Honour-related Violence Universities: Finance Questions to the Secretary of State for Transport Buses Aviation: Climate Change Railways: Passenger Satisfaction Business of the House Timing of Debates Business of the House Motion on Standing Orders Child Poverty Bill Order of Consideration Motion Climate Change: Copenhagen Conference Debate UK: Tolerance, Democracy and Openness Debate Marriage (Wales) Bill [HL] Order of Commitment Discharged Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies and Credit Unions Bill [HL] Third Reading General and Specialist Medical Practice (Education, Training and Qualifications) Order 2010 Motion to Approve Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. 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All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2010, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ 601 Transport: Mobile Telephones[14 JANUARY 2010] Transport: Mobile Telephones 602 there has been a very significant reduction, but of House of Lords course that is not a big enough reduction, and we need Thursday, 14 January 2010. to be prepared to consider all measures, including renewed advertising campaigns, to bring the figure 11 am down further. Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Chichester. Baroness Gardner of Parkes: My Lords, can the Minister tell us how many fatal and how many serious Transport: Mobile Telephones accidents there have been involving the use of mobile phones, as we read alarmingly about them in the press Question all the time? 11.06 am Lord Adonis: My Lords, I am afraid that we do not Tabled By Viscount Tenby gather statistics on that basis, but there has been a very To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps significant fall in the number of those killed and they are taking to reduce the use of hand-held seriously injured on the roads. The latest data for 2008 mobile telephones by drivers, in the light of the were that there were 2,538 deaths on the roads. That report by the Transport Research Laboratory indicating compared with an average between 1994 and 1998 of that the practice is on the increase. 3,578, so there has been a 29 per cent increase overall, but we do not have the figure specifically in respect of Lord Aberdare: My Lords, on behalf of my noble accidents caused by drivers being on mobile phones. friend Lord Tenby, and with his permission, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Lord Bradshaw: Building on what the noble Baroness Order Paper. said, in the forthcoming road safety review, will the Minister consider that when an accident is shown to The Secretary of State for Transport (Lord Adonis): be caused or contributed to by somebody using a My Lords, using a mobile phone while driving became mobile phone, that offence should be considered as an offence in 2003 and the penalties were increased in dangerous driving, rather than careless driving? 2007 to the same level as for speeding. For the first two years since then, surveys have shown a remarkable Lord Adonis: My Lords, it is entirely up to the 35 per cent reduction in the observed use of mobile police what offences they choose to prosecute for. phones by drivers. Figures showing an increase in the They can, of course, prosecute for either of those past year apply to London only; but they are clearly a offences. cause of concern, and I have asked that further measures be considered as part of the forthcoming road safety Lord Filkin: Can my noble friend tell the House strategy for the next 10 years. whether the level of compliance has met the standard that the department expected when it legislated? Secondly, Lord Aberdare: My Lords, I thank the Minister for can he tell us whether he thinks the public believe that that Answer. Would he agree that a change of attitude the legislation is working? among drivers is needed, similar to the one that has made drink-driving socially unacceptable? With that Lord Adonis: My Lords, we expected to see a significant in mind, would the Government consider mounting reduction in the number of drivers using hand-held another advertising campaign similar to the helpful mobile phones. The evidence is that we have seen such one some years ago on the theme of, “Think! Switch it a reduction, but we cannot be satisfied with the fact off before you drive”, or exploring ways of ensuring that there are still significant numbers of drivers using that employers actively seek to prevent the use of hand-held mobile phones. Public attitudes are changing. mobile phones—whether hand-held or hands-free—while I believe that, as the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, said driving by their employees, to whom they may have at the beginning, people are coming to see using provided both the phone and the vehicle? mobile phones while driving as being in the same category as drink-driving. As we get public attitudes Lord Adonis: My Lords, all of the noble Lord’s changing, we will be able to bear down on it more points are well made. There have been two “Think” successfully. campaigns specifically directed at the use of mobile phones by drivers. A number of employers have policies Baroness Hanham: My Lords, would the Secretary that specifically prohibit their employees from using of State tell us the means of enforcement for hand-held their mobile phones while on the road—although, of mobile phone offences? Is it just left to the police to go course, it is the responsibility of individual motorists off on a motor bicycle after them? How does the to ensure that they do not use hand-held mobile enforcement take place? phones while driving. As for changes in public attitude, there has been a Lord Adonis: My Lords, it is the responsibility of very significant change in practice. Before the 2007 the police, but the big change in the law in 2007 was to change in the law, research by the Transport Research bring in not only a £60 fine—doubling the previous Laboratory estimated that 1.7 per cent of those drivers £30 fine—but, crucially, to treat the offence in the whom they were observing were using hand-held mobile same way as speeding so placing three points on the phones. The last national figures we have show that licence. Three points on the licence appears to have 1.1 per cent were using hand-held mobile phones. So had a big impact on the attitude of motorists. When it 603 Transport: Mobile Telephones[LORDS] Intercept Evidence 604 [LORD ADONIS] Intercept Evidence comes to reviewing the progress of the legislation, I am certainly prepared to consider whether the three Question points should be increased in future. 11.14 am Baroness Finlay of Llandaff: In the investigation of Asked By Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer serious and fatal accidents, has any consideration been given to communicating with the mobile phone companies, To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment which should be able to track from where masts have they have made of how the size of the United been used for calls whether a person was on the phone Kingdom intercept operation, described in the Privy at the time of the accident? Then it would not be very Council review in February 2008 as “a particularly difficult to see whether the car had been fitted with a large and sophisticated intercept capability”, has hands-free set. contributed to the inability to find a solution to the admissibility of intercept evidence in court. Lord Adonis: My Lords, when accidents occur, the police assess all the available information and evidence The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home about the causes. That includes the use of mobile Office (Lord West of Spithead): My Lords, the difficulties phones.