AN INTERVIEW WITH SHERMAN FERGUSON LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA KCRW-FM September 7, 1981 Bob Rosenbaum 1981, All Rights Reserved (music — "On the Stairs," Pat Martino) DO YOU HAVE LIKE A — SOME MUSICIANS USE A REFERENCE POINT, OTHER DRUMMERS OR OTHER "ON THE STAIRS," WHICH FEATURES GUITARIST PAT HORN PLAYERS. DO YOU LISTEN TO OTHER DRUMMERS MARTINO, EDDIE GREEN ON THE PIANO, TYRONE SPECIFICALLY? BROWN ON BASS AND DRUMMER SHERMAN FERGUSON, You mean, for inspiration? I listen to all the WHO IS WITH US HERE THIS EVENING. YOU WERE JUST other drummers for inspiration! Yeah. ABOUT TO TELL ME THAT "ON THE STAIRS" WAS WRITTEN ON THE STAIRS... ANY PARTICULAR DRUMMER? BILLY HART IS ONE Literally on the stairs, yeah. WHO IS— Oh, Billy Hart, he's like a brother to me. I love IN WHAT WAY? DID YOU WRITE IT? him. He's been a major influence on me. No, that's Pat's tune. But we were working in Grendal's Land, Philadelphia, and we were on YOU WROTE A SONG FOR HIM. our way down to do the second set, and he Yeah I did. A couple of years ago. Boy, it's been started, you know, fooling around with more than a couple of years. About 10 years ago. something. And (laughs) he literally, he wrote it Boy, how time flies! going down the stairs! And it's a real nice tune. And it's alot of fun to play. THAT WAS IN PHILADELPHIA. Yeah, with the Catalyst band. On our very first album. That was my very first composition to be I listen to a little bit of recorded. It was very exciting for me. everything. LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT PHILADELPHIA, BECAUSE THERE'S ALOT OF PEOPLE LISTENING WHO MIGHT HAVE LIVED IN PHILADELPHIA AT THE TIME. AND MIGHT HAVE KNOWN THIS BAND CALLED YEAH! AND GOOD TO LISTEN TO AS WELL. PAT "CATALYST." MARTINO ON THE GUITAR. AND AGAIN, WELCOME TO SHERMAN, WHO HAS BROUGHT IN A WHOLE BUNCH OF Yeah, well Eddie Green was the piano player. ALBUMS. AND WE'RE GOING TO BE LISTENING TO SOME And Odean Pope was the saxophone player — OF SHERMAN'S MUSIC FOR THE NEXT LITTLE WHILE. he's with Max Roach now — he'll be in town in a AND THE STUFF THAT HE LIKES TO LISTEN TO. WHEN couple of weeks, and I'm looking forward to YOU LISTEN, WHO IS IT THAT YOU LIKE TO LISTEN TO? seeing him. And Tyrone Brown was the bass player. But the original bass player was I listen to a little bit of everything, you know. Alphonso Johnson. As far as jazz is concerned, I listen to all of it. Like everything that's good. Eddie Green kind of discovered Alphonso Johnson. We were working with Ronnie Dysan, For more information about this or similar interviews, or to obtain a copy of the original sound recording, contact Bob Rosseenbaum at [email protected]@bobrosenbaum.com. and he was the bass player. And we would play AND SHERMAN FERGUSON ON DRUMS, WITH "JABALI." a couple of tunes before Ronnie would come up. (music — "Jabali," "Athene," Catalyst) And one night Eddie said, 'Man, that bass player is a bad cat!' You know, and I was so busy reading charts and stuff, you know, the music WOW. THAT'S "ATHENE." CATALYST IS THE GROUP. felt alright. So the next night I really paid THAT'S ABOUT ALL THAT I CAN SAY FROM THAT. WHO attention to him. I said 'Yeah, that's a baaad cat!' WROTE THAT? You know? And that's how the Catalyst band That's Tyrone Brown's composition, and his got started. arrangement and orchestration and everything. NOW THAT WAS A HOT BAND IN PHILADELPHIA. YEAH WE HEARD EVERYTHING ON THAT! (LAUGHS) Yeah. Uh-huh. JOHN BLAKE WAS THE FEATURED VIOLIN SOLOIST ON THAT, AND HE'S SOMEONE WHO THESE DAYS PLAYS WHAT KINDS OF PLACES DID YOU PLAY THERE? WAS ALOT WITH MCCOY TYNER. THERE A HEAVY CLUB SCENE? Right. Formerly with Grover. We played all the major clubs in Philadelphia, we did concerts. We did openings for the REALLY? Crusaders at different colleges and stuff. We did anything that came along that was really good Yeah, he was with Grover for a long time. Yeah, for the band. Because we wanted exposure. in the Locke-Smith Band. He plays funk too. He's a good writer, good piano player, synthesizer player. He's a hell of a composer. TEN YEARS AGO NOW. He's a bad little cat. I love John! Yeah, around '71, I think. I SAW HIM WHEN HE WAS AT THE LIGHTHOUSE ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS AGO. AND THAT WAS Drummers write tunes that INCREDIBLE TO WATCH HIM PLAY. Yeah, he's something else. He's one of the are very rhythmic, usually. giants. AND HE WAS THERE IN 1974 TO RECORD THIS NUMBER ALONG WITH EDDIE GREEN ON KEYBOARDS, ODEAN AND AN ALBUM WAS JUST REISSUED ON MUSE POPE ON THE FLUTE HERE. TYRONE BROWN THE RECORDS BY CATALYST — WHICH WE'RE GOING TO BASSIST AND COMPOSER, AND SHERMAN FERGUSON FEATURE NEXT. AS A MATTER OF FACT I'M GOING TO THE DRUMMER. AND ALONG WITH YOU ON THAT PLAY THE COMPOSITION THAT YOU WRITE FOR BILLY PARTICULAR NUMBER IS BILLY HART. HART. "Jabali." Yeah, it's entitled "Jabali." It's a tune that most drummers like, because drummers write tunes JABALI. that are very rhythmic, usually. And because the tune is about a drummer, I thought it was very There were other string players, and — apropos. It goes in different feelings, and it has — well, let the music speak for itself! YEAH, THERE OTHER PEOPLE WHO JOINED ON THIS PARTICULAR NUMBER. OK, YEAH. EDDIE GREEN IS ON PIANO, AL JOHNSON IS On the last two or three albums the Catalyst ON BASS — ALPHONSO JOHNSON. ODEAN POPE IS ON band did, we expanded on one or two tunes by THE VARIOUS REEDS. WHAT DOES HE PLAY ON THIS using larger ensembles. Because that's how NUMBER? Tyrone was hearing it, so we had the freedom. The producer was going crazy saying 'That's He plays tenor saxophone on this number. 2 An Interview with Sherman Ferguson costing too much money!' But that's what we it brings to my mind, we can throw it around wanted. and see what happens.' And nine times out of ten, well, I'd say almost ten times out of ten, I THIS IS MUSE RECORDS, BY THE WAY, SPEAKING OF would get it. And the cats would say 'Yeah! PRODUCERS AND ALL OF THAT. AND THE ALBUM TITLE That's what... I can hear that.' IS "UNITY." I'M CAUGHT NOW, I'M WONDERING WHERE THE NAME "CATALYST" CAME FROM. THAT'S DEFINITELY A TALENT TO HAVE. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE PROBABLY ALWAYS BEEN Uh, I came up with the name of "Catalyst." ABLE TO DO TOO. Because, you know what a catalyst is, what a catalyst does— Well, I don't know. I mean, there's a tune that we'll get into later on — I'd like to play later on IT'S SOMETHING WHICH HELPS TO CREATE, IN from one of the other Catalyst albums called CHEMISTRY, CHEMICAL REACTIONS, WITHOUT ITSELF "Maze." And I think it conveys a maze. It's BEING USED UP. something that you get into, and the more you get into it, it's harder to get out of. It's a puzzle, Yeah, but, you know, that's exactly what the but a pleasant one. (Laughs) band was about. Because everybody was a catalyst for the other three members. Without AS A DRUMMER, YOU MIGHT HAVE A SPECIAL losing his own individuality. RELATION TO THAT. DID YOU WRITE IT OR— AND THAT'S REAL STRONG THERE. No, I just named that one. And there were no ego problems, or anything. The music is what came first, you know. That was a really special experience being in that Logic is the most important band. I'll cherish it for the rest of my days. thing I strive for, as far as my A SPECIAL TIME. YEAH. AND IT WAS RECORDED, WHICH IS ALMOST UNUSUAL IN JAZZ THAT A concept in playing. COLLECTION OF FINE MUSICIANS CAN GET TOGETHER AND PUT TOGETHER MUSIC LIKE THIS AND BE RECORDED AT THAT TIME. AND PLAYED ON IT, TOO. SO YOU HAD A REAL SPECIAL Yeah. ASSOCIATION WITH IT. THERE'S THREE ALBUMS THAT I HAVE IN FRONT OF ME Yeah, but usually what I do is, I take it and just RIGHT HERE. listen to it and see what it conveys, what images it brings to mind. You know, and if it sounds Well, there's four albums altogether. good and feels good. Sometimes I'll say, 'No, no, I think I'll try that one again.' But eventually it THERE'S "UNITY," "PERCEPTION," WHICH IS ANOTHER comes out. I get the essence of what a tune is INTERESTING NAME... about. I was the one that always got the job of naming things. You know I have a talent in that area, as DO YOU FIND THAT YOU CAN PLAY YOUR far as nailing, you know — VOCABULARY AS WELL AS YOU CAN PLAY YOUR DRUMS? WORDS. No, because the only vocal similarity to playing Yeah, so, most of the time, cats, you know, for is as far as phrasing is concerned. Sentences, example Eddie, would always come to me and paragraphs. But I don't usually think in terms of have the tune written and, say, 'I don't know.