Hansard (English)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 45 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 13 October 2005 The Council met at Three o' clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA FAN HSU LAI-TAI, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, S.B.ST.J., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, S.C., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LUI MING-WAH, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 46 THE HONOURABLE BERNARD CHAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG, G.B.S. THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE LAU CHIN-SHEK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHOY SO-YUK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LI FUNG-YING, B.B.S., J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 47 THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE AUDREY EU YUET-MEE, S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE LI KWOK-YING, M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG THE HONOURABLE DANIEL LAM WAI-KEUNG, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MA LIK, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HOK-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 48 THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE PATRICK LAU SAU-SHING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT JINGHAN CHENG THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHI-KIN THE HONOURABLE TAM HEUNG-MAN MEMBER ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, G.B.S., J.P. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE RAFAEL HUI SI-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK MA SI-HANG, J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY, AND SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY THE HONOURABLE ELSIE LEUNG OI-SIE, G.B.M., J.P. THE SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOUSING, PLANNING AND LANDS PROF THE HONOURABLE ARTHUR LI KWOK-CHEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH WONG WING-PING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE DR THE HONOURABLE PATRICK HO CHI-PING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 49 THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN IP SHU-KWAN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND LABOUR DR THE HONOURABLE SARAH LIAO SAU-TUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, TRANSPORT AND WORKS THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN LAM SUI-LUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LEE SIU-KWONG, I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY THE HONOURABLE JOHN TSANG CHUN-WAH, J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE, INDUSTRY AND TECHNOLOGY DR THE HONOURABLE YORK CHOW YAT-NGOK, S.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH, WELFARE AND FOOD PROF LAU SIU-KAI, J.P. HEAD, CENTRAL POLICY UNIT CLERK IN ATTENDANCE: MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG, J.P., SECRETARY GENERAL PURSUANT TO RULE 8 OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE, THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THE HONOURABLE DONALD TSANG YAM-KUEN, ATTENDED TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL AND TO RECEIVE QUESTIONS. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 50 THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE' S QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION ON THE POLICY ADDRESS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members will please remain standing for the Chief Executive. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive will first address the Council. CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Madam President, I am most delighted to again meet with Members today. May I first of all wish the Legislative Council great success and a most productive new Legislative Session. If I may first depart from my text of prepared speech, I would like to say something from the bottom of my heart. (Laughter) In my speech, there is a major topic that has neither been mentioned nor presented in print. However, it is such an important issue that it links up my three main themes, and that is, harmonious society, economic development and strong governance. But the most important factor for success has not been written out. Yesterday, Jimmy mentioned this point to the mass media, and that is, the improvement of the relationship between the executive and the legislature. But I have not mentioned it so far. In fact, I thought about the issue long and hard when drafting the policy address. In retrospect, the issue of improvement of the relationship between the executive and the legislature arose earlier than 1997. In fact, as early as the ' 90s in the last century when the representative government was introduced, this issue was always mentioned by both official and non-official Members every year in the policy debates. Subsequently, this issue was repeatedly mentioned year after year. In this year' s policy address, I felt that such an important issue should be mentioned again. But after some careful consideration, I thought I had better prove it with actions. I hope I can prove it with actions and that I am able to contribute more to improving the relationship between the executive and the legislature in the months ahead after assuming the post of Chief Executive. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 51 After I was sworn in as the Chief Executive, I told Members what my thinking was and what my work plan was on the first working day of the Legislative Council. At that time, I sincerely invited Members to work together with me so that we could focus on issues of public concern and share the same targets and blueprint. At that time, I made a pledge to Members that as I had fully understood their wishes in the previous motion debates, I would report to them and state clearly what my platform is during my term in the earliest opportunity. So, I advanced the day of announcing the policy address to October this year or the very first day of this new Legislative Session in order to spell out my missions. During the past few months, I have done a number of jobs, including a visit to the Pearl River Delta Region by all of us. Besides, I have also made use of the first opportunity to listen to the wishes and aspirations of individual Legislative Council Members and people from various sectors. They all hope that the policies proposed by me can be truly implemented. At that time, I also listened to the views of other people and different sectors which serve as evidence to verify that my pledges to the general public during my election campaign can meet their needs. Furthermore, as I am aware, I have a limited term which will expire in mid-2007. During this limited term, I will exert my utmost to seek the most important common goal in the hope that the policy address can really answer people' s aspirations, particularly Members' , in order to prove with facts that I have both an ear and a heart or the determination to accomplish a task together with Members. By setting aside my personal preference, all the policies in yesterday' s policy address are based mainly on the views of Members and the general public in an attempt to set out objectives within my abilities, including such sensitive issues as setting a minimum wage, fair competition law for the prevention of monopolization and other livelihood issues. I also hope that I can address individually the aspirations of Members in the policy address. First of all, I think, during the whole process, we share a common goal. What I am trying to say is that, as I mentioned at the beginning of the policy address, we should exercise our powers and perform our functions as prescribed. So, we should remember that what we do should adhere to the principle that "we care for the people, we exercise powers for the people and we seek to improve the well-being of the people". Let us operate with due checks and balances and complement each other. We should truly accomplish the goal of having the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 52 executive complement the legislature basically because we share the common ground. We exercise powers for the people and we work for the well-being of the people. What we care and concern about is the masses of Hong Kong. Since we share a common goal, we should be able to work together and talk in the same language. There should be less bitter comments and harsh words. We should face our clients together — the general public of Hong Kong. An opportunity is now awaiting us: The people do hope that we can co-operate. I hope we can be united in our efforts to accomplish what should be done for the people in the rest of my term. I am happy to take questions from Members. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): The Chief Executive will now answer questions on the policy address raised by Members. A Member whose question has been answered may, if necessary and for the purpose of elucidation only, ask a short follow-up question. MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Madam President, Chief Executive, on the issue of fair competition, many people opine that the Chief Executive, during the past few decades of his career as a civil servant, particularly in his capacity as the Financial Secretary, seemed to oppose a comprehensive competition law. Now being a politician, will your attitude take a 180-degree change? This time you say you will do some research, how can we be convinced? The Democratic Party has mentioned this issue with you or the Government during the past 10 years or so. It has also moved a private Members' bill on this issue and debated on it in the Legislative Council for a number of times. How would you convince people that your values have thoroughly changed in the sense that you firmly believe that this is conducive to Hong Kong' s competitiveness and long-term interest as an international financial centre and you do not intend it to be a delaying tactic? CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I have never changed my beliefs in relation to Hong Kong economy. I am also full of confidence in the competitiveness of Hong Kong' s business sector and consider that Hong Kong' s business environment is vitally important to the fostering of economic activities LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 53 and people' s well-being. However, I have also heard the views of many people, particularly in the past year when such wordings as "collusion between business and the Government" were mentioned during our debates on some controversial issues. It means that there is market domination in our society. According to my conscience and my review of the operation of the business sector and the internal procedures of the Government, I do not find any signs of the alleged situation. However, we must understand that many large enterprises in Hong Kong have become multinational conglomerates and many overseas multinational <ul style="display: flex;"><li style="flex:1">conglomerates have also set up business in Hong Kong. </li><li style="flex:1">Under such </li></ul>circumstances, are people' s worries, particularly those of Members, unfounded? I think we should adopt an open mind when studying the issue. So, I very much hope that when a committee is set up to study the existence or otherwise of monopolization in market competition next year, it will study open-mindedly whether we should introduce a fair competition law from a more macro point of view. Regarding this issue, not only Members in the Democratic Party and the Article 45 Concern Group have mentioned it, other Members have also expressed their views on this issue. In general debates, wordings such as "collusion between business and the Government" are repeatedly uttered. Although these wordings may be uttered just for expressing one' s emotion rather than taking it as a fact, such phenomenon must be dealt with. If I am stalling for time, Mr TO, I will certainly avoid this issue. Nor will it be made a pledge in the policy address. I will keep an open mind and honour my pledge in a sincere manner and I do not think there is any change in my economic philosophy or beliefs. MR JAMES TO (in Cantonese): Madam President, just now the Chief Executive pointed out that some people and many Members had also mentioned this issue in recent days. In fact, the public have all along thought that there is market monopolization in Hong Kong. This is quite different from what the Chief Executive has observed. May I ask the Chief Executive whether he can pledge that a bill on this issue will be introduced within his two-year term so as to ensure that Hong Kong' s competitiveness will not be sliding down the scale in other rating reports and Hong Kong's market status can be further consolidated on the right track? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 54 CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): I have made it clear that I very much hope to keep an open mind. However, we have to reach a consensus in studying the issue in order to ensure that the negative impact of an anti-trust law will not occur in Hong Kong as it does in other places. Moreover, we must ensure that such a law is introduced not for window-dressing but for addressing our actual needs. I firmly believe that once the committee is formed, it will study the issue in great detail and do some pragmatic work in the hope that it will come up with the best proposal at the earliest opportunity. However, I do not think a rigid timeframe is the best way to resolve this issue. MR BERNARD CHAN (in Cantonese): Madam President, Chief Executive, you mentioned in your policy address that you would further promote our exchanges with eastern China and the southwestern region, provide additional support services to Hong Kong people visiting the Mainland, and established a Mainland Affairs Liaison Office. As far as I know, the social welfare sector in the past two years has conducted a number of different studies, finding that many Hong Kong people working or living in the Mainland are in want of support and face great difficulties in adaptation. May I ask the Government what specific plans it has for providing support to Hong Kong people in the Mainland? CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): In view of the huge area of our country, it is a very difficult and tall challenge if we try to meet every need of all Hong Kong people who have moved to the Mainland. The proposal in my policy address, in my opinion, is an urgent and extremely important issue which is the difficulties encountered by Hong Kong people when doing business in the Mainland. At the same time, mainland enterprises which intend to invest or raise capital in Hong Kong also face some difficulties. If we can make some efforts, we can not only help these businessmen, but also promote the economic activities in Hong Kong. So, in my conception, two additional offices will be set up in the Mainland, one in Chengdu, the southwestern part of China, and the other in Shanghai, which will mainly deal with matters concerning trade and <ul style="display: flex;"><li style="flex:1">economic development. </li><li style="flex:1">Colleagues currently working in Beijing and </li></ul>Guangdong Offices will also reshuffle their duties. These four offices will report to the Constitutional Affairs Bureau so that their services can be strengthened. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 55 Of course, if a Hong Kong resident is involved in an incident or accident in the Mainland and needs help, our own resources and the resources of these four mainland offices will be deployed in order to provide as much assistance as we can, particularly I hope assistance can be provided to Hong Kong residents involved in traffic or commercial disputes. Having said that, I hope Mr CHAN can understand that these offices, which are small in scale, have each been manned by a small staff in contrast with the huge area of our country. It is really not easy for our staff to reach the location where the incident has occurred in time. Nevertheless, I am sure that colleagues stationed in these offices will do their best to provide assistance. MR BERNARD CHAN (in Cantonese): You are right, Chief Executive, it is impossible for the government departments to take care of all Hong Kong people living in the Mainland. However, various organizations of the social welfare sector have set up different focal points of liaison within their networks in the Mainland. Instead of provision of assistance by our liaison offices alone, is it possible for them to co-operate with these organizations in providing support to our people? CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): That' s a brilliant idea. I am sure I will discuss this issue with our colleagues and take follow-up action in relation to this suggestion. MS MARGARET NG (in Cantonese): Madam President, the District Council-related proposal, which has been divulged through informal channels by the Government, is obviously not accepted by the Hong Kong people. Why does the Chief Executive not withdraw it at the earliest opportunity and hold discussions with the Central Authorities in order to introduce another reform proposal that is closer to universal suffrage and the aspirations cherished by the Hong Kong people? CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): As far as I know, the Chief Secretary for Administration has yet to submit any proposal. (Laughter) Although the proposal has yet to be submitted, some people have already voiced their disagreement. As Hong Kong is a free society, there are always divergent LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 56 views. Regarding the proposal rumoured, there are some opinions that the proposal has certain merits. Having said that, I think Members should be patient because the Chief Secretary will soon brief Members on the Fifth Report and the mainstream opinion collated by the Government after a long public consultation exercise. The report will present our rationale. If Ms NG or other Members wish to express their views, they will be able to do so in open debates and discussions. I know the Chief Secretary and other colleagues, when drafting the report, have made a lot of efforts to reflect the ideas of Hong Kong people who think what we can do within the existing framework after a long consultation exercise. I hope Members will look at the issue from an objective perspective and discuss it with a positive attitude. I hope we can make the first step towards universal suffrage in democratization. MS MARGARET NG (in Cantonese): Madam President, we have fully expected that this would be the reply of the Chief Executive. In our discussion, I asked Mr Ronny TONG why this question should be asked because the Chief Executive' s reply was expected. Our concern at that time was that unless the Chief Executive tells us that the proposal in respect of District Councils, which has been divulged through informal channels, will disappear, we have to start studying it again if the Government puts forward the proposal a few days later which is known to be unacceptable. Since we cannot afford to spend too much time on the back-and-forth consultations on such a proposal, we will face a lot of difficulties. In view of this, we have to ask the Chief Executive why the proposal is not withdrawn in order to put forward another one which is more likely to meet the people' s aspirations before a consultation exercise is launched. My follow-up question for the Chief Executive is: Can you confirm that this proposal will not be adopted? Or can you tell us that this proposal is adopted only if it can be shown that it is supported by the people and a referendum or survey will be conducted in order to ascertain whether or not the proposal is endorsed by the people? CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): Ms NG, as I have just said, the proposal to be introduced by us is not dictated by superior' s will. I am also quite sure that it is not dictated by Mr Rafael HUI personally either. Rather, it is based on the findings of a long consultation exercise. The results of each round of consultation and the discussion of each open forum have been uploaded onto the Internet. As to how many people have expressed their views or the specific LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 13 October 2005 57 details of their views, I am sure Ms NG and Members are able to take a look. Besides, I also firmly believe that Members would perform their duties in accordance with public wishes. If we have listened to people' s views which are also the mainstream opinions, I am sure Members will also seriously consider the proposal. I do not think this is the right forum for me to discuss the contents of the proposal here. I also believe that the Chief Secretary will soon give Members a full account in due course. I hope Members can then decide whether or not our justifications and thinking behind the proposal have truly reflected all the views collected during the consultation period. I trust Members and we are obliged to consider this issue in a serious manner, rather than just presenting our personal views, either in the capacity of Legislative Council Members or the Chief Executive or the Chief Secretary for Administration. What we have to do is to adhere to the criteria that we are the servants of the people. MS MARGARET NG (in Cantonese): Madam President, the part of my question that has not been answered by the Chief Executive is whether the Government will conduct a survey or referendum. As for the first part of my question, I take it that the Chief Executive has answered it, and that is, the proposal on District Councils will not be withdrawn. (Laughter) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Chief Executive, do you have anything to add? CHIEF EXECUTIVE (in Cantonese): We will conduct a consultation which is our long-standing practice. As to whether a referendum and survey will be conducted, I would like to say that we will do some surveys in the background. Members can also conduct some surveys and opinion polls on their own. However, I think it may not be appropriate to conduct a large-scale referendum on such a sensitive issue.

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