Second Session ·Thirty-FifthLeglslature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 40 Elizabeth II Published underthe authorityof The Honourable DenisC.Rocan Speaker VOL XL No. 14 • 1 :30 p.m., WEDNESDAY, APRIL 3, 1991 MG-8048 ISSN 0542-5492 Printedby the Office of the o.-.s Printer. Provinceof Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Polltlcal Afflllatlon NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ALCOCK, Reg Osborne Liberal ASHTON, Steve Thompson NOP BARRETT,Becky Wellington NOP CARR, James Crescentwood Liberal CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights Liberal CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NOP CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples Liberal CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NOP CONNERY, Edward Portage la Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NOP DOER, Gary Concordia NOP DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER,Albert , Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME,Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James Liberal ENNS,Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS,Clif Interlake NOP EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NOP FILMON,Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen,Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN,Jean Wolseley NOP GAUDRY,Nell St. Boniface Liberal GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NO P HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NOP LAMOUREUX, Kevin lnkster Liberal LATHLIN, Os car The Pas NDP LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY, Jim Elm wood NDP MANNESS,Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NDP McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MclNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Asslnlboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pemblna PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona NDP REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROGAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE,Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NDP STEFANSON,Eri c, Hon. Kirkfleld Park PC STORIE, Jerry Flin Flon NDP SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary FortGarry PC WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NDP WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NDP 573 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, Aprll 3, 1991 The House met at 1 :30 p.m. INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Biil 27-The Health services PRAYERS Insurance Amendment Act (2) ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mrs. Sharon Carstalrs {Leader of the Second PRESENTING REPORTS BY Opposition): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES the honourable member for Crescentwood (Mr. Carr), that Bill 27, The Health Services Insurance Amendment Act (2); Loi no 2 modifiant la Loi sur Mr.Jack Penner {Chairman of the Committeeon l'assurance-maladie, be introduced and that the Economic Development): Mr. Speaker, I take same be now received and read a firsttime. pleasure in presenting the Second Report of the Committeeon Economic Development. Motion agreed to. Mrs. Carstalrs: Mr. Speaker, I have just a few Mr. Clerk {Wllllam Remnant): Your committee comments on the bill itself. This bill is proposed to met on Tuesday, April 2, 1991 , at 10 a.m. in Room ensure twothings: first, that annual inspections be 255 of the Legislative Building to consider the done in nursing homes and hospitals of this province Annual Reports of the Communities Economic to guarantee that we have quality service to the Development Fund for the fiscal years ending March patients and clients who reside therein; and that 31 , 1989, and March 31, 1990. annual audits be conducted of laboratories in the Ms . Loretta Clarke, General Manager, Mr. Harold province to ensure we get the best value for the Westdal, Chairperson, and Mr. Rein Roelofs, taxpayers' dollar in the provinceof Manitoba. Manager of Finance and Corporate Secretary, provided such information as was requested with Introduction of Guests respect to the Annual Reports and business of the Communities Economic Development Fund. Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attentionof honourable members to the gallery, Your committee has considered the Annual where we have with us this afternoon 47 visitors Reports of the Communities Economic from Melville, Saskatchewan. They are from the Development Fund for the fiscal years ending March No. 752 Ed Campbell Royal Canadian Air Cadet 31 , 1989, and March 31, 1990, and has adopted the Squadron. They are under the direction of Captain same as presented. Merv Ozirny. These cadets are guests of the honourable member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. Mr. Penner: I move, seconded by the honourable McAlpine). member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson), that the report of the committee be received. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here this afternoon. Motion agreed to. Also with us this afternoon, from the Grant Park High School we have eighteen Grade 9 students. TABLING OF REPORTS They are under the direction of Ed Lenzman. This school is located in the constituency of the Hon. Donald Orchard (Minister of Health): Mr. honourable Member for Crescentwood (Mr. Carr). Speaker, it is my pleasure to table the Annual Report On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome 1989 of the Department of Health. you here this afternoon. 574 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 3, 1991 ORAL QUESTION PERIOD My question to the Premier is: Given the fact that interest rates have changed and gone down 1 Tender Process percent since the bid date closed the second time, Procedure Changes would the Premier now agree to have an open public tendering process, because the old bids are Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): Mr. stale-dated, so that we can open up the tendering Speaker, yesterday in this House I asked the process and restore Its integrity and also save Premier on three occasions whether it was in fact money, as the Premier alleged yesterday? Treasury Board who changed the process in the tendering from an open public process to a closed Mr. Fttmon: Mr. Speaker, the leader of the bid process. The Premier, in the House, said the Opposition is somehow, I believe, misrepresenting short answer to the question is no. Then the what in fact took place. The bids came in but, Premier went out In the hallway and said, I cannot because of a whole host of reasons, the top three remember. Then he further went with another bidders were not able to meet the requirements of statement that maybe they had rubber-stamped the the tender. A long process had taken place that led approval. to that final time, after a tentative award had been made conditional upon people meeting certain * (1335) requirements. Under those circumstances they did My question to the Premier is: What is the answer not meet the requirements. to the question we asked yesterday? Was it in fact Treasury Board that changed the open public We were faced with having the top three bids being invalid, Mr. Speaker. Because so much time process that had originally been tendered nine months ago to the closed bid process of nine days had taken place, we asked all of the bidders who had previously put forth bids--not gone to different that had been authorized by his government? Who people, not gone to special people. We went to the did it? same people who had bid and said either reconfirm Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): The answer is no, your bid or adjust your bid given the passage of time. Mr. Speaker. People indeed did do that. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, -(interjection)- that is right, Even those people who complained about the bid that is very cute. The Premier thinks it is funny to adjusted their bid downward to reflect the fact that give the same answers that Bill Vander Zalm gave Interest rates had dropped and that construction out In British Columbia-I cannot remember. He costs had dropped. So every one of them who had thinks It is a funny item, a funny way to act. put in a bid was given the same opportunity. All those qualified bidders were given the same Point of Order opportunity. In doing so we saved a million dollars for the taxpayer. A million dollars was saved over Mr. Fllmon: I did not give the same answer. I said the previous low bid award. no, unequivocally. If that is a crime I will take full responsibility for it, Mr.Speaker: The honourable First Minister did not Mr. Speaker, because it is only the New Democratic have a point of order. Party who could argue that you should spend a *** million dollars more of taxpayers' monies- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, given the fact the Premier will not acknowledge the fact that the Treasury Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, when obviously the same Board does in fact have the responsibility to approve criteria is in place now-interestrates have dropped the changes in the tendering process, my question a percent in the last periodof time-you would save to the Premier deals with the second argument even more money and restore the integrity to the yesterday in the House and with the public that the open tendering process by having an open process. reason they had changed from an open public You could take away the business allegations of this tendering processto a closed bid process was that open tendering process. the old bids were stale-dated because "interest rates had changed." * (1340) April 3, 1991 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 575 Maple Leaf Fund GRIP Program Flnanclal Arrangement Review Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): I have Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): A sensitive First a further supplementary question to the Premier. Minister. The Maple Leaf Fundwas involved in partof the Mr. Speaker, yesterday I attended a meeting in financing of the so-called successful bid.