1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE STANDING COMMITTEE ON CONSUMER PROTECTION 2 AND STANDING COMMITTEE ON INVESTIGATIONS AND 3 GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS AND 4 STANDING COMMITTEE ON HOUSING, CONSTRUCTION, AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT 5 ----------------------------------------------------- 6 JOINT PUBLIC HEARING: 7 PUBLIC HEARING ON LONG ISLAND REGARDING REAL ESTATE AGENTS’ DISCRIMINATION OF HOME BUYERS 8 ----------------------------------------------------- 9 Student Center Theater 10 Mack Student Center Hofstra University 11 Hempstead, New York 12 Date: December 12, 2019 Time: 10:00 a.m. 13 14 PRESIDING: 15 Senator Kevin Thomas, Chairman NYS Senate Standing Committee on 16 Consumer Protection 17 Senator James Skoufis, Chairman NYS Senate Standing Committee on 18 Investigations and Government Operations 19 Senator Brian Kavanagh, Chairman NYS Senate Standing Committee on 20 Housing, Construction, and Community Development 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 ALSO PRESENT FROM THE STATE SENATE: 3 Senator Phil Boyle 4 Senator John E. Brooks 5 Senator James Gaughran 6 Senator Todd Kaminsky 7 Senator Anna Kaplan 8 Senator John Liu 9 Senator Monica Martinez 10 11 ALSO PRESENT FROM THE STATE ASSEMBLY: 12 Assemblymember Charles Lavine 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 SPEAKERS: PAGE QUESTIONS 2 Arthur Brown 15 3 "Long Island Divided" Project Director 4 "Newsday" 5 Laura Curran 26 37 County Executive 6 Nassau County 7 Steve Bellone 26 37 County Executive 8 Suffolk County 9 Fred Freiberg 40 61 Co-Founder 10 Fair Housing Justice Center 11 Elaine Gross 40 61 President and CEO 12 Erase Racism 13 M. Ryan Gorman 120 128 President & CEO 14 NRT, LLC (Realogy Holdings Corporation, 15 parent company) 16 Richard Helling 209 209 Tester 17 Johnnie Mae Alston Tester 18 "Newsday" 19 Kimberly A. Kinirons 240 264 Assistant Attorney General, 20 Suffolk Regional Office NYS Attorney General's Office 21 Theresa Sanders 240 264 22 President Urban League of Long Island 23 Lorraine Y. Collins 240 264 24 Director of Policy and External Affairs 25 Enterprise Community Partners, Inc. 4 1 SPEAKERS (continued): PAGE QUESTIONS 2 Moses Seuram 277 283 3 President Duncan MacKenzie 4 CEO NYS Association of Realtors 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5 1 SENATOR THOMAS: Hi, good morning, everyone. 2 Can everyone take their seat? 3 Thank you. 4 Today is December 12, 2019. 5 I want to welcome everyone to the hearing on 6 housing discrimination here on Long Island. 7 I am state Senator Kevin Thomas, a resident 8 of Levittown, and I will talk about that a little 9 shortly. 10 I also represent this district that you are 11 all in right now. 12 I also happen to chair the Consumer 13 Protection Committee. 14 And this hearing is also co-chaired by my 15 colleagues here: 16 We have Senator Skoufis of Investigations 17 Committee, and Senator Kavanagh from the Housing 18 Committee. 19 Along with members of the Long Island 20 delegation, I have Senator Kaminsky and 21 Senator Brooks with me as well. 22 And we'll have more joining. 23 I am a resident of Levittown, and I'm saying 24 that because many of you here know the history of 25 Levittown, and how institutional discrimination 6 1 plagued that community. 2 And after the passage of the Civil Rights Act 3 and the Fair Housing Act, we would think this kind 4 of segregation and discrimination would end. 5 That's hardly the case, and it's evidenced by 6 "Newsday's" investigation, where they found unequal 7 treatment of individuals wanting the American Dream, 8 which is to purchase a house. 9 That's why we are having this hearing. 10 We have a number of panels coming up shortly, 11 so that we can get the facts, get recommendations, 12 and an opportunity for us elected officials that 13 represent you to act. 14 You know, while I sit here, I think of what 15 Martin Luther King said. 16 "An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice 17 everywhere." 18 With that, I'm going to turn this over to my 19 partner here, Senator Skoufis, from the 20 Investigations Committee. 21 Thank you. 22 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you very much, 23 Senator Thomas. 24 And a very good morning to everyone who's 25 here. 7 1 We gather today in an attempt to begin 2 addressing an issue that strikes at the very core of 3 who we are as a state and as a people. 4 Ever since the Dutch and English co-existed 5 in the 1600s, New York State has long possessed a 6 reputation of unmatched embrace and diversity. 7 In the 1690s, accused witches in Salem, 8 Massachusetts, fled their colony for ours, knowing 9 they would find safe, inclusive refuge. 10 In the late nineteenth and early twentieth 11 centuries, New York's harbor would welcome 12 12 million individuals of varied races, ethnicities, 13 and religions, all seeking a shot at the 14 American Dream. 15 And over the last few years, people across 16 our country have looked to New York State for 17 inspiration amidst rampant xenophobia, a dramatic 18 surge in racism, and an unnerving resurgence of hate 19 crimes. 20 That is why, ladies and gentlemen, the issues 21 raised by "Newsday's" recent exposé must begin to be 22 addressed by this body. 23 These alarming allegations run contrary to 24 our proud 400-year history. 25 This is not who we are, or at a minimum, this 8 1 is not who we ought to be. 2 Make no mistake, discrimination has, and 3 likely will, always continue to linger throughout 4 society. 5 But to witness it in such stark, systematic 6 terms, here on Long Island, here in New York State, 7 is offensive, repugnant, and unacceptable. 8 Which brings us to today. 9 Our Senate committees will begin the process 10 of understanding what happened, how it happened, why 11 it happened, and more importantly, what safeguards 12 can be put in place to prevent it from happening 13 again. 14 As a final note, I would like to publicly 15 commend "Newsday" for their enormous undertaking and 16 public service. 17 At a time when some people in our country 18 odiously refer to the press as enemies of the 19 people, "Newsday's" exposé is the latest 20 demonstration of the exact opposite: they're the 21 conscious of our nation. 22 With that, I look forward to today's 23 testimony, and turn it over to my fellow co-chair, 24 Senator Brian Kavanagh. 25 SENATOR KAVANAGH: Thank you, Senator Skoufis 9 1 and Senator Thomas. 2 I will be brief. 3 This is the seventh hearing of the 4 Housing Committee. 5 We have been proud to do one of those 6 hearings previously, jointly, with the 7 Investigations and Government Operations Committee. 8 And I want to also begin by thanking 9 "Newsday" for the extraordinary work over the course 10 of many years. 11 And the -- I also would like to add my thanks 12 to the staff of our committees, and all the 13 committee members, who worked very quickly to pull 14 together this hearing together. 15 It's just a few weeks ago that we were, you 16 know, educated, and some of us enraged, by some of 17 the things we read in "Newsday". 18 And we thought it was very important that we 19 promptly engage in this very public forum, to 20 educate ourselves about what has been uncovered by 21 this investigation, what the various perspectives of 22 the folks involved in the industry, folks 23 responsible for overseeing the industry, are, and 24 hopefully, to look for steps we can take proactively 25 in the coming legislative session. 1 0 1 You know, the Housing Committee has been 2 engaged over the course of the last 11 months in 3 reviewing every aspect of our housing markets 4 throughout the state, with an understanding that 5 most people view housing in New York as an aspect of 6 our society that is in crisis. 7 We have people throughout New York State who 8 are unable to find homes that are adequate, where 9 the quality and safety standards are high, and where 10 they can afford to live and work in our communities 11 and raise their families there. 12 We took tremendous steps to alter the nature 13 of the rental market, not only fundamentally 14 changing the rent-stabilization system in New York, 15 to ensure that we closed loopholes that have, for a 16 very long time, diminished the effectiveness of that 17 system, but also through the Housing Stability and 18 Tenant Protection Act, addressing many inequities 19 between landlords and tenants in every aspect of the 20 manner in which they interact. 21 But we know, we knew even before, you know, 22 "Newsday's" publication on November 17th, that our 23 work is far from done, and that's because we know 24 that: 25 There are affordability issues; 1 1 1 There are people facing foreclosure, and 2 other issues; 3 There are housing-quality issues that we 4 uncovered in a related investigation on code 5 enforcement, and the deficiencies of that system, 6 which is something we'll also be taking up in the 7 next year. 8 But, of course, we know that the -- all the 9 work we do -- all the work we do in government, all 10 the work we do in our communities -- is diminished 11 if New Yorkers cannot count on fair and equal access 12 to housing, regardless of their -- the personal 13 characteristics of themselves and their families.