Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Speaker The Honourable Ben Hanuschak Vol. XVII No. 164 9:30a.m., Thursday, August 6th, 1970. Second Session, 29th Legislature. Printed by R. S. Evans - Queen's Printer for Province of Manitoba ELECTORAL DIVISION NAME ADDRESS ARTHUR J. Douglas Watt Reston, Manitoba ASSINIBOIA Steve Patrick 10 Red Robin Place, Winnipeg 12 BIRTLE-RUSSELL Harry E. Graham Binscarth, Manitoba BRANDON EAST Hon. Leonard S. Evans Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 BRANDON WEST Edward McGill 2228 Princess Ave., Brandon, Man. BURROWS Hon. Ben Hanuschak 11 Aster Ave., Winnipeg 17 CHARLESWOOD Arthur Moug 29 Willow Ridge Rd., Winnipeg 20 CHURCHILL Gordon Wilbert Beard 148 Riverside Drive, Thompson, Man. CRESCENTWOOD Cy Gonick 115 Kingsway, Winnipeg 9 DAUPHIN Hon. Peter Burtniak Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ELMWOOD Russell J. Doern 705 - 33 Kennedy St., Winnipeg 1 EMERSON Gabriel Girard 25 Lomond Blvd., St. Boniface 6 FUN FLON Thomas Barrow Cranberry Portage, Manitoba FORT GARRY L R. (Bud) Sherman 86 Niagara St., Winnipeg 9 FORT ROUGE Mrs. Inez Trueman 179 Oxford St., Winnipeg 9 GIMLI John C. Gottfried 44- 3rd Ave., Gimli, Man. GLADSTONE James Robert Ferguson Gladstone, Manitoba INKSTER Hon. Sidney Green, O.C. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 KILDONAN Peter Fox 627 Prince Rupert Ave., Winnipeg 15 LAC DU BONNET Hon. Sam Uskiw Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 LAKESIDE Harry J. Enns Woodlands, Manitoba LA VERENDRYE Leonard A. Barkman Box 130, Steinbach, Man. LOGAN William Jenkin$ 1287 Alexander Ave., Winnipeg 3 MINNEDOSA Walter Weir Room 250, Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 MORRIS Warner H. Jorgenson Box 185, Morris, Man. OSBORNE lan Turnbull 284 Wildwood Park, Winnipeg 19 PEMBINA George Henderson Manitou, Manitoba POINT DOUGLAS Donald Malinowski 361 Burrows Ave., Winnipeg 4 PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE Gordon E. Johnston Room 248, Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 RADISSON Harry Shafransky 4 Maplehurst Rd., St. Boniface 6 RHINELAND Jacob M. Froese Box 40, Winkler, Manitoba RIEL Donald W. Craik 2 River Lane, Winnipeg 8 RIVER HEIGHTS Sidney Spivak, Q.C. 1516 Mathers Bay, West, Winnipeg 9 ROBLIN J. Wally McKenzie Inglis, Manitoba ROCK LAKE Henry J. Einarson Glenboro, Manitoba ROSSMERE Hon. Ed. Schreyer Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 RUPERTSLAND Jean Allard 602 - 245 Provencher Ave., St. Boniface 6 ST. BONIFACE Laurent L. Desjardins 357 Des Meurons St., St. Boniface 6 ST. GEORGE William Uruski Box 629, Arborg, Manitoba ST. JAMES Hon. A. H. Mackling, Q.C. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ST. JOHNS Hon. Saul Cherniack, Q.C. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ST.MATIHEWS Wally Johannson 15 · 500 Burnell St., Winnipeg 10 ST. VITAL J. A. Hardy 11 Glenlawn Ave., Winnipeg 8 STE. ROSE Gildas Molgat 463 Kingston Crescent, Winnipeg 8 SELKIRK Hon. Howard Pawley Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 SEVEN OAKS Hon. Saul A. Miller Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 SOURIS-KILLARNEY Earl McKellar Nesbitt, Manitoba SPRINGFIELD Hon. Rene E. Toupin Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 STURGEON CREEK Frank Johnston 310 Overdale St., Winnipeg 12 SWAN RIVER James H. Bilton Swan River, Manitoba THE PAS Ron McBryde 531 Greenacres Blvd., Winnipeg 12 THOMPSON Hon. Joseph P. Borowski Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 TRANSCONA Hon. Russell Paulley Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 VIRDEN Morris McGregor Kenton, Manitoba WELLINGTON Hon. Philip Petursson Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 WINNIPEG CENTRE J. R. (Bud) Boyce 777 Winnipeg Ave., Winnipeg 3 WOLSELEY Leonard H. Claydon 116¥.. Sherbrook St., Winnipeg 1 I i -.-1 4241' THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 9:30 o'clock, Thursday, August 6, 1970 Opening Prayer by Mr. ~eaker. MR. SPEAKER: Presenting Petitions; Reading and Receiving Petitions; Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees. 'i REPORTS BY STANDING COMMITTEES MR . .SPEAKER: Adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the Honourable Member for St. Boniface, and the proposed motion of the Honourable Leader of the Official Opposition in amendment thereto. The Honourable House Leader of the Liberal Party. MR. GORDON E. JOHNSTON {Portage la Prairie):. Mr. Speaker, I will not tr.espass on the time of the House to take too many minutes to makP my remarks, but I feel that there .sho:uld be some restating of a position that has been taken by our party. I might say before Lbegfn, though, that I still feel that the manner and method in which Bill 56 has been treated, we are now entering the sixth week of the speedup motion when members are working all.Qay and a good part of the evening and late into the night, that I can hardly blame members from time to, time when they .do become emotional or they do become irritated with one another, ·and I· think in the context that we have been trying to work on Bill 56, there have been errors, shall I say, made by members almost on all sides of the House. I can understand the pressure that the Member for St. Boniface was under when he decided to make known-his views and it is to be hoped that we will be able to reach some sort of a compromise on Bill 56. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to take part in this very important debate on Bill 56 in response to the address delivered yesterday by the First Minister. In so doing, I would like also to associate myself with the implied suggestion by the First Minister that the time has com_e to at least try and put emotionalism aside and to deal with the bill on the basis of logical argun)ent. I take that to be a commitment by the First Minister, that the government is prepared to con-. tinue the debate on this basis, and when I say ''continue" I don't mean that we should sit here week after week and fight over it, but have a reasonable debate over some of the new proposals. We, Mr. Speaker, accept this suggestion and we hope that we will all be able to work in this context, and if we do proceed on this basis I am optimistic that Bill 56 can emerge fro~this House as a law which will be acceptable to the vast majority - not a small majority but the vast majority of the people of Manitoba. And if we do not proceed on this basis it's apparent that the writing is on the wall. Without a greater degree of harmony than has existed to date, it will be impossible for this Legislature to effectively continue its work and the result will have to be an election. In weighing these options, Mr. Speaker, our criteria must be the good of our pJ"OVince and the people we represent, and this should be our guiding principle for the remainder of the discussion on Bill 56, not partisanship or brinksmanship or threats of an election. Eventhe_ most rabid election mongers amongst the members of the House cannot deny that we do have this duty to the people. But there will be no way we will ever reach a consensus . • • HON. RUSSELL PAULLEY (Minister of Labour)(Transcona): I don't want to interrupt my honourable friend but I just didn't catch what his last sentence was. MR. G. JOHNSTON: I said that even the most rabid election mongers amongst us must recognize that we have a duty to the people first; and there's no way that there'll ever be any consensus if we both remain inflexible and stubbornly refuse to assess the other's case on the basis of logical and factual argument. Despite the questions which divide us on this bill, I am confident that we all have one thing in common and that is the desire to provide all Manitoba motorists with the best coverage at the lowest rates. At the outset of this debate, the Liberal caucus had set forth its position quite simply and quite clearly, and I would like to reiterate that position. 1. We endorse the principle of com-­ pulsory insurance for all motorists. 2. We endorse an increase in minimum liability coverage. 3. We endorse the concept of no-fault coverage in all policies. 4. We recommend that the establishment of our Rate Review Board be set up by government. 5. We suggested that all these improvements could be accomplished by regulatory legislation but added that we had no objection to the government" itself entering the. auto insurance business provided this was done in competition with existing companies. It is interesting to note that there is no difference of opinion between our position and that of the government 6n the first four points. Where we remain at loggerheads is on the last 4242 August 6, 1970 (MR. G. JOHNSTON cont'd) .•..point- freedom of choice. Before proceeding further, it should be noted that the First Minister in his address yesterday annotmced several important amendments which would allow existing insurance agents to sell government insurance as well as licence plates. At the same time, improved compen­ sation has been proposed for those agents whose earnings from auto insurance are a minor part of their business and who would have been wiped out or suffered severely with the start up of a state-operated monopoly plan. The First Minister suggested that the amendments would provide Manitobans continued freedom of choice with respect to the agent they feel will give them the best service. There can be no denying that this is an improvement over the govern­ ment's original proposal but it is not real freedom of choice because it would only apply to the agent and not the insurance itself. The important distinction is that freedom of choice in terms of ~surance means competition for the insurance dollar, and competition is the best way tmder the Canadian system to ensure the lowest price.