This is a complete transcript of the oral history interview with Charles Oliver “Dick” Springer (CN 417, T4) for the Billy Graham Center Archives. No spoken words that were recorded are omitted. In a very few cases, the transcribers could not understand what was said, in which case “[unclear]” was inserted. Also, grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" are usually omitted. Readers of this transcript should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and even rule than written English. ... Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker. .... Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence. ( ) Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker. [ ] Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber. This transcript was made by Bob Shuster and Jeff Aernie and was completed in November 2004. Please note: This oral history interview expresses the personal memories and opinions of the interviewee and does not necessarily represent the views or policies of the Billy Graham Center Archives or Wheaton College. © 2018. The Billy Graham Center Archives. All rights reserved. This transcript may be reused with the following publication credit: Used by permission of the Billy Graham Center Archives, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL. BGC Archives CN 417, T4 Transcript - Page 2 Collection 417, Tape 4. Oral history interview with Charles Oliver ADick” Springer by Paul Ericksen on June 19, 1989. ERICKSEN: This is a continuation of an interview with Dick Springer by Paul Ericksen on June nineteenth. It is now 1:15 p.m. Well, we=ve talked about...we=ve gotten all the way up to your leaving China at the...near the end of World War II. I guess you came back in 1947. You were in China for a few more years. Where were you stationed when you came back? SPRINGER: We came back to work...I went to a...I went to Seattle [in 1951] for a while as a pastor for five or six years, because Mao Zedong was kicking people out [of China] and had he known that I would be going to Tai…Taiwan where his enemy ran things...he wouldn=t let any more out. They [the Communist government] didn=t want anyone going to...to Chiang Kai-shek=s area. So we didn=t go to Taiwan for a while. We stood by and a way opened to go to Taiwan. And we were there five or six years. I was a pastor. And then the way opened to go and I could do that. ERICKSEN: Now did you...when you left China in 1951, did you then leave the mission. Or what was your status with CIM at that point? SPRINGER: It was...that I would come under the management of and support of the Presbyterian Church USA. I joined that group there. I was always a member of that denomination. ERICKSEN: Uh-huh. SPRINGER: In...in the a presbytery in another part of the state. This required shifting into a different presbytery but it was the Seattle one. So I was there. I=m still a member of that one. ERICKSEN: And then did you need to reapply to... SPRINGER: Yeah. ERICKSEN: ...CIM? Was your application process....how was it different? SPRINGER: Well, they knew me, knew whether they wanted me or not. And it was in the best interest of us that we joined when we did, in that to have a continuing relationship and a pension and... ERICKSEN: Uh-huh. SPRINGER: ...that would be necessary that we identify with a mission about that time, which we were able to do. And it was good for all concerned. Then in Taiwan we had numbers of kinds of activity, starting with working Tai-nan (Nan means south), the southern part of the state or the province. And I was attempting to meet an emergency of the mission. The mission had been led to write a missionary magazine. It was called DengTa. Meant Lighthouse. Good name. But they had no concept of how to promote it. They turned out a good article, but they were not schooled in promotion, distribution. And they were in trouble, >cause they needed to have so much being sold © 2018. The Billy Graham Center Archives. All rights reserved. This transcript may be reused with the following publication credit: Used by permission of the Billy Graham Center Archives, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL. BGC Archives CN 417, T4 Transcript - Page 3 in order to cover things. Originally they had wanted me to come back to work with the military, because I had worked with the military along the front in China and got along with them well. So that was the idea. And then it changed because this magazine needed a promoter. And I was the sanguine...that type that could do it, they thought. So I entered into that program and became known all over the island as Mr. DengTa. And a lot of them didn=t know my real name. But I identified myself with magazine. And when they=d see Springer coming in a crowd, they=d say AUh-oh, I gotta renew my subscription or something.” And I was already to do that for them. So we worked it up to at least four thousand subscribers. Some books places [sic] had on more, but was not that dependable. So that was my work my first stay out there. ERICKSEN: How did you...how did you find working on...on that? SPRINGER: Well, it was quite an adventure. I=d never done it. It was all new to me. And I had never done very much in the way of business. And this would require that. And preferably...and later I got someone else to do this who had a business background. Well, we got along those three or four years. And while there, one of the missionaries...a Presbyterian minister had to retire and in his mind he selected Marion and myself to take the...their cut...place in a Bible school. Which would be excellent in that Marion was superb in that job. And so from that we went to Shinju where the Presbyterians had a Bible school. And in Shinju I got into writing Bible lessons. And on my staff I had people who could speak in Taiwanese and in Japanese, English, Mandarin. So I would churn something out in English and go over it with them and they=d churn it out in the other languages. So we had four languages going in this program. And that helped us get the four thousand and we had some from far afield and other parts of the Pacific. And that was very satisfying experience. And, of course, my advice to the people in the future would be to remember that a magazine is editing and printing and distribution and promotion of it. And not to forget that. We learned it the hard way. ERICKSEN: What were some of the difficulties you had? SPRINGER: Well, my difficulties were that there was no network to work with. We had to create our own. And people promoting a magazine from a stand and so on. They could be very negligent about paying their bills. And I didn=t understand the lingo of some of those places. And it was...took a lot of time and patience to work with these fellows. So, preferably, we were working with the missionaries. The idea being to...through pastors see that this type of magazine, which fifteen percent of it was evangelical saving the soul people. The other would be various things that they=d be interested in like type...photograph work and things like that as come-on. And that was very popular. The idea that the pastors, the local teacher would recommend it and we would help see that they got a supply of these things or had a mailing address whereby they go on the list. And it seemed to work rather well. Leaving it to people to sell to unbelievers or without any proper pushing wasn=t so good. We=d do what we could while we could. And we were working mostly. I would go to a conference and they would say AOh here=s Mr. DengTa.” And then they would renew or make more subscriptions at the time. And cumulatively it was getting better and better that way. But I realized that I was not trained as a businessman so when we had one, I...I transferred the work to him and he did a very good job. That was [E. W.] Ayken [?]. Francis= husband. And he passed © 2018. The Billy Graham Center Archives. All rights reserved. This transcript may be reused with the following publication credit: Used by permission of the Billy Graham Center Archives, Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL. BGC Archives CN 417, T4 Transcript - Page 4 away in a couple years, so then someone else took it on. Then it wasn=t printed for some reason. It just didn=t pay. ERICKSEN: Uh.... SPRINGER: While...while we=re in this [meaning, Awhile we are talking about this part of my life”] we were transfered to.... In this Bible house where I was working in Shinju, we could see that an unfortunate attitude was expressed by the local pastors that mountain people were non-persons. And...for instance a very fine man that was with me in that faculty, if he went to the mountains he had to have it understood with these mountain people that he would just be over there...up there >til supper time and get out.