*. NORMAN BROWNLEE 1 Reel I [of 4]-Digest-Retype May 5, 1961 Also present: Richard B. Alien. ', This intervieiw was conducted at 7th and Jackson streets [the home of Norman Brownlee] in Pensacola [Florida], Brownlee says that the Invincibles [band] dates from a long time ^-or'i^ ^f-f <-. ago. In it were (:t*mi2;£rM'Naf£?i, Teddy [Fontelieu?] [check sp.], Had Farrar, Red Mackey, and Doc Souchon played with the band a couple of times. Brownlee played terrapatch, ukulele, and for a short while played banjo, but in his [own] orchestra Billy Eastwood played the banjo, and really played it well. (Paul Whiteman made [Mike] Pingatore ^ come and listen to Eastwood one day.), Charlie Hartman played trom- bone with Brownlee's band in the old days, and was always fine. Brownlee says he can recall many funny stories about his sax section. He goes on to say the Pinky [Vidacovich] played sax with him a few times/ as did [Hal] Jordy and Johnny Reininger, One time Al Galladoro, one of the greatest saxophonists of the day, according to Brcwnlee, played with the band, but he was not hired again because he wouldn't "team" with the other saxes. Brownlee was born in the Algiers section of New Orleans at 232 Verret St., on February 7, 1896. The family later lived on Olivier Street and. then moved to 407 Delaronde Street. Brownlee recalls that the house there had a cupola which overlooked the river; the storm of 1915 destroyed the roof of the house, and the cupola was never » * NORMAN BROWNIiEE 2 Reel I [of 4] "Digest-Retype May 5, 1961 restored. Brownlee recalls that his father would call "the gan9" in f ''I some nights, whistling to them across at the drug store corner; the father would award prizes for the winners in the various games/ and also for the person who could sing or play the best tune. There was an Edison cylinder recording machine, and they would make records; the drums would be simulated toy tapping two pencils on the horn of the recording machine. All the Brownlee family-three girls (one named Lillian), two boys (including Norman) , the mother and the father played piano, and Norman says he has played piano for as long as he can remember. Brownlee says he is not good; he hits them "loud and wrong," as he says Louis [Armstrong] told Monk Hazel, in reference to his [own playing with his?] [Hot] Five. Brownlee's father played cup [mouthpiec6] tnstrument®; he played baritone with [what he thinks was called] the Algiers Brass Band. He says that communities had brass bands in those days, centered around the firehouses? he thinks some concerts were played in the "belfriea" of some of the firehouses, the ":belfr^y"\^ being the place where the fire alarm bell was hung. Brownlee says Algiers was referred to as "over da river^" and he says it is "the Brooklyn of t5vs South." RBA says he occasionally sees Roy p<?V^t^1^ ? "Whitey" [Qa^tw^e^?}, a nephew of the [well-known musicians] Brunie s boys [George, Merritt, Abbie, etc.]. Brownlee says the Brunies family was originally from Gretna^ which is separated from Algiers by » v NORMAN BROWNLEE 3 Reel I [of 4]-Digest-Retype May 5, 1961 McDonoghville, although he says the area has developed so much that J \ there is no separation now* Brownlee says everybody [the people he played with] faked in the old days, that they never bothered to read music. He learned to read treble clef on the cornef, and bass clef on the bass violin; he became quite proficient on bgss, as well as reading well. He has played string bass with his own orchestra for a long time [in New Or- leans and Pensacola]. (Brownlee and RBA discuss the New Orleans Jazz Club and its museum, among other things, and Brownlee mentions that several people from the Pensacola area are members of the club, among them being Stirling Turner, an official of the Chemstrand Corporation.) Brownlee mentions that he was at one time with the [c, G.] Conn Co, in New Or- leans, and that he and A. J. Lacoste had the instrument repair con" cession at Werlein's. Lacoste was supposed to retire and buy a farm in Baldwin County^ Alabama/ but Brownlee doesn't know whatever became of him. Brownlee says that Oscar Marcour could play more with eight inches of the fiddle bow [on the violin, of course] tha1i\ most people could play with the wliole thing. Marcour also played a little bit of trumpet, and Brownlee's band sometimes used three.and four trumpets for introductions, Marcour and his violin playing fit into the i, NORMAN BROWNLEE 4 Reel I [of 4]-Digest-Retype May 5, 1961 Brownlee band very well. Joe Loyacano is remembered as being a very / 1 .I good man on troiabone ^ and Brownlee says he thinks he is now playing only string bass. RBA mentions that his nickname is "Hook," because of his nose, and Brownlee says it was once said that Loyacano was the only man who could smoke a cigarette in the shower- RBA says that Loyacano was very sick recently, and that the [New Orleans] Jazz Club held a Isenefit for him; RBA mentions that Joe Loyacano's older brother. Bud, died recently/ and Brownlee says that Bud was a bass player, Brownlee says that he had a drummer/ Alonzo Crumbie, who was called "Ironfoot" because of his steady beat? once the tempo had been kicked off [Brownlee says that Crumble would tell him not to count to two unless he meant it, because he would be gone with the beat) "You could go home and come back, and he'd still have it." He played with the band, never trying to be a soloist. Brofwnlee says that when he himself played tenor guitar and banjo, the way to play was with the band^ never as a solQist, RBA mentions that Oscar Marcour told him of a home recording that Brownlee, piano. Crumble, drums, Einmett Hardy, [comet]. Billy Eafitwood, banjo, and Oscar Marcour on violin made. The Dorseys, [Jimmy and Tommy} wanted the record [of a copy of it], and Monk Hazel, had wired Brownlee to that effect; they particularly wanted "Wang Wang Blues." Brownlee said he thought that Oscar or Mickey Marcour hdd the record, because they were the last to have * NORMAN BROWNLEE 5 Reel I [of 4]"-Digest"Retype May 5, 1961 the old Edison machine. Brownlee says he would venture to say that / T >, Emmett Hardy was one of .the first people to make a comet say "wa wa"- in later years Harmon, of Baltimore, Maryland developed a mute which is called the "Wa Wa" mute. Many people got the same effect with a plumber's plunger* Hardy went on a vaudeville tour once with Benny Fields and Blossom Seeleyy he did a snake dance in front of a famous shimmy dancer, [See Reel II, p !(&] as part of the show. They may have played Pantime [Pantages?] and Keith circuits. Brownlee and his band [with Hardyl got to meet a lot ,of vaudeville acts, and the people in the acts liked Hardy? Brownlee says he was different from anybody else, too. Hardy once went to Davenport, Iowa, where Bix [Beiderbecke] lived; Bix was playing piano at the time. Brcywnlee says Bix would come listen to Hardy play, and that he thinks Hardy helped Blx a lot to learn to play the comet, and that actually he taught him how to hold a comet. Brcwnlee says that in later years Bix told him that Hardy was one of the greatest, when Bix came to New Orleans with [Paul] Whiteman, Brownlee says there was a trumpet player named Walter Holzhaus who was around New Orleans for a while; after serving some years in the navy, he went back to Texas. About four months later, Brawnlee and to Johnny Finley [is Lloyd Finlay?] [sp?] of Houston, Texas were in a booth listening to a recording made by Finley and his band; the year f NORMAN BROWNIiEE 6 Reel I [of 4]"-Digest-Retype May 5, 1961 was 1923 or 1924, about the same time that Brownlee's band recorded. / 1 As they were listening, someone came up l^ehind Brownlee, put his hands over Brownlee's eyes and asked Brownlee to guess who it was. It was Walter Holzhausi who was in town with Paul Whiteman's orchestra, Holzhaus had replaced Frank Siegrist in the orchestra; others in the group at tlie time were Buzzie, [Henry Busse?], Goldy [Harry Goldfield?] [on trumpet?]. Harry MacDonald on drums and [Izzy] Friedman on clari- net< Brownlee got Snoozer Quinn an audition with Whiteman, and White- man had Snoozer join the orchestra in Cleveland [, Ohio], right after some automobile show [that the Whiteman orchestra played? PRC]7 Snoozer played with Whiteman for quite some time, Brofwnlee says that Oscar Marcour, who has died, was also connected in some way with the undertaking business; he was in the vault manu- facturing business* selling vaults for funerals. Brownlee is office manager for Bayview Memorial Park. Speaking of being in the under- taking business reminds Broiwnlee of musician friends who have died- He mentions that Mickey Marcour, who has died, was a fine, steady piano player, he played for years at the Halfway House, with Abbie Brunies- RBA mentions that Richie Brunies has also died within the last couple of weeks, and that Merritt Brunies is playing in Biloxi, according to a sign he saw en route to Pensacola.