1 Transcription: Interview with Annie Machon File: AM cam A.mp4 N Timecodes Speaker Text 1 00:00:00,000 Interviewer for the sound to start off with I could have you state 00:00:10,680 your name and what you had for breakfast today. 2 00:00:10,680 Annie My name is Annie Machon 00:00:12,260 Machon 3 00:00:12,269 Annie and I had a nice buttery croissant for breakfast. 00:00:14,589 Machon 4 00:00:14,589 Interviewer lovely 00:00:16,589 5 00:00:17,920 Interviewer Annie thank you for making this interviews 00:00:28,890 6 00:00:28,890 Interviewer today. We are basically making interviews for the 00:00:29,859 7 00:00:29,859 Interviewer interview archive. going histories simple village 00:00:34,399 8 00:00:34,399 Interviewer and like first I would like togo back even 00:00:38,149 9 00:00:38,149 Interviewer before you were recruited in the early 90th, as I 00:00:42,890 understand. 10 00:00:42,890 Interviewer But maybe you could go before how you were 00:00:46,590 educated , what your education 11 00:00:46,590 Interviewer was and the time leading up to to you time in MI5 00:00:52,289 12 00:00:52,289 Annie My education was fortunate. I grew up 00:00:55,090 Machon 13 00:00:55,090 Annie in the Channel Islands. I come from Gernsy families, 00:00:59,850 Machon where we had an education 14 00:00:59,850 Annie that was quite old-fashioned so there was the 00:01:02,359 Machon 15 00:01:02,359 Annie year 11 class, I passed that to go to a public school 00:01:04,890 Machon 16 00:01:04,890 Annie and then i got a scholarship to go to Cambridge 00:01:07,630 Machon university. 17 00:01:07,630 Annie So it was emm... yeah it was a a good education 00:01:11,070 Machon 18 00:01:11,070 Annie I ended up reading classics and it turns out that the 00:01:15,500 Machon intelligence agencies 19 00:01:15,500 Annie recruit a lot classisists from Uxbridge. I don't know why 00:01:19,500 Machon 20 00:01:19,500 Annie but they do so ehm come nineteen ninety I apply to the 00:01:25,140 Machon Foreign Office 'cous I 21 00:01:25,140 Annie quite fancy career as a diplomat and then I get this 00:01:29,840 Machon mysterious letter on 22 00:01:29,840 Annie ministry of defense notepaper saying we may have 1 2 Transcription: Interview with Annie Machon File: AM cam A.mp4 00:01:32,299 Machon other jobs that you 23 00:01:32,299 Annie might find more interesting so ehm my initial got 00:01:37,350 Machon response was 24 00:01:37,350 Annie ohh fuck its MI5, I don't know why. and it turned out I 00:01:43,530 Machon was right but I was 25 00:01:43,530 Annie going to ignore it because all it said was if you're 00:01:46,450 Machon interested please ring this 26 00:01:46,450 Annie number and at that point MI5 had a really filthy 00:01:50,509 Machon reputation in the wake of 27 00:01:50,509 Annie the eighty scandals with Clive Ponting and Kathy 00:01:54,579 Machon Massiter and spy 28 00:01:54,579 Annie catcher and everything and the miners strike so I was 00:01:58,159 Machon going to 29 00:01:58,159 Annie ignore it because I just didn't get involved in something 00:02:00,689 Machon 30 00:02:00,689 Annie murky like that and emm my father who was an 00:02:05,420 Machon investigative 31 00:02:05,420 Annie journalist, became the editor of the newspaper in 00:02:09,220 Machon Gurnsy eventually 32 00:02:09,220 Annie and was also this huge spy aficionado he loved John 00:02:12,640 Machon le 33 00:02:12,640 Annie Carre and things like that was in the room when I 00:02:14,750 Machon opened the letter 34 00:02:14,750 Annie so he just said ohh please we need to see if it is MI5 00:02:16,840 Machon 35 00:02:16,840 Annie to see if you are right and so that was that really. Ten 00:02:21,780 Machon months later start working 36 00:02:21,780 Annie as an intelligence officer and it was funny because I 00:02:27,319 Machon remember when I was a child 37 00:02:27,319 Annie watching... sitting up late with my dad you know.. 00:02:29,370 Machon 38 00:02:29,370 Annie I must have been like 11 years old or something 00:02:33,010 Machon watching the Alec Guinness 39 00:02:33,010 Annie version of Smiley's people Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy 00:02:36,150 Machon 40 00:02:36,150 Annie and just thinking god this is grim. Who would want to 00:02:39,879 Machon live in a world like this 41 00:02:39,879 Annie populated with these gray misfits, these depressive 00:02:45,190 Machon people. 42 00:02:45,190 Annie it was horrible so that's why I was sort of quite anti-spy 00:02:48,470 Machon as well. 43 00:02:48,470 Annie The cultural thing that dad seemed to find riveting 00:02:50,370 Machon 2 3 Transcription: Interview with Annie Machon File: AM cam A.mp4 44 00:02:50,370 Annie erm but anyway.. I still fell into it 00:02:53,300 Machon 45 00:02:53,310 Interviewer you mention the image of the agency before but also 00:02:55,780 had gone through certain reforms at that point to what 46 00:02:55,790 Interviewer kind organization was it in your opinion that you 00:03:05,750 stepped into at that time? 47 00:03:05,750 Annie hmm No it's interesting because they approach me 00:03:08,080 Machon 48 00:03:08,080 Annie soon after massive reforms that was supposed to put 00:03:11,379 Machon them on legal footing 49 00:03:11,379 Annie for first time so as I mentioned they had this really bad 00:03:15,739 Machon reputation in the eighties 50 00:03:15,739 Annie because if the miner strike particularly and the 00:03:19,569 Machon politicization of intelligence 51 00:03:19,569 Annie however because the whistle-blowing scandals like 00:03:23,269 Machon spy-catcher 52 00:03:23,269 Annie the law had been reformed in 1989 so there were two 00:03:28,120 Machon steps one was the... MI5 53 00:03:28,120 Annie was put on a special legal footing for the first time 00:03:30,780 Machon 54 00:03:30,780 Annie with the security service act which meant that the first 00:03:34,080 Machon time in eight years 55 00:03:34,080 Annie they officially existed and that MP's in Parliament could 00:03:37,730 Machon of 56 00:03:37,730 Annie questions about them they couldn't actually investigate 00:03:39,940 Machon what they 57 00:03:39,940 Annie were doing but you know, technically there was 00:03:43,099 Machon oversight. 58 00:03:43,099 Annie and also as a counterbalance to that increased 00:03:48,580 Machon legitimacy they reformed 59 00:03:48,580 Annie the Official Secrets Act 1911 which was there to 00:03:51,769 Machon prosecute traitors 60 00:03:51,769 Annie and they put in place the 1989 act section 11 of which 00:03:55,640 Machon 61 00:03:55,640 Annie specifically precludes whistleblowing criminalizes 00:03:59,239 Machon whistleblowing. 62 00:03:59,239 Annie So anyone who is a current or former intelligence 00:04:05,730 Machon officer for MI5 or any of the 63 00:04:05,730 Annie other intelligence agencies and anyone who is a 00:04:09,569 Machon notified person for 64 00:04:09,569 Annie the purposes of the Official Secrets Act which include 00:04:12,650 Machon senior government 65 00:04:12,650 Annie personnel people like the Prime Minister and the 3 4 Transcription: Interview with Annie Machon File: AM cam A.mp4 00:04:15,239 Machon ministers 66 00:04:15,239 Annie and spin-doctors even like Alastair Campbell will be 00:04:18,840 Machon notified 67 00:04:18,840 Annie for the purposes of the Act if they breathe a word 00:04:22,250 Machon about 68 00:04:22,250 Annie their work apart from the agency with which they work 00:04:25,639 Machon 69 00:04:25,639 Annie they are de facto breaking the law so the 89 act is very 00:04:30,020 Machon clearly there 70 00:04:30,020 Annie just to prevent whistleblowing.