Second Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LX No. 11A – 10 a.m., Tuesday, December 4, 2007 ISSN 0542-5492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 321 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, December 4, 2007 The House met at 10 a.m. in part as a result of all the efforts that we have made in promoting the use of phosphorus-free automatic PRAYER dishwasher detergents, I think it's quite clear that ORDERS OF THE DAY there wouldn’t be a major problem in having enough supply for the Manitoba market as of January 1, PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BUSINESS 2010. Certainly the fact that it would be required SECOND READINGS–PUBLIC BILLS would mean that stores would have to put it in and, because of the volume, I believe that it would have a Bill 201–The Phosphorus-Free nice effect in reducing prices because of the larger Dishwashing Detergent Act volume of phosphorus-free automatic dishwasher detergents that are being used. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I move, seconded by the MLA for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux), We should not have to wait for the slow that Bill 201, The Phosphorus-Free Dishwashing government, NDP. We should be able to move Detergent Act; Loi sur les détergents à vaisselle sans forward quicker than the NDP are hoping to move phosphore, be now read a second time and be because, quite frankly, Lake Winnipeg is in pretty referred to a committee of this House. severe shape right now. You only have to go up and see the extent of the algal blooms in September on Motion presented. Lake Winnipeg, to talk to fishermen to get an Mr. Gerrard: We are re-introducing a bill that we understanding of how severe this problem is. We first introduced approximately a year ago. This is a should not be waiting an extra year and a half, we bill which is designed to drastically reduce the should be acting as soon as it can be and, I believe, amount of phosphorus in automatic dishwashing that we should be able to act as of January 1, 2009. detergents. As we all know, the government has The other area which is of importance is the decided, rather than supporting this bill, so far– commercial uses of phosphorus-free automatic maybe they will support this bill–to introduce their dishwasher detergent. The problem in the own bill to reduce phosphorus in automatic government’s bill is that it’s not clear how they are dishwasher detergents; but we have decided to move going to treat commercial uses of automatic ahead and re-introduce this bill because we see that it dishwasher detergent. In fact, from comments by the has certain advantages and benefits over the government it looks like they are probably going to government bill. give an exemption. About half the phosphorus that is This bill would move more quickly than the delivered to Lake Winnipeg from the automatic government bill and, specifically, this would dishwasher detergents actually comes from the drastically limit the amount of phosphorus that could commercial or industrial uses, and so we would only be used in automatic dishwasher detergents for be doing half the job if we don’t include commercial household use on or after January 1, 2009. It is our and industrial uses of automatic dishwasher view that this time line is a better time line than the detergent. This is clearly an important reason for government’s time line in their bill. The government supporting our bill because it provides that we would is trying to bring the changes in for July 1, 2010, be banning automatic dishwasher detergent use for which would be a year and a half later. Certainly, commercial purposes as of January 1, 2012. That with all the delays that have occurred to date in gives commercial operations a little bit more time, taking action on Lake Winnipeg by this government, but it brings them fully under the umbrella of the act it seems strange that they would want to delay even rather than having the potential to make an exception further the measures requiring phosphorus-free for commercial uses, which make up approximately automatic dishwasher detergent. half of the phosphorus in automatic dishwasher detergent. In our view, our act is quicker, more Given the fact that there has been a dramatic comprehensive, and I would suggest that indeed it is increase in availability of phosphorus-free automatic simpler, by focussing on automatic dishwasher dishwasher detergents in Manitoba over the last year, detergent. 322 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 4, 2007 I don’t have a particular problem with including including this one, and I would ask for all MLAs to all the various other cleaning substances which are in support our legislation and to enable us to move the NDP act and including them for July 1, 2010, but forward in cleaning up Lake Winnipeg. I do think we do need to move more quickly on the Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Good use of automatic dishwasher detergent because it morning, Mr. Speaker. It is my pleasure and makes up by far the largest component of the privilege to stand today to speak to the bill put phosphorus which now ends up in Lake Winnipeg. forward by the two members of the independent * (10:10) party on phosphorus reduction and, although I would compliment them on their positive thinking and The problem that we face in terms of action on focus on the environment, I do have to say that I see Lake Winnipeg is that if we fail to act we could end some deficiencies in this particular bill and think that up with a situation where, all of a sudden, the algal those were recognized by the government and the blooms have progressed to the extent that they are Minister of Water Stewardship, and although it took eating up oxygen-producing toxins, and the result is, us a little longer, we did apply sober second thought or could be, that we have a dramatic reduction in the to it and, as a result, put together Bill 8, The fish in Lake Winnipeg. None of us wants that. Phosphorus Reduction Act, which I think is a little Already it's very clear and it's interesting listening to more comprehensive, a little more broad-based. It people who have been on the lake for many, many seems the Liberals are focussing specifically on years. dishwasher detergents, but there's an infinite variety At a meeting in Gimli I talked to a boat captain of sources of phosphorus within the ecosphere, so I and he was talking about how in the '40s and '50s don’t think that it’s really all that sound in thinking and '60s you could just go over the side of the boat to just limit it to one particular component. So I and scoop up some water, and the water in Lake would put that forward as the first fault that I see in Winnipeg was such a quality that it was fit to drink. this particular proposal and the reason why I would That is not the case anymore. It is so gummed up suggest that the bill put forward by the minister with algal blooms that the quality of the water in makes a lot more sense.