NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES STANDING COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT, ANALYSIS, AND INVESTIGATION PUBLIC HEARING ON GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT OF FORENSIC SCIENCE LABORATORIES 250 Broadway, New York, New York Assembly Hearing Room 1923, 19th Floor Wednesday, February 8, 2017 10:00 A.M. -- 2:15 P.M. Page 2 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 ASSEMBLY MEMBERS PRESENT: ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOSEPH LENTOL Chair, Assembly Standing Committee On Codes ASSEMBLY MEMBER HELENE WEINSTEIN Chair, Assembly Standing Committee On Judiciary ASSEMBLY MEMBER MATTHEW TITONE Chair, Assembly Standing Committee On Oversight, Analysis and Investigation ASSEMBLY MEMBER CHARLES LAVINE ASSEMBLY MEMBER JO ANNE SIMON Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 3 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 INDEX WITNESS Page Panel: Erin Murphy 11 Professor, New York University School of Law Marvin E. Schechter 31 Attorney Panel: Barry Scheck 79 Co-Director, The Innocence Project Former Commission Member, NYS Commission on Forensic Science Sarah Chu 124 Senior Forensic Policy Associate, The Innocence Project Scott McNamara 128 District Attorney, Oneida County The District Attorneys Association of NY Roger Muse 158 Vice President of Business Development ANSI-ASQ National Accreditation Board (ANAB) Panel: Richard Torres 178 Attorney, The Legal Aid Society Benjamin Ostrer 188 Attorney, Ostrer and Associates, PC Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 4 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 Panel: Sumana Harihareswara 197 Founder and Principal, Changeset Consulting Rebecca Wexler 210 Resident, The Data and Society Research Institute Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 5 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 2 (The public hearing commenced at 10:00 3 A.M.) 4 ASSEMBLY MEMBER JOSEPH LENTOL, CHAIR, 5 ASSEMBLY STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES: May I ask 6 everybody to be seated please? We’re going to 7 begin the hearing. We were just waiting for our 8 first witness but he’s not here yet. And we’ll 9 take him later on in the day if he shows up. So, 10 good morning everyone. 11 ALL: Good morning. 12 ASSEMBLY MEMBER LENTOL: I’m Assemblyman 13 Joe Lentol and I’m Chairman of the Assembly Codes 14 Committee. And I’m pleased to be joined by Helene 15 Weinstein, who is Chair of the Assembly Judiciary 16 Committee. And we’re expecting Matt Titone. 17 ASSEMBLY MEMBER MATTHEW TITONE, CHAIR, 18 ASSEMBLY STANDING COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT, 19 ANALYSIS AND INVESTIGATION: Yes, we are. 20 ASSEMBLY MEMBER LENTOL: And here he is. 21 And he came all the way from Staten Island to be 22 here with us. And Matt is Chair of the Oversight, 23 Analysis and Investigation Committee. I would 24 like to thank all of you for attending this Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 6 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 2 morning and participating in this very important 3 hearing. Maybe the first one of its kind outside 4 of the Forensic Science Commission having 5 hearings, at least by the Assembly, that I can 6 recall. Many of you also have traveled long 7 distances to be here. And I know I speak for all 8 my colleagues when I say how much we appreciate 9 your being here and your efforts. 10 New York State’s modern criminal justice 11 system relies on evidence gathered at crime 12 scenes, including fingerprints and DNA. This 13 evidence is processed through science 14 laboratories and assists law enforcement and 15 prosecutors in investigations which can lead to 16 conviction of a suspect. Disturbingly however in 17 recent years, there have been several instances 18 of misconduct in forensic labs and elsewhere in 19 the country, resulting in errors and falsified 20 results. These errors can range from systematic 21 failures to inexperience of staff, to failures in 22 following protocol. 23 The breakdowns could have been avoided 24 if there had been appropriate oversight in place Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 7 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 2 I think. And a very frightening possibility that 3 errors committed in the analysis of handling 4 evidence might lead to a wrongful conviction 5 because, my God, we have enough wrongful 6 convictions already; should not be overlooked or 7 minimized. 8 Given the public’s reliance, having 9 watched all of the TV shows about crime and DNA 10 and law and order, that you know how important 11 DNA is in the public’s mind. So misplaced faith 12 in the integrity of poorly supervised and rarely 13 reviewed laboratories could lead to many innocent 14 prisoners languishing in our State prisons. So 15 this hearing is to examine what oversight 16 currently exists for forensic labs in New York 17 and how we as Legislators can work to make a 18 better system that ensures appropriate practices 19 are in place and that forensic labs are 20 appropriately supervised. 21 Before we begin I would like to note 22 that the State Police and the Office of the 23 Inspector General were all invited to testify but 24 they unfortunately chose not to appear. Division Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 8 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 2 of Criminal Justice Services and the Medical 3 Examiner of New York City and the New York Civil 4 Liberties Union were unable to attend today but 5 they all have or will be submitting testimony, 6 just so that you know that. 7 With that, let’s get started. I’d like 8 to ask witnesses to first introduce yourself and 9 what organization you represent. And as a 10 reminder, we expect this to be a long hearing and 11 we want to limit witnesses in their testimony to 12 ten minutes; so that we can ensure that all of 13 those testifying get a chance to testify and an 14 opportunity to be heard and enough time for us 15 the Members to ask you questions. So remember, 16 please introduce yourselves for the record. 17 And the first witness will be another 18 first in New York State. This is the first Skype 19 witness that has ever testified before an 20 Assembly Committee. I don’t know about Senate 21 Committees. And that witness will be Barry 22 Scheck, Co-Director. Now he’s on a panel with 23 Sarah Chu. Is she in the audience or is she also 24 on Skype? Sarah, why don’t you step up and sit Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 9 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 2 and introduce yourself. And we’ll let Barry 3 introduce himself by Skype and I hope we can hear 4 him because I know all of you want to hear what 5 he has to say and so do I. Does anybody else 6 before we begin, any Member have a statement to 7 make? Matt Titone? 8 ASSEMBLY MEMBER TITONE: Certainly, 9 sure. Just while we’re waiting -- 10 ASSEMBLY MEMBER LENTOL: Chairman 11 Titone. 12 ASSEMBLY MEMBER TITONE: Thank you, 13 Chairman Lentol. Chairman Lentol actually had 14 mentioned that this is one of the first of its 15 kind that we’ve ever had but it certainly is in 16 my mind one of the more important ones that we 17 will be doing this year. It’s important not only 18 to victims and their families but to an accused 19 and their families but also to law enforcement; 20 because law enforcement needs to know and our 21 district attorneys need to know that the evidence 22 that they are presenting to we the people is 23 accurate and reliable. So, I think this is a 24 really great step towards ensuring true justice Geneva Worldwide, Inc. 256 West 38th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10018 Page 10 1 STANDING COMMITTEE ON CODES ET. AL. 2-08-17 2 in the State of New York. 3 ASSEMBLY MEMBER LENTOL: Thank you, 4 Matt. Are we having trouble electronically 5 already? I always pull out the plug and then plug 6 it back in. While we’re waiting, I just want to 7 take this time to thank the staff of the Assembly 8 Codes Committee and the Assembly Judiciary 9 Committee for assisting in the preparation of 10 this hearing, especially Nate Jenkins, who’s 11 sitting in the back, who did most of the legwork 12 to get you all here and to prepare us for this 13 important hearing. Thank you, Nate. And thank 14 you, Nadia, for being here as well, for helping 15 as well. Maybe Sarah can start with her testimony 16 and we can wait until we -- yeah, we can do an 17 audio? This is an example of how technology can 18 fail us. I know it’s not our tech wizards in the 19 back because they spent all day yesterday and 20 today trying to prepare us for this Skype 21 testimony. 22 We can go to the next witness and call 23 him next; alright, Sarah? Okay, let’s do that 24 instead of delaying.