Bowdoin College Bowdoin Digital Commons George J. Mitchell Oral History Project Special Collections and Archives 5-14-2008 Interview with Larry Pope by Andrea L’Hommedieu Laurence 'Larry' E. Pope Follow this and additional works at: https://digitalcommons.bowdoin.edu/mitchelloralhistory Part of the Law and Politics Commons, Oral History Commons, Political History Commons, and the United States History Commons Recommended Citation Pope, Laurence 'Larry' E., "Interview with Larry Pope by Andrea L’Hommedieu" (2008). George J. Mitchell Oral History Project. 46. https://digitalcommons.bowdoin.edu/mitchelloralhistory/46 This Interview is brought to you for free and open access by the Special Collections and Archives at Bowdoin Digital Commons. It has been accepted for inclusion in George J. Mitchell Oral History Project by an authorized administrator of Bowdoin Digital Commons. For more information, please contact [email protected]. George J. Mitchell Oral History Project Special Collections & Archives, Bowdoin College Library, 3000 College Sta., Brunswick, Maine 04011 © Bowdoin College Laurence E. Pope GMOH# 013 (Interviewer: Andrea L’Hommedieu) May 15, 2008 Andrea L’Hommedieu: This is an interview for George J. Mitchell Oral History Project. The date is May 15, 2008. I’m here at the Hawthorne-Longfellow Library at Bowdoin College with Laurence “Larry” Pope. This is Andrea L’Hommedieu. Could you start, Mr. Pope, just by giving me your full name? Laurence Pope: Yes, my name is Laurence Pope, and Laurence Everett Pope is the middle initial. AL: And where and when were you born? LP: I was born in New Haven, Connecticut, on September 24, 1945. AL: Is that the area in which you grew up? LP: No, my father was studying Japanese at Yale University at the time, and so that’s why we were there. But I grew up around Boston mainly, Braintree, Massachusetts. AL: And what was Boston like in those years that you were growing up, in the ‘50s? LP: Yes, this is growing up in the ‘50s, and we lived in the suburbs in Braintree, in a tract house, and everybody had two children and one dog and one cat, and preferably one girl and one boy, that was sort of the standard issue. And everybody was white and mostly Anglo-Saxon Protestants and – there was a great sameness, it was the 1950s in America. AL: Where did you get your feelings about going into the Foreign Service? Was part of that growing up wanting to learn more about the rest of the world, in terms of the small vision that you had? LP: I don’t know, perhaps. Maybe it was something. I went to Bowdoin College here, this fine institution, as an undergraduate, and I graduated in 1967, and when I graduated I couldn’t think of anything else to do really, so I took the Foreign Service examination, which then and now was a written and an oral examination, and for some reason passed it and so decided to go into the Foreign Service. It was 1967, though, and people like me were being drafted into the Vietnam War, and I didn’t Page 1 of 13 particularly care for, I didn’t like that prospect, so rather than waiting around to be appointed to the Foreign Service, I went into the Peace Corps and I spent a couple of years doing that, and at the conclusion of that couple of years joined the Foreign Service. It was in the end of 1969. AL: What were your experiences like at Bowdoin, in terms of were there professors that really influenced you, or were you a good student? LP: I was a mediocre student, and I, it was, you know, it was a time in America when it was, and Bowdoin was a very different place then than it is today, of course, all men, dominated by the fraternity system, and I fell into that sort of situation quite easily. But I went off in my junior year to France, which was not something that most people did in those days, I think there was one other person in my Bowdoin class of 1967 who left the college. So that got me out of Brunswick and it gave me a little bit of a, I was delighted to get out of Brunswick and delighted to get away from Bowdoin and happy to be in Paris for that year. Came back my senior year and I was really quite, really quite disaffected, I would say. Angry about the world, angry about the state of things, and happy to find somebody who would hire me in the Foreign Service. AL: Now, the Foreign Service, you began that in 1970? LP: Yeah, at the end of 1967, ‘69 rather, because you know, I’d done the Peace Corps, a couple of years in the Peace Corps, and then joined the Foreign Service. And so, oh, I can’t remember when, in September, October, something like that, maybe in August of 1969, right when I came back from the Peace Corps. I went down to Washington and took the training program, and ended up in Vietnam as a consular officer. AL: And what sort of languages did you have to study or be -? LP: Well, I had French at that time because I’d been in France of course, and that was about it. AL: Now, I’ve read that you spent thirty-one years as a diplomat between D.C. and the Middle East. LP: Yes, about ten years in Washington and another, most, about half and half I suppose, overseas and in Washington. After my first assignment in Saigon I came back, studied Arabic, and the remainder of my career was spent most of the time dealing with issues involving Arabs in the Middle East. And I’d like just to finish that, I can finish that up quickly and bring us to the present, bring us to 2000 when I, 2001. But I had been ambassador in Chad, having been, having worked on counterterrorism in the State Department, and then Iran and Iraq, those two countries. And my Page 2 of 13 last job was working for a guy named Tony Zinni, General Tony Zinni who was then the commander in chief down at CENTCOM, the regional commander, based in Tampa, Florida, and I worked for him for three years as his political advisor. And at the end of those three years, I was nominated by President Clinton to be ambassador to Kuwait. But, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee at that time, which was chaired by a fellow named Jesse Helms, a curmudgeonly old gentleman who really detested the State Department and all of its works, and Trent Lott, who was the majority leader of the Senate, those two folks were very angry at General Zinni, because General Zinni had taken issue with a piece of legislation called the Iraq Liberation Act. Now, that was adopted in 1998 and it was, the premise of it was that if we just gave some money to a fellow named Ahmed Chalabi, that he would be able to liberate Iraq all by himself – we might have to provide some air cover and that sort of thing. And so this act of Congress, which passed virtually unanimously in the Senate and with an overwhelming majority in the House, was an absurd piece of legislation, which directed us, that is the United States government, to provide something like a hundred million dollars, in excess defense articles, surplus property, non-lethal property, to Chalabi and his fellows. And in addition, some money was supposed to be directed to this organization which was called the Iraqi National Congress, or the INC. But Zinni, who was the commander in chief of the area, took a very dim view of this legislation. And when he was asked his view of it he said, “Well, it’s the law, but I think it’s a lousy law.” So the sponsors of the legislation, who included Senators Helms and Lott, were furious at Zinni. They couldn’t quite fire him, they couldn’t take him on; they couldn’t get at him. So when my name came before them for a confirmation hearing, they were happy to retaliate. And they did so – and if anybody’s interested at this late date, there’s an article in the Washington Post of October 1st, I think, by a man named John Lancaster, which was about all of this. Because I left Washington in a sort of a high dudgeon after the Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff told me that they wouldn’t hold a hearing, but if I came back, if I waited around until next year they’d confirm me for something else. And I thought that was pretty bad stuff, so I quit. I quit, or I retired, which is another way to put it, because I had been in the Foreign Service for thirty-one years, and my wife Betsy and I came up to, drove up to Maine, where we’ve stayed more or less ever since. And it’s at that point that the State Department recommended me to Senator Mitchell as a possible staff director for the committee, the Sharm el-Sheikh Fact-Finding, International Fact-Finding Commission, to give its full name, which he had agreed to, which he had agreed with President Clinton that he would chair. AL: Now, is this the first time where you’ve had interaction with Senator Mitchell? LP: Yes, it was, it was the first time. And I remember he called me at my house in Portland and asked me if I would do this, and I’d be the one that he would call of course, and I said, “Yes, I’d be happy to.” It gave me something to do.