SecondSession • Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on PUBLIC UTILITIES and NATURAL RESOURCES 40 Elizabeth II Chairman Mr. Ben SVfMnson Constituencyof La Verendrye VOL. XL No.2· 8 p.m., TUESDAY, MARCH 19, 1991 MG-8048 ISSN 0713-9454 Printed by the Office of the OUH<IS Printer. Province of Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thlrty·FifthLegislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY. ALCOCK, Reg Osborne Liberal ASHTON, Steve Thompson NDP BARRETT, Becky Wellington NDP CARR, James Crescentwood Liberal CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights Liberal CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NDP CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples Liberal CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NDP CONNERY, Edward Portage Ia Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACOUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DOER, Gary Concordia NDP DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James Liberal ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Clif Interlake NDP EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NDP FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NDP GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface Liberal GIUESHAMMER, Harold,Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NDP HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NDP LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Liberal LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NDP LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NDP McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NDP PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona NDP REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob TurtleMountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway NDP STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirktield Park PC STORIE, Jerry Rin Flon NDP SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary FortGarry PC WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns NDP WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NDP 27 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLYOF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBUC UTIUTIES AND NATURAL RESOURCES Tuesday, March 19, 1991 TIME-S p.m. schedule, Selkirk will receive theservice in 1992. Do they begin paying for that service in 1991? LOCATION-Winnipeg, Manitoba Mr.Dennis Wardrop (ActingPresident and Chief CHAIRMAN-Mr.Ben Svelnson (LaVerendrye) ExecutiveOfficer, Manitoba Telephone System): ATTENDANCE- 10- QUORUM- 6 Mr. Chairman, I beg your pardon. I did not hear the last phrase of thequestion. Members of the Committeepresent: Hon. Messrs. Enns, Findlay Mr.Dewar: The Selkirk area will get this service in 1992. When will they begin paying for thisservice? Messrs. Alcock, Dewar, Evans (Interlake), Helwer, McAlpine, Penner, Mrs. Render, Mr. Mr. Wardrop: The date of 19921s only tentative at Sveinson this point In that it Is pending the decision of the APPEARING: Manitoba Public Utilities Board with regard to the start-up ofthe program.Depending upon thatdate, Dennis Wardrop, Acting President and Chief there may be some minor adjustments to the Executive Officer,Manitoba Telephone System schedule required. However, if it were to occur in Bill Fraser, Vice-President Finance, Manitoba 1992, then Selkirk itself is at the present time In an TelephoneSystem extended area boundary, I believe. Just let me Tom Stefanson, Chairman, Manitoba check that. Yes, Selkirk is partof an extended area TelephoneSystem boundaryat the present time,so they would receive their rate increase at the timethat the programwas MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: restarted. All areas that are currently receiving Annual Report for the Manitoba Telephone extended area service will experience the rate System for theyear ended December 31, 1988 adjustment at the time that the program restarts in and December 31, 1989 that they already are receivinga formof Community Calling, in that they have an expanded area of * * * calling. Mr.Dewar: So, If Selkirk gets the service in 1992, I call the Standing Committee on Mr. Chairman: they begin paying for it in 1992? Public Utilities and Natural Resources to order to continue considering the Annual Reports of the Mr.Wardrop: Theywould begin at the restartof the Manitoba Telephone System for the fiscal years program, which would likely be in 1991. endingDecember31, 1988 andDecember31, 1989. Mr. Dewar: Will other areas receive this service in * (2005) 1990? There are some areas that will be receiving I believe that we were about to pass the 1988 theservice this year. Are they exempted from paying report. Shall the Annual Report for the Manitoba until next year, until 1991? Telephone System for the fiscal year ending * (2010) December 31, 1988 pass--pass. Mr. Wardrop: All communities at the start of We will go on to consider the 1989. Community Calling will certainly be on the rate Mr. Gregory Dewar (Selkirk): I have a question schedule.Some that are already receiving a form of again dealing with Community Calling and Community Calling, which is our Extended Area specifically the Selkirk area. According to the program at the present time, a larger flat-rate calling 28 LEGISlATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 19, 1991 area, would begin paying initially at the start-up of it has to be ruled on. The concept behind the the program, which would be this year in 1991. program is that those who are receiving an expanded calling areaservice would pay either at Mr. Dewar: When, under the old program, were Riverton, Arborg, Hecla to receive the additional start-up or at the date they first received expanded calling areas. calling exchanges underthe old Community Calling application? The Public Utilities Board had previously Mr. Wardrop: The exchange of Riverton was reminded us in their last ruling that it was important scheduled under the old program to receive for us to correct what they called anomalies in Community Calling to Arborg, Hecla, Pine Dock, which, without such an arrangement, certain Poplarfield and Vidir in 1994 and to their adjacent communities would have access to calling of a exchange of Gimli in 1994. I would also ask, could certain size of community or area and would be you refresh my memory on theother communities? paying a significantly different rate than other There was an interes\- communities that perhaps had the same size but received it later. Mr.Dewar: That Is fine. I was wondering, when will, say, Riverton receive thatservice now? * (2015) Mr.Wa rdrop:As I indicated earlier, the schedule will By arranging our rate schedule in this way we undergo some changes depending upon the date overcome those anomalies, and we feel it is a fair of start-upthat will be ruled on by the Public Utilities and equitable basis that those who are indeed Board. However, it would be my feeling at the receiving an expanded calling area service would present time that by 1994we wouldhave caught up, be required to pay, andthose who are not receiving so to speak, with the former schedule and, in all it would not be required to pay until such time as likelihood, they would receive it in 1994. It is our theyreceived some form of expandedcalling. intention to still complete the program by 1996. There probably would be some delay, perhaps in Mr. Dewar: What were the criteria that MTS used in the firstyear's schedule,and that is about all, thefirst establishing when an area would get expanded year or two. service? Mr. Dewar: Another question is, when would they Mr.Wardrop: Mr. Chairman, therewere a number start paying for it? of factors that weighedInto any community in terms of the timing of the introduction of it. There were a Mr.Wardrop: The communities of Riverton, Vidir number of prerequisite requirements. One of them and Arborg would begin payment of the 15- or was that we had already established a digital switch 20-cent rate at start-up of the program in that they base in the community, an infrastructure that we are currently in an expanded calling area. As such, were in a position to program construction in that theywould bedeemed to have an expanded calling area at that time. It was a combination of many serviceright at start-up,and theywould beginto pay factors like that which led to the particular choice of at that time. year that was most suitable for expansion in various Mr.Dewar: Youthink the start-upwould be in 1991, areas. so they will startpaying for a servicein 1991, which they will not get until 1994? We also attempted to spread the expansion around theprovince on as equitable a basis as was Mr. Wardrop: Mr. Chairman, in the interveningtime practical in terms of year by year, recognizing that frame, they would have received expanded calflng there are certain economies in doing a whole area to Vidir and Arborg. What will be added in 1994 at once. lt was factors of that nature that went into it. would be Hecla, Pine Dock, Poplarfield and adjacency to Gimli, in the case of Arborg and Mr. Dewar: Yesterday I raised in the House with the Riverton. minister concerned-itwas brought to our attention dealing with successful bidders on MTS contracts. Mr. Dewar: Do you think this will cause a problem Apparently some contractorswere hired from out of with subscribers? province and they were awarded contracts. He Mr. Wardrop: This, of course, as you know, is a virtually imported all of his stafffrom out of province, filing before the Manitoba Public Utilities Board and and he paid wages substantially below the Manitoba March 19, 1991 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 29 heavy construction wage. Is the president aware of Mr. Wardrop: I would imagine that, if such was the such a thing ever occurring before? case, the Department of Labour would take the necessary actions, if indeed a contractor had been Mr.