UNCORRECTED TRANSCRIPT OF ORAL EVIDENCE To be published as HC 1099-i HOUSE OF COMMONS ORAL EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT COMMITTEE THE PRIORITIES FOR THE NEW DIRECTOR-GENERAL OF THE BBC THURSDAY 25 APRIL 2013 LORD HALL OF BIRKENHEAD CBE and RT HON LORD PATTEN OF BARNES CH Evidence heard in Public Questions 1 - 158 USE OF THE TRANSCRIPT 1. This is an uncorrected transcript of evidence taken in public and reported to the House. The transcript has been placed on the internet on the authority of the Committee, and copies have been made available by the Vote Office for the use of Members and others. 2. Any public use of, or reference to, the contents should make clear that neither witnesses nor Members have had the opportunity to correct the record. The transcript is not yet an approved formal record of these proceedings. 3. Members who receive this for the purpose of correcting questions addressed by them to witnesses are asked to send corrections to the Committee Assistant. 4. Prospective witnesses may receive this in preparation for any written or oral evidence they may in due course give to the Committee. 1 Oral Evidence Taken before the Culture, Media and Sport Committee on Thursday 25 April 2013 Members present: Mr John Whittingdale (Chair) Mr Ben Bradshaw Angie Bray Conor Burns Philip Davies Paul Farrelly Mr John Leech Steve Rotheram Jim Sheridan Mr Gerry Sutcliffe ________________ Examination of Witnesses Witnesses: Lord Hall of Birkenhead, CBE, Director-General, BBC, and Rt Hon Lord Patten of Barnes, CH, Chairman, BBC Trust, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Good morning. This morning the Committee is considering the priorities for the new Director-General of the BBC, and I am pleased to welcome the Chairman of the BBC Trust, Lord Patten, and the new Director-General, Lord Tony Hall. It is worth observing I think, Tony, that you are the fourth Director-General within a year to be appearing before us in this Committee, so we hope we shall be seeing you again. Lord Hall of Birkenhead: I shall think about that carefully when I leave this place. Chair: I understand you would like to say a few words before we begin. Lord Hall of Birkenhead: Thank you very much, Chairman, I really appreciate the time to say a few words of introduction. I thought what I would say is a little bit about how I have approached the first three weeks in the job. First of all, I now have a top team in place. That strikes me—and struck me when I got this job—as something that I should try to achieve quickly with the right mixture of talented insiders, and also bringing in the right talent from outside as well, and then getting that team to work together properly. I am really pleased; I do think we have a group of people there who can lead the BBC forward. The second thing I have been doing is going around the country—and indeed around London—meeting people. I have been to Cardiff. I have been to Bristol. I have been to Birmingham. I have been to Salford. I am going to Northern Ireland at the crack of dawn tomorrow, and I am going to Scotland next week. I have talked to staff openly about what I hope we can do with the BBC but also issues facing the BBC. I have talked to programme- makers and I have also talked to external partners in a number of places, because I think their perspective on the BBC is crucial and interesting. As I said on day one, all of those conversations are to help me and the BBC shape the next chapter for the BBC and give a sense of where the BBC should be going. I hope to have that work completed by September/October. There are three things I want to do before then; first of all, I want to begin making a simpler BBC. There are brilliant people doing some fantastic programmes, but there is too 2 much bureaucracy, too many processes and too many structures that hinder rather than help the programme-makers. We need to deal with this and do so in a specific and concrete way that makes a difference to their lives and helps them to make great programmes. Secondly, we also need a BBC that is in tune with the times. Like everybody else we have to deal with efficiency savings and cuts, so we have to do the same with less. Everyone else is doing that; so should we. But we cannot be tone-deaf to what licence fee-payers—the public out there—have said to us about pay-offs for redundancies and so on. So, I have announced this morning that we will consult on a £150,000 cap on redundancy and severance payments to affect all senior management, old and new. We have to deal with this problem. The level of some payments wasn’t right. I hope that will deal with the problem clearly for the public. I must point out that is in line with the civil service, which is why we chose the £150,000 cap. Thirdly, we have to continue to rebuild trust in the BBC. The Corporation has been through a really difficult time—you know that, I know that—but not as difficult as those who were directly affected by Savile and others. We need to learn the lessons of Pollard and the Rose review—which will be coming out shortly—and take those absolutely and clearly on board. But I just want to say one other thing, and it is a bit personal. I have had a fantastic and inspiring first three-and-a-bit weeks. It is a remarkably creative organisation. I have talked about news. I have talked about local radio and its importance to music. I have seen a 3D Natural History Unit film of going through a reef, which is absolutely stunning, and— among others—I have talked to the Food Programme about black puddings, one of my favourite dishes. So I feel optimistic about the future of the BBC. That is not to say there isn’t a very large job that I have to do. Thank you, Chairman. Q2 Chair: Thank you. We will come on to look at a number of the areas you have raised in more detail. When you say you want to see a simpler BBC, does that mean, firstly, a smaller BBC, is it a BBC doing less, and does it mean a BBC with fewer middle managers? Lord Hall of Birkenhead: That is what I am talking to staff about as I go around the BBC on how we can free them up. I think what happens with organisations is they accrete layers or they accrete regulations or they accrete roles. I want nothing that is going to be reckless. I want nothing that takes the commonsense from all our managers about what they should refer and what they shouldn’t refer to senior managers. However, I do want a sense that managers are empowered to both excite people and to make great programmes, but also empowered to take responsibility for their decisions. As I go around the BBC, in some areas there are some absolutely brilliant things going on that I would like to see applied across the BBC. For example, in Salford, there are some remarkably exciting projects going on there that, again, I think we could learn from. Q3 Angie Bray: Lord Hall, were you surprised to be offered the Director-General’s job, given that you had not actually applied for it? Lord Hall of Birkenhead: The honest answer to that is I was surprised to be offered the job; to be invited to have a conversation with the Chairman. Like others, I watched in huge sadness at what was happening at the BBC. I have said in other places, and I say to you, the only thing that would have made me move from a job I enjoyed, and got huge satisfaction from, would be the BBC. I am there because the BBC was in crisis. I felt I should return to the BBC and do what I can to repair the BBC, but also to take it on to great things. Q4 Angie Bray: The offer came out of the blue, did it? Lord Hall of Birkenhead: Yes. It happened in a matter of days, yes. 3 Q5 Angie Bray: You did apply for the job yourself in 1999 and on that occasion failed to get it. What do you think has changed that made you not suitable for the job then but very suitable—in fact, so suitable that there were no other people considered—this time round? Lord Hall of Birkenhead: I applied once. I have not applied on other occasions, because I was extremely happy in my life in music, in ballet and in the arts generally. I hope what is different this time, but I am not complacent about this, is that having been outside the BBC for 12 years, having understood the impact the BBC can have on culture, having seen the impact the BBC can have on the Olympics—they were crucial in all sorts of things, not just in the sport but also in the culture too—I can bring that sense of having seen the organisation from the outside and help to repair it inside, and I think that an outsider’s perspective is important to any leadership role.