Funding for the Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program NEA Jazz Master interview was provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. HANK JONES NEA Jazz Master (1989) Interviewee: Hank Jones (July 31, 1918 – May 16, 2010) Interviewer: Bill Brower Date: November 26-27, 2004 Repository: Archives Center, National Museum of American History Description: Transcript, pp. 134 Hank Jones: I was over there for about two and a half weeks doing a promotional tour. I had done a couple of CDs; one was with my brother Elvin and Richard Davis, the bass player. They made – – I think they made two releases from that date. And I did another date with Jack DeJohnette and John Patitucci. But, these two albums were the objects of the promotion. I mean, they promote very, very heavily everyday. I must have had 40 interviews and about 30 record signings at the record shops, plus all of the recording. We did seven concerts and people inevitably want the records, CDs of the concert for us to sign. I have a trio over there, with Jimmy Cobb and John Fink. It was called, “The Great Jazz Trio.” It was not my name, but the Japanese have special names for everything, you know? That's only one in a series of tree others which he called the great jazz trio. The first one was Ron Carter, Tony Williams and myself. But, there had been a succession of different changes in personnel. It changed about six times. The current one was Jimmy Cobb and Dave Fink--Oh, the cookies have arrived and not a minute too soon. Oh yeah, by the way if you would like little ice cream to go with that that is also available. No, thank you. I've better not; it interferes with my talking. Bill Brauer: Shall I I.D? Today is Friday, November 26th in the year 2004. My name is William A. Brauer Junior. I am in the home of Hank Jones, conducting an oral history interview for the Smithsonian's Jazz Oral history project. Following your For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 1 curious logic, let's talk about how, since we are there, we are here now… You were talking about your recent China to Japan. When did you exactly go over? Jones: I went over there the second. I think it was second of November. No, it was the first actually. You know, it takes a day to get over there. But, the day you arrive is awkward. You take a half a day off, and then you work the next day. It started third actually. It went about two weeks, a little over two weeks actually. It was very difficult. There was something going on every day, many, many autographs, many record signings and CD signings, which of course, was the object of the trip because it's a promotional trip to promote CDs or two or more CDs I had done previously. It was very necessary. It seems, the Japanese have the right idea about selling records. The American companies, by and large, always say that they can't make money playing jazz because they don't take the right steps to promote sales. You have to promote, you have to exploit, you have to distribute. The Japanese do all these things so they sell records. And they do very well. The people around Japan, I very jazz conscious. They like all types of music, I think particularly jazz. So, it is very pleasant. There is a lot of work, but it was pleasant. Brauer: Part of what was released… I guess the – – in 2002, in May, you are in Japan recording with your brother Elvin and with Richard Davis. Out of that came to releases "Autumn Leaves" and "Someday My Prince Will Come." Jones: Exactly, incidentally, that was then and in New York. Brauer: That was done in New York, okay. Jones: It was at Avatar Studios. Brauer: When did you… You have done a lot with the Japanese, and almost a whole, sort of... In your career which might be related to the great jazz trios and the various incarnations, how did that great – – Where did the idea of The Great Jazz Trio start? Jones: It started, the idea of the great jazz trio started, with two A&R men who used to work at East Wind Records. They were both with East Wind at the time. Yasahachi Ito, sometimes known as 88 because he used to play piano. And Kyoshi Ito, no relation, who was also a musician but he didn't play piano. They were the ones he came up with the idea, The Great Jazz Trio. It was their appellation, not mine. That would be pretentious if I named my jazz trio The Great Jazz Trio. It had some fine points; I don't know whether it was great. Actually, whether or not it was great, it is someone else's decision to make, not mine. But, they called it The Great Jazz Trio. That consisted of Ron Carter on bass, Tony Williams on drums, and myself. The first recordings took place at the Village Vanguard, downtown in New York. It was recorded live at the Vanguard. For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 2 Brauer: Wasn’t that Buster on that? Jones: I’m sorry? Brauer: Wasn’t Buster Williams on that? Jones: No. Buster was part of a later group called The Great Jazz Trio. Buster was in that along with Grady Tate, as the drummer, I believe if I'm not mistaken. But there were several incarnations of The Great Jazz Trio. The present one, the one that we toured in Japan with was with Jimmy Cobb on drums, David Finck on bass. Brauer: How do you spell Finck? Jones: F-i-n-c-k…good bass player. Incidentally David was a school at Eastman School of music in Rochester, New York. I did a clinic up there 17 or 18 years ago. He was a student at the time. I had seen him maybe once since then. I was working on the job out in Long Island with Hal McKusick and David Finck was the bass player. I didn't remember him then, he reminded me that he was a student when I did the clinic. Brauer: Now, somewhere along the line where you eat you have gone, Tony Williams’ name comes up as having to do with the idea for this trio. Is that not accurate? Jones: It may have been. Certainly, he was a member of that group, but, as far as I know, he wasn't concerned with the actual meaning of the group. That was… That name was presented by the Japanese, or suggested or, you know…He told the two Itos, no relation, it was their idea. Who knows? It may have, from somebody higher and the company as far as I know. They were the two A&R men who actually did the legwork. Brauer: Was it their idea to assemble that actual trio, Tony and Ron, with you? Jones: Yes. Brauer: It doesn't mean it's correct, but the way that the information that I have come about, on that first recording at Vanguard, in fact Ron was not there. Buster was on that recording in 1976. Is that about the time that this all got going? Jones: Well, I am not sure about the date but I can tell you that Buster did not become a member of the group until much later. Ron Carter and Tony Williams… It is like, that was the time we first played together, it was at the Vanguard. That's where the recording was made. For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 3 Brauer: There is another piece of stuff that is floating around then maybe you can clear out. Did the gentleman who had the Vanguard in the light you to sort of come in there to play? Have you been performing? Jones: Max Gordon? Brauer: Yes, Max Gordon. Jones: I had played the Vanguard years before that. When I first came to New York, and what was it? It was late 1945 or 1946. I worked with Page. The first job that I played was at the Onyx club on 52nd street. The next job I played was at the Vanguard with Hot Lips Page. Back in those days, it had to be 1946. Maybe it was 1945? That was the first time I worked there and, of course, these recordings with The Great Jazz Trio took place many years later. I had played at the Vanguard maybe a couple of times prior to the time that I did a recording with the trio. So, the club itself was familiar to me. I was never very happy, I don't know if I should say is not, I was never very happy by the acoustics in there. I don't think a nightclub setting is the ideal place to record, because you can control the sound. (Something crashes in the background) You can control the extraneous sounds, like that. I hope those were not the cookies! (Laughs) Brauer: What’s Max Gordon’s wife’s name? Jones: Wait a minute. I can't think of it. I have heard her name. Brauer: She is notorious for patting around in the Vanguard kitchen, so we got a little bit of the same atmosphere.