Texas Department of Transportation

1 1 21 TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2 3 TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION MEETING 4 5 6 Dewitt Greer Building 7 125 East 11th Street 8 Austin, Texas 9 10 9:00 a.m. 11 Thursday, 12 November 15, 2001 13 14 15 COMMISSION MEMBERS: 16 17 ROBERT L. NICHOLS, Presiding Member 18 RIC WILLIAMSON 19 20 STAFF: 21 22 MIKE BEHRENS, Executive Director 23 RICHARD MONROE, General Counsel 24 HELEN HAVELKA, Executive Assistant to the 25 Deputy Executive Director 263 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 2 21 I N D E X 2AGENDA ITEM: PAGE: 3 4CONVENE MEETING...... 7 5 61. PUBLIC HEARING 7 SPEAKER 8 Senator Robert Duncan, District 28...... 25 9 Stephen Raines, for Representative John Shields....31 10 Kevin Evans, President, Ports-to-Plains Trade 11 Corridor Coalition...... 38 12 Larry Hertel, City Engineer, City of Lubbock...... 39 13 Bob Anderson, County Commissioner, Hood County.....40 14 Tommy Eden, Austin...... 41 15 162. DELEGATIONS: 17 a. BIG SPRING CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 18 Request funding for a US 87 relief route 19 west of Big Spring...... 45 20 b. CITY OF WICHITA FALLS 21 Request funding to construct an interchange 22 at US 287 and US 82/277 and complete the 23 freeway section on US 82/277 between FM 24 369 and the BNSF Railroad in Wichita 25 Falls...... 65 26 273. Approval of Minutes of the October 25, 2001, 28 regular meeting of the Texas Transportation 29 Commission...... 82 30 314. Resolution 32 Resolution recognizing the retirement of Kirby 33 W. Pickett, deputy executive director, for his 34 40+ years of service with the Texas Department 35 of Transportation...... 82 36 375. Report 38 Grand Parkway Association - Pursuant to 43 TAC 39 §15.90(b), provide annual report on the status 40 of projects and activities undertaken during 41 the preceding 12 months...... 85 42 436. Aviation 44 a. Various Counties - Approve the Routine3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 3 21 Airport Maintenance Program through 2 FY 2002 (MO)...... 100 3 b. Various Counties - Various Sponsors - 4 Approve funding for airport improvement 5 projects at various locations across the 6 state (MO)...... 100 77. Public Transportation 8 a. Various Counties - Award Federal Section 9 5313 funds to the Texas Transit Association 10 to plan and present the 2002 transit 11 conference (MO)...... 139 12 b. Victoria County - Approve the use of toll 13 credits for the City of Victoria for the 14 purchase of transit vehicles (MO)...... 142 15 168. Promulgation of Administrative Rules Under Title 17 43, Texas Administrative Code, Pursuant to the 18 Administrative Procedure Act, the Government 19 Code, Chapter 2001: 20 a. Proposed Adoption 21 (1) Chapter 21 - Right of Way (MO) 22 Repeal of §§21.111-21.117, and New 23 §§21.111-21.117, Relocation 24 Assistance and Benefits...... deferred 25 26 (2) Chapter 50 - Management and Chapter 27 53 - Contracting and Procurement 28 Procedures (Texas Turnpike Authority) 29 (MO) 30 Repeal of Chapter 50, Management, 31 §§53.60-53.71, Disadvantaged Business 32 Enterprise/Historically Underutilized 33 Business Program, and §§53.90-53.94, 34 Contract Workforce...... deferred 35 36 b. Final Adoption 37 (1) Chapter 5 - Finance (MO) 38 New §5.11, Charges for Dishonored 39 Checks (Collection of Debts)...... 143 40 41 (2) Chapter 9 - Contract Management (MO) 42 New §9.9, Interlocal Contracts...... 144 43 44 (3) Chapter 17 - Vehicle Titles and3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 4 21 Registration (MO) 2 Amendments to §17.24 and §17.28, 3 Disabled Person License Plates and 4 Identification Placards and Special 5 Category License Plates, Symbols, Tabs, 6 and Other Devices (Motor Vehicle 7 Registration)...... 144 8 9 (4) Chapter 25 - Traffic Operations 10 a. New §25.2, Load Limits on County 11 Roads and Bridges (MO)...... 145 12 138. Promulgation of Administrative Rules 14 b. Final Adoption 15 (4) Chapter 25 - Traffic Operations (Cont’d) 16 b. New §§25.500-25.503, Safe Routes 17 to School Program (MO)...... 147 18 19 (5) Chapter 28 - Oversize and Overweight 20 Vehicles and Loads (MO) 21 Amendments to §§28.11, 28.13, and 22 28.14, General Permits and §28.30, 23 Permits for Over Axle and Over Gross 24 Weight Tolerances...... 149 25 269. Transportation Planning 27 a. Various Counties - Approve adjustments to 28 participation ratios for projects located in 29 economically disadvantaged counties 30 (MO)...... 150 31 b. Collin and Hunt Counties - Authorize the 32 department to enter into a grant funding 33 agreement with Northeast Texas (NETEX) 34 Rural Rail District to acquire an abandoned 35 railroad right of way (MO)...... 151 36 3710. State Infrastructure Bank 38 Williamson County - City of Leander - In 39 accordance with 43 TAC 6.32(c), consider 40 preliminary approval of an application from 41 the City of Leander to borrow $7,900,000 from 42 the State Infrastructure Bank to pay for the 43 purchase of right of way, relocation of 44 utilities, and engineering and construction of 45 a new FM 2243 extending from the Travis County 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 5 21 line to just east of Parmer Lane in Leander 2 (MO)...... 152 3 411. Texas Turnpike Authority 5 a. Establish contract approval and 6 administration procedures for the Texas 7 Turnpike Authority Division (MO)...... deferred 8 b. Travis and Hays Counties - Authorize the 9 department to negotiate an exclusive 10 development agreement with Transportation 11 Corridor Constructors for the development 12 of SH 45 South from FM 1626 to US 183 as 13 a turnpike project (MO)...... 103 143 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 6 2112. Contracts 2 a. Award or rejection of highway improvement 3 contracts: 4 (1) Maintenance (MO)...... 155 5 (2) Highway and Building Construction 6 (MO)...... 156 7 b. Contract Claim 8 Upshur County - Project RMC 603351001 - 9 Claim by Taylor Mowing Service for 10 additional compensation (MO)...... 157 11 1213. Routine Minute Orders...... 158 13 a. Speed Zones 14 Various Counties - Establish or alter 15 regulatory and construction speed zones on 16 various sections of highways in the state 17 (MO) 18 19 b. Load Zones 20 Various Counties - Revise load restrictions 21 on various roads and bridges on the state 22 highway system (MO) 23 24 c. Right of Way Disposition, Purchase and 25 Lease 26 (1) Harris County - US 59 at Penn Street 27 in Houston - Consider the sale of 28 surplus right of way (MO) 29 (2) Kaufman County - FM 148 at County Road 30 305 west of Terrell - Consider the 31 sale of surplus right of way (MO) 32 (3) Tarrant County - FM 1709 at Country 33 Brook Drive in Keller - Consider the 34 future exchange of drainage easements 35 (MO) 36 (4) Upshur County - US 271 at Monroe 37 Street in Gilmer - Consider the sale 38 of a surplus maintenance site (MO) 39 40 d. Approval of Donations 41 (1) Travis County - Spirit of Texas Drive 42 and SH 71 in Austin - Approve a 43 donation from Austin-Bergstrom Airport 44 Center, Ltd., to fund relocation and 45 upgrades of traffic signals (MO) 46 (2) Wise County - SH 114 and Shale Creek 47 Drive near Rhome - Approve a donation 48 from L.N.W. Real Estate Ltd., to fund 49 the installation of a traffic signal 50 (MO)3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 7 2113. Routine Minute Orders (Cont’d) 2 e. Traffic Operations 3 Uvalde County - Construct an at-grade 4 railroad crossing on FM 1022 to be 100 5 percent funded by the Martin-Marietta 6 Materials Southwest, Ltd. (MO) 7 8 f. Eminent Domain Proceedings 9 Various Counties - Request for eminent 10 domain proceedings on noncontrolled and 11 controlled access highways (MO) 12 1314. Executive Session Pursuant to Government Code, 14 Chapter 551...... 159 15 16OPEN COMMENT PERIOD...... 159 17 18 ADJOURN ...... 1593 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 8 21 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. NICHOLS: We'll declare this meeting of the3Texas Transportation Commission open, in accordance with 4the Texas Open Meetings Law. Today's date is November 515. Time is 9:12. Let the record show that a public 6notice of this and all items on the agenda was filed with7the Office of the Secretary of State at 2:47, November 2.8 Do you have comments you'd like to make?9 MR. WILLIAMSON: No, sir.10 MR. NICHOLS: I apologize for the little bit of11a late start. We had a -- I think a little bit of a 12transportation problem getting Commissioner Williamson 13here. He did not get here by state transportation, 14state-supplied. He arrived by state-approved 15transportation.16 Before we get started, I'd also like to say -- 17remind everybody that today is Texas Recycle Day, 18November 15, to try to create awareness around the state 19of every opportunity to recycle goods. It's good for the20environment; it's good for the economy. The Texas 21Department of Transportation makes a great effort to 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 9 21recycle goods itself, and is one of the higher ranking 2agencies in the state with that regard.3 Before we get started, I'd also remind anyone 4who would like to address the commission to be sure to 5fill out a card that's on the counter out there. If it's6an item that's on the agenda, it will be a yellow card. 7If it's an item that's not on the agenda, it will be a 8blue card. Everyone will have an opportunity to speak. 9We'll have to limit those comments to three minutes, with10the exception of state elected officials. They can speak11as long as they would like.12 And we begin this morning with Item Number 1, a13public hearing regarding our highway project selection 14process. Call on Jim Randall.15 MR. RANDALL: Thank you, Commissioners. My 16name is Jim Randall, director of the Transportation 17Planning and Programming Division for the Texas 18Department of Transportation.19 The notice for this public hearing was filed 20with the Secretary of State on October 3, 2001, and 21published in the Texas Register on October 12, 2001. And3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 10 21I am pleased to make this presentation on behalf of the 2commission.3 This public hearing is conducted annually in 4accordance with the Texas Transportation Code, Sections 5201.602 and 222.034. Section 201.602 prescribes that the6Texas Transportation Commission is to hold annual 7hearings concerning its project selection process and the8relative importance of the various criteria on which the 9commission bases its project selection decisions. The 10commission will receive data, comments, views, and/or 11testimony from any person, organization, or group, and 12their representatives.13 Section 222.034 states that the federal aid for14transportation purposes administered by the commission 15shall be distributed to the various parts of the state 16for a funding cycle through the selection of highway 17projects in the state in a manner that is consistent with18federal formulas that determine the amount of federal aid19for transportation purposes received by the state. The 20distribution under this section of the Texas 21Transportation Code does not include deductions made for 22the state infrastructure banks or other federal funds 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 11 21reallocated by the federal government. The commission 2may vary from the distribution procedure provided it 3issues a ruling or minute order identifying the variance 4and providing particular justification for the variance.5 The commission will consider comments made at 6this hearing and written comments following this hearing 7until January 29, 2002. You can send written comments to8the address or email shown. A minute order describing 9the commission's decisions relating to the project 10selection process and the distribution of federal aid 11will be made at a subsequent public commission meeting. 12I will show these addresses again at the end of the 13presentation.14 You can refer to a public hearing document that15was made available to those who requested it and follow 16along during my presentation. If any of the folks in the17audience did not get a copy, they're available in the 18foyer.19 TxDOT is multimodal and relies on the following20modes of transportation to address the needs of the 21public, including: transit programs, aviation programs, 22highway programs, rail and water transportation. I'd 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 12 21like to point out here the programs will be developed for2rail and water transportation in the future, as TxDOT 3becomes more involved with these modes. But now I'd like4to further discuss transit, aviation, and highway 5programs, and I'll start with transit.6 TxDOT does not now own or operate transit 7services in Texas. It does, however, have a financial 8interest in the most public systems through the 9allocation of federal and state funds. Funds are 10allocated to urbanized areas: those areas of 50,000 or 11greater population not served by a transit authority; 12non-urbanized and rural areas; and for elderly and 13disabled transportation.14 For urbanized areas, these agencies apply 15directly to Federal Transit Administration for federal 16funds. State funds support capital, administrative, and 17operating expenses. Ninety percent of the state funds 18are distributed as directed by statute or the Texas -- or19by the Transportation Code, while 10 percent are 20distributed at the commission's discretion.21 For non-urbanized and rural areas, funds 22support capital, administrative, and operating expenses 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 13 21with federal and state funds flowing through TxDOT. 2Ninety percent of the federal and state funds are 3distributed by statute or the Transportation Code, while 410 percent are distributed at the commission's discretion.5 Elderly and disabled transportation funds 6support capital purchases, purchases of service and 7preventative maintenance. Federal funds flow through 8TxDOT and are allocated to the districts and metropolitan9planning organizations as directed by Title 43, Texas 10Administrative Code. Projects are selected by TxDOT in 11consultation or cooperation with the metropolitan 12planning organizations and local officials, and no state 13funds are provided.14 TxDOT is not involved in the federal grant 15process for metropolitan transit authorities, or MTAs, in16Austin, Corpus Christi, Dallas, El Paso, Fort Worth, 17Houston, and San Antonio. The authorities are not 18eligible to receive state funds and must rely on local 19sales tax to support their activities.20 TxDOT addresses the needs of general aviation 21through the Aviation Facilities Development Program. 22This program provides assistance to public entities for 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 14 21the purpose of establishing, constructing, 2reconstructing, enlarging, or repairing airports, 3airstrips, or navigation facilities.4 The planning process, which is documented in 5the Texas Airport Systems Plan, or TASP, identifies those6airports and projects which will best support the 7attainment of the airport system plan objectives. The 8primary objective of TASP is to develop a statewide 9system of airports that meets the goals of providing 10adequate access to the population and economic centers of11Texas.12 Adequate access expressed in terms of driving 13time between activity centers and appropriate airport 14facilities: Scheduled air carrier service should be 15within a 60-minute drive for virtually all Texas 16residents. Business jet aircraft access should be within17a 30-minute drive of significant population centers or 18mineral resource centers. Light piston-engine aircraft 19access should be within a 30-minute drive of agricultural20centers.21 MR. NICHOLS: I guess so.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 15 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm just curious, Jim. What 2is a mineral resource center?3 MR. RANDALL: I would assume that that would be4a -- one of our -- not knowing the airport -- the 5aviation program, I would assume that would be one of our6maybe refineries or something like that?7 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. So a processing plant, 8as opposed to --9 MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: -- the wells or the mines 11themselves.12 MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir.13 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. That makes sense.14 MR. RANDALL: I don't know -- if Dave Fulton 15was here, he might be able to enlighten us on that.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, that would make sense, 17if that's what a mineral resource center is. If it's 18where the minerals are actually mined, it would be kind 19of hard for us to achieve that.20 MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir.21 Criteria for project selection is based on the 22identified need related to the TASP objectives, the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 16 21amount of sponsored commitment, the system priorities 2that are identified in the TASP, and the availability of 3state and federal funds.4 Highway programs make up the majority of 5transportation programs TxDOT develops. These are the 6programs most familiar to the citizens of Texas. The 7projects in these programs are financed through federal 8aid and state funds. Both these revenue sources are 9sponsored, in large, by the motor fuel tax. The federal 10portion of the taxes collected in Texas go back to the 11state with restrictions on its spending.12 The Transportation Equity Act for the 21st 13Century, or TEA-21, is the current federal transportation14bill that authorizes the development and construction of 15federal aid projects. TEA-21 was passed by Congress and 16signed into law by the president on June 9, 1998. This 17bill spells out the current restrictions on federal aid 18funds.19 Several major programs are allocated to Texas 20based on the quantifiable data which compares Texas to 21other states and commonwealths within the United States. 22Those major federal aid highway funding categories 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 17 21allocated to individual states include: the Interstate 2Maintenance Program, the National Highway System Program,3Surface Transportation Program, Congestion Mitigation/Air4Quality Improvement Program, and the Highway Bridge 5Program.6 In the past, TxDOT created separate funding 7categories for each of these programs in order to assure 8that the construction spending was within the federal 9limitations. Setting up categories in this way has the 10benefit of assuring projects qualify for federal funds 11from the project's inception forward, but this process 12also has the following disadvantages: The same system 13was used to grade state-funded programs; therefore, 34 14categories were created in all, with some of the federal 15and state categories overlapping in their strategies to 16improve the transportation system. This also made the 17programs and the project selection process confusing.18 Recently, TxDOT staff requested the Texas 19Transportation Institute to perform a survey of TxDOT 20district planning and metropolitan planning organization 21personnel, as well as county judges. The survey focused 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 18 21on the perceived limitations in TxDOT's project selection2and funds distribution process and suggested improvements.3 The report results in specific recommendations 4that TxDOT will use to improve highway construction, 5project programming, and the general understanding and 6acceptance of TxDOT's procedures.7 In addition, Governor Rick Perry has requested 8the Texas Transportation Commission to simplify the 9project planning process and deliver highway improvements10in continuous and complete corridors, thereby increasing 11efficiency and decreasing inconvenience to the motorists.12 TxDOT is now proposing to change the project 13selection process based on these recommendations. All 14the pertinent changes are included in the public hearing 15document.16 The primary focus for these changes include: 17Simplifying the process by reducing the number of highway18funding categories from 34 to 12, using less confusing 19terminology regarding project authority levels, and 20providing better education and training on the new 21categories and their guidelines.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 19 21 The proposed changes will be incorporated into 2the 2003 Unified Transportation Program. In order to 3simplify the process, TxDOT now proposes to consolidate 4eight existing maintenance and rehabilitation categories 5into one, Category 1 - Preventative Maintenance and 6Rehabilitation.7 In addition, we propose to collapse 12 8statewide mobility categories into the following three: 9Category 2, Metropolitan Area Transportation Management 10Areas, or TMA, Corridor Projects; Category 3, Urban Area 11Non-TMA Corridor Projects; and Category 4, Statewide 12Connectivity Corridor Projects.13 Category 5, Congestion Mitigation and Air 14Quality Improvement, or CMAQ, will remain. This is true 15for other categories, including Category 7, Surface 16Transportation Program, or STP, Metropolitan Mobility and17Rehabilitation; Category 8, STP Safety; Category 9, STP 18Transportation Enhancements; and Category 12, Strategic 19Priority.20 TxDOT proposes to combine three bridge 21replacement and rehabilitation categories into one, 22Category 6, Structures Replacement and Rehabilitation.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 20 21 Category 10, Miscellaneous, will combine our 2existing Miscellaneous category with the State Park Roads3Program.4 And finally, TxDOT proposes to combine four 5mobility categories into Category 11, District 6Discretionary. These three major mobility categories 7will focus on providing continuous and complete corridor 8improvements throughout the state, although a corridor 9project selection process has not been formulated at this10time. The exact process or formula will be determined by11collaborative effort between TxDOT staff and our 12transportation partners, including the metropolitan 13planning organizations.14 We invite the public to comment on the 15selection criteria for these three categories through 16written correspondence regarding this hearing.17 The remaining portion of this presentation is 18intended to fulfill the requirements of Section 201.602 19and 222.034 of the Texas Transportation Code and describe20how the previously mentioned federal aid funds will be 21incorporated into the new categories.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 21 21 The Interstate Maintenance Program funds will 2be incorporated into the new Category 1, Preventive 3Maintenance and Rehabilitation Program. The Interstate 4Maintenance Program funds are allocated to the state 5based on the following weighted percentages: 33-1/3 6percent based on the lane miles of interstate system 7within the state, 33-1/3 percent based on the vehicle 8miles traveled on interstate system within the state, and933-1/3 percent based on the state's contributions to the 10Highway Trust Fund due to commercial vehicles.11 TxDOT proposes to allocate its Interstate 12Maintenance Program funds to the TxDOT districts based on13the following criteria: 45 percent based on the 14equivalent single-axle loads per interstate highway 15section -- this criteria is an indicator of the amount of16commercial truck traffic operating on the interstate 17highways within a district; 10 percent based on the 18interstate highway lane miles within a district; and 45 19percent based on the interstate lane miles within a 20district with substandard stress scores.21 The reasons for the variance from the federal 22funds -- federal formula are: individual TxDOT district 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 22 21or regional contributions to the Highway Trust Fund 2cannot be quantified; the federal formula does not 3account for pavement distress; the federal formula does 4not account for the volume of commercial truck traffic; 5and the federal formula does not account for the region's6need to build new interstate or add capacity to the 7existing system.8 National Highway System Program, or NHS funds, 9are allocated to Texas based on the following: 25 10percent based on lane miles of principal arterial routes 11within the state; 35 percent based on the vehicle miles 12traveled on these principal arterials; 30 percent based 13on the amount of diesel fuel used with the state; and 10 14percent on the quotient obtained by dividing the total 15lane miles on the principal arterial highways by the 16population.17 TxDOT proposes to use its NHS program funds to 18fund the following three specific categories: Category 192, Metropolitan Area (TMA) Corridor Projects; Category 3,20Urban Area Non-TMA Corridor Projects; and Category 4, 21Statewide Connectivity Corridor Projects.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 23 21 The reason for the variance from the federal 2NHS program formula are: individual TxDOT district or 3regional usage of commercial diesel fuel cannot be 4quantified; the federal formula does not account for 5pavement distress; the federal formula does not address 6TxDOT strategy of system development and preservation; 7the federal formula does not address specific TxDOT 8district or regional needs, such as congestion relief, 9improved operations, and pavement rehabilitation needs.10 The Surface Transportation Program, or STP, 11funds are allocated to Texas based on the following 12criteria: 25 percent based on the total miles of 13highways within the state that qualify for federal aid 14funds; 40 percent based on the vehicle miles traveled on 15highways within the state that qualify for federal aid 16funds; 35 percent based on tax payments from within the 17state into the Highway Trust Fund.18 TxDOT proposes to use its STP funding in the 19following four categories: Category 7, STP Metropolitan 20Mobility and Rehabilitation; Category 8, STP Safety; 21Category 9, STP Transportation Enhancements; Category 11,3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 24 21District Discretionary. Categories 7, 8, and 9 are 2required sub-allocations of the STP program funds.3 The reason for the variance from the federal 4formula are: TEA-21 requires TxDOT to suballocate the 5funds in a manner that differs from the federal 6distribution formula.7 And finally, the Highway Bridge Program. The 8Highway Bridge Program funds are allocated to Texas based9on the relative share of the total cost of deficient 10bridges as compared to the totals of other states.11 TxDOT proposes to use the Highway Bridge 12Program funds on projects in Category 6, Structures 13Replacement and Rehabilitation Program. The ranking and 14selection criteria for this category can be found on page1510 of the public hearing document.16 The reasons for the variance are: the federal 17allocation formula does not address the selection of the 18most functionally obsolete and structurally deficient 19bridges, and the federal formula does not assure required20minimum funding levels for off-system bridges are 21achieved.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 25 21 An important factor in the project selection 2process is the amount of funds available to build 3projects. In order for TxDOT's project development 4process to maintain its efficiency, projects must be 5selected several years in advance of their actual 6funding. TxDOT uses funding forecasts to predict future 7revenues from federal and state sources, and the programs8or selects projects corresponding to the anticipated 9funds. When the dollars become available, the program 10projects are then funded and constructed. In other 11words, programming is a commitment to construct the 12project when the forecasted funds become available.13 TxDOT's proposed programming levels for fiscal 14year 2006 can be found on page 13 of the public hearing 15document. These are programming levels for highway 16programs only. The values are subject to change as the 17funding forecasts are further refined.18 Once again, I would like to call your attention19to the public hearing document that was made available in20the foyer. This document contains the information 21regarding each proposed category including the TxDOT 22category name and number, the entity responsible for 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 26 21project selection, whether the program is treated as a 2bank-balance program or is authorized as individual 3projects, the allocation and ranking formula that is 4involved, and a brief summary of the type of work the 5program addresses.6 As promised, here are the addresses to send 7written comments. Again, the deadline is January 29, 82002. On behalf of the commission, I'd like to thank you9for listening to this important information, and this 10concludes my presentation.11 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, Jim.12 Do you have any comments or questions before we13get into the public comments?14 MR. WILLIAMSON: Only that I'm real proud at 15what they've done so far, and I'm real pleased with it.16 MR. NICHOLS: Couple of questions I had before 17we get into the public comments. The -- okay. After 18today's hearing, the public will have how many days to 19send in written comments?20 MR. RANDALL: They'll have 75 days. They'll 21have until January 29, 2002.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 27 21 MR. NICHOLS: And the formal approval of this 2after all that is --3 MR. RANDALL: Will be in February 2002 at that 4commission meeting.5 MR. NICHOLS: I'd also like to compliment your 6group and administration for the rework of this very 7complicated and important process.8 For the public, an awful lot of what was said 9today is very significant in the fact that we're trying 10to take a process that has evolved very logically but had11become very complicated for the public to understand, 12even professionals out in the field. We're taking 32 of 13our funding categories and bringing them down to 12.14 We're trying to put more authority, as well as 15responsibility, at the district level, closer to the 16projects, so that we can tackle entire projects, whether 17it be a metropolitan, urban, or rural connectivity 18project.19 So -- and rather than telling that district 20which segment you will do first, we're going to commit to21the entire project and then let that district determine 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 28 21which is the best way to put it together and which funds,2and so on, in their area.3 It's very significant. I think it's going to 4be a great -- but -- so, with that --5 MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Chair, do I understand 6that by January 2003 or thereabouts when we journey 7across the street to explain our program that our friends8in the House and Senate will hear us using common words 9like "plan," "develop," "construct"?10 MR. NICHOLS: (Laughs.)11 MR. RANDALL: Yes, sir. That -- once y'all 12approve what we've presented here at the public hearing, 13we'll draft the 2003 UTP, and in that draft that goes out14to public comment, that's when the folks will see our new15terminology to try to make it more understandable to 16everybody.17 MR. WILLIAMSON: I say that not -- I mean, 18laughingly, but seriously, Senator Duncan, that one of 19the complaints that Mr. Nichols and Mr. Johnson and I 20heard during this last session is, you know, You guys 21bring us papers, and it's written in a language we can't 22possibly understand. And so I think what we're going to 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 29 21bring you in January of '03 is something that we can all 2understand. Your project's either in the development 3stage or the planning stage or the construction stage, 4period.5 MR. NICHOLS: I think also -- you may not have 6touched on it, but I think we're going to be working to 7put all of this in a very simplified booklet -- 8hopefully, it will available sometime in the spring or 9early summer -- that will explain all this in terms and 10pictures and kind of do a statewide, regionalized 11approach, so that somebody can look into a region and see12what we're doing not only currently but with some of the 13plans in the future.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm particularly excited, 15Chairman, that this approach apparently offers a 16possibility of less disruption to the traveling public on17a corridor basis. I think that's wonderful.18 MR. NICHOLS: So we'll get into our public -- 19yes, sir. Okay. First card I've got is Senator Robert 20Duncan.21 Senator, we certainly do appreciate the work 22you've done in support of transportation over the years.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 30 21 SEN. DUNCAN: Well, thank you. We appreciate 2the work y'all have done to allocate transportation needs3across the state. We know it's a tough job.4 But, you know, I'm excited about today -- as I 5was perusing my Texas Register and I saw a notice of this6hearing -- you know, they need pictures in that book. 7 (General laughter.)8 SEN. DUNCAN: No. I really became excited at this 9concept, because I do believe that, Commissioner 10Williamson, you're exactly right: The complexity of 11highway funding, I think, even confuses legislators, 12believe it or not.13 And I do believe that the goal here is 14appropriate. I'm excited about it. I have been briefed 15on it, and I commend the commission for taking this bold 16step, and the staff for the hard work that they've done 17here.18 The new district that I have -- and I'm 19particularly interested. I just wanted everybody to note20that the proposed new district that I have has 18 percent21of the state's land mass in it. So that -- I think 18 22percent of the state's highway funds then probably ought 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 31 21to be going there. I'm not sure if that's how this new 2plan works, but --3 (General laughter.)4 MR. WILLIAMSON: So using the -- some of the 5urban complaints recently, we should allocate based on 6road miles.7 SEN. DUNCAN: Yes, well, or land mass. Land 8area would be a -- I think, with all seriousness, I do 9think that this plan would work well, will work well. 10There were a few questions that I had that I just raised,11rhetorically, or at least at this time, that perhaps 12should be addressed.13 First of all, I want to say that it looks like 14this plan, for projects like the East-West Freeway that 15you have been supporting and working on in Lubbock, I 16think that for that type of a project this plan works 17very well. I think it would give us the ability to tell 18our constituents in the Lubbock and in the West Texas 19region that that highway has -- it will be completed at 20some date in time and not -- we're not having to go 21piecemeal to construct that, which means efficiency not 22only in your highway-dollar allocation decisions that you3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 32 21make, but it also means efficiency in our communities, 2because of the decreased congestion.3 And when you speed those things up, it just -- 4highway construction costs a lot of dollars that we don't5see, economic development dollars or just retail dollars.6So we see speeding these projects up and being able to 7put them on some predictability with regard to completion8is a good idea.9 The concerns I do have is -- and I look -- 10referring back to the East-West Freeway issue -- Lubbock 11would be a region that would basically be kind of like a 12UIL realignment issue. When you have these -- when you 13transition from urban to metropolitan, Lubbock is right 14on that cusp. And the question I would have is is what 15if you have your funding -- if you gain your funding 16while you're in an urban category but then you transition17to a metropolitan category, do those funds transfer, do 18you maintain your status quo, or do you lose when you get19elevated up?20 MR. NICHOLS: We've got -- Jim Randall could 21probably answer that, but as I understand it, once a 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 33 21commitment is made on a project, then that project -- 2it's project-specific.3 SEN. DUNCAN: So the project's grandfathered 4in --5 MR. NICHOLS: Yes.6 SEN. DUNCAN: -- regardless of the transition.7 MR. NICHOLS: If there is a commitment on a 8project, it is grandfathered in.9 He's shaking his head yes.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes. Senator, traditionally 11on almost all the changes that we've made, and certainly 12all of the remarkable changes we've made in the last six 13months, we're attempting to hold to the standard that if 14we gave our word, we keep it.15 SEN. DUNCAN: Well, I assumed that was the 16case, and I just -- but I wanted to at least raise that --17 MR. NICHOLS: Point on the record?18 SEN. DUNCAN: Well -- exactly.19 (General laughter.)20 SEN. DUNCAN: And you've been there; you know. 21You know exactly what I'm talking about.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 34 21 The other thing is is that how is the money 2going to be allocated between the three categories. 3Population seems to be a driver. You know, with more 4corridors than money, it will tempting also to do things 5like perhaps fund a percentage of a corridor as opposed 6to -- like 70 percent or 80 percent as opposed to 100 7percent. And I would encourage you to do the best you 8can to fund 100 percent of these corridors so that we 9don't get back into the same mode of, Well, how -- when 10are we going to get the rest of it done.11 The whole advantage of this, it seems like to 12me, is to put a beginning and an end to a project, which 13I think all of us would like to see, and would make 14these -- make our constituents, I think, feel more 15confident in what we're doing. So I encourage that, as 16well.17 But I really want to put -- I want to go on 18record as supporting this concept wholeheartedly. We 19really believe in what you're doing here, and I think it 20will be best not only for rural Texas but all Texas. So 21thank you for your work. And if you have any questions 22of me, I'll be happy to address them.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 35 21 MR. NICHOLS: On your question or concern about2how is the funding going to change, over the next -- 3first year of this change, going from 34 categories to 412, they are going to take the same allocation formulas 5and just squeeze them into those so that each area is 6basically getting pretty much the same as it was.7 SEN. DUNCAN: Same as it is.8 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. And then as we go into the 9second year using this, we're going to develop -- and he 10covered it -- a few of those categories, we're going to 11try to develop a means in which everybody can participate12on how we arrive at some of those. So it's going to be a13one-year study on that, hoping [phonetic] -- input and so14on.15 SEN. DUNCAN: So that will be something --16 MR. WILLIAMSON: We recognize, Senator, that 17the worst thing that can happen to us, in effect, the 18largest central state agency distributing state tax 19dollars, is to pit Houston against Lubbock and Dallas 20against Rio Grande City. We know that's not good for us;21it's not good for the state.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 36 21 In fact, we work very hard every day to try to 2say to people who complain, This is one state, one 3people, sometimes my district gets more, sometimes it 4gets less, but we need to focus on the state's needs and 5not divide ourselves. So we hear clearly what you're 6saying. We're not going to let that happen.7 SEN. DUNCAN: All right.8 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you very much.9 SEN. DUNCAN: Thank you. I appreciate it.10 MR. NICHOLS: Next is Representative John 11Shields.12 MR. RAINES: I'm not Rep. John Shields, as you 13can tell. I'm one of his staffers. My name is Stephen 14Raines. And actually, and I'm going to submit comments 15on his behalf, if that's all right with you.16 MR. NICHOLS: That's fine.17 MR. RAINES: I'm just going to read them into 18the record, and then we'll submit the written ones later,19if that's all right.20 MR. NICHOLS: That's fine.21 MR. RAINES: Thanks.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 37 21 First of all, thank you for the opportunity to 2provide comments on the Transportation Institute's final 3report on TxDOT's project selection funds distribution 4process.5 First of all, I want to thank you for all your 6help in providing the state discretionary funding for San7Antonio and Bexar County area. Your most recent 8distribution of $144 million in strategic priority 9funding was helpful in a number of projects, and your 10assistance with Loop 410 and the Kelly Parkway is also 11appreciated.12 In 2000, the San Antonio District had almost 131.5 million vehicles driving 35 million miles per day, 14representing 12 percent of the state's total vehicle 15miles traveled daily. However, we also have 10,366 on-16system lane miles or 18 percent of the state's total lane17mileage. That mileage is mostly attributable to the 18transportable planning and successful construction 19efforts of former TxDOT district engineers.20 That extra mileage may also help explain why 21San Antonio was ranked 22nd best in mobility of the 70 22major cities across the United States. Even so, 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 38 21according to some of the San Antonio Metropolitan 2Planning Organization information we've received, San 3Antonions suffer from 26 million hours of delay annually 4and lose 38 million gallons of fuel are wasted idling in 5congestion. And our annual congestion costs are 6estimated at about $395 million, or $435 per driver.7 To make matters worse, our metropolitan 8transportation plan projects that by 2025, San Antonio's 9population will increase 34 percent, from 1.5 to 2 10million. Vehicle miles traveled daily will increase by 1160 percent, from 35 million to 56 million miles per day. 12Traffic congestion levels will increase by 60 percent in 13spite of $9.6 billion in transportation investment, which14would include 5.6 billion for roadways and $4 billion for15transit.16 San Antonio fully supports the recommendations 17that you have today and the idea to overhaul the project 18selection funds distribution process. The categories of 19the plan, develop, and construct that you were talking 20about earlier will not significantly be different from 21the long-range,Priority 2 and Priority 1 plan and be more3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 39 21plainspoken in their functions for citizens and leaders, 2as Commissioner Williamson said earlier.3 I want to applaud the idea of collapsing the 344separate funding categories into 12 and giving the local 5TxDOT districts extra flexibility to pursue mobility 6projects in accordance with the desires of the local 7citizens. I especially like the idea of abandoning a 8cost-effectiveness index that has prevented San Antonio 9from bringing corridors and projects critical to 10maintaining area levels of mobility forward from our 11long-range plan category to Priority 2.12 Competition at the state level through the CEI 13process has seriously impeded regional efforts to try and14keep pace with growing congestion. The transportation 15plan suggested by TTI to involve MPOs and the development16of a new corridor selection process for the 2004 Unified 17Transportation Plan also will improve the process.18 Please recognize that San Antonio's Priority 2 19corridors and projects have been handicapped and that 20they were originally selected through the cost-21effectiveness index process. This resulted in funding 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 40 21only small pieces of various critical corridors 2throughout the San Antonio area.3 At expected of levels of funding, it will take 4San Antonio to at least 2013 to complete current Priority52 projects. Accordingly, some catch-up mechanism should 6be considered for assisting these projects and the entire7corridor to sooner completion.8 There also needs to be a fair share on return 9of investment, which you talked about earlier, 10Commissioner. Metropolitan areas should be guaranteed a 11minimum return --12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Not a term I like to hear.13 MR. RAINES: Okay. I'll keep that in mind.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: I made it pretty plain that 15fair share can't be defined.16 MR. RAINES: Absolutely. That's why we just 17want to make sure we understand we'd like a fair share 18and it's your idea to determine that.19 (General laughter.)20 MR. RAINES: We just like to make 21recommendations.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 41 21 According to the San Antonio Metropolitan 2Planning Organization estimates, the metropolitan area 3slice of the TxDOT Priority 1 funding has dwindled from 4'98 to 2001 from 92 percent to 81 percent.5 MR. WILLIAMSON: In fact, let me just say right6now, because John's a friend of mine, and I know you'll 7go back and report to him, and I hope he's a state 8senator someday, as apparently he wishes to be.9 Here's the dilemma. Your testimony, first of 10all, you offer facts and figures, and I guess you're 11going to provide us a source for that at some point so 12we'll know -- unlike recent articles in the Houston 13paper, we'll know what your source is.14 MR. RAINES: The source for the information in 15these comments we got from the metropolitan planning 16organization.17 MR. WILLIAMSON: Ah.18 MR. RAINES: And their formulas for determining19that, I think, they can probably provide to you, and 20someone will see to that --21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh. So you're reading into 22the record as factual actually what someone else has 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 42 21provided to you, but you don't know what the source of 2that is --3 MR. RAINES: Yes, sir.4 MR. WILLIAMSON: -- other than -- you know, the5newspapers do that a lot now. The problem with defining 6fair share is, you've just told us that you liked 7changing it to a corridor approach because the bits and 8pieces, the piecemeal process, drags things out. And yet9the reason we find ourselves in the piecemeal bind is 10because every year, apparently, all of the constituent 11groups of the state want their fair share.12 MR. RAINES: Absolutely.13 MR. WILLIAMSON: So we have this dilemma. 14You've got Houston, San Antonio -- although not Dallas 15anymore, interestingly enough -- coming to the commission16and raising Cain about fair share.17 MR. RAINES: Sure.18 MR. WILLIAMSON: So we do things piecemeal so 19it is kind of fair share, and then people start raising 20Cain about piecemeal and never get anything finished.21 MR. RAINES: You're exactly right.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 43 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: So you might pass along to 2John, we're trying to get to a point where it's fair 3share for the state and not for one piece of the state.4 MR. RAINES: And I think that's what the 5comments he was wanting to make are. I think you've made6a very good improvement in that process. We just want to7make sure that our fair share is definitely our biggest 8interest here.9 MR. WILLIAMSON: I think I'm going to win.10 (General laughter.)11 MR. WILLIAMSON: Fair share. Hm.12 MR. RAINES: The only other comments I had was 13with the passage of Proposition 15, hope there'll be more14funding available in years ahead. And thank you again 15for the opportunity to provide comments. If you want any16future comments or information on these, please contact 17him at the office or myself. I can help you.18 MR. NICHOLS: All right. Thank you very much.19 MR. RAINES: Thank you.20 MR. NICHOLS: I appreciate it.21 Next card up is Representative Gary Walker. I 22call him Chairman Walker.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 44 21 Now, as I understand it, you did not want to 2speak, but you wanted to be shown as -- on record as in 3favor of this. Thank you very much. And, sir, we really4do appreciate the help you've given us, particularly last5session. I know a couple times they got in a pretty good6pinch, you came in and raised up the flag, you helped, 7and I really appreciate that.8 Individuals, as a reminder, as I go through 9these names and you come to the podium, state your name 10officially for the record to the mike. And also, there's11a three-minute timer that's green. When there's one 12minute left, it turns yellow, and when the three minutes 13is up it turns red. Try to be fair to everybody. If we 14ask questions, then we extend the time on that.15 Kevin Evans, from Lubbock.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Hey, Kevin.17 MR. EVANS: How are you today? Thank you for 18allowing me to speak. My name is Kevin Evans, president 19of the Ports-to-Plains Trade Corridor Coalition, 20representing them here today on this matter. Bring you 21greetings and regrets from our chairman, Randy 22Neugebauer. He is not able to be here. He's trying to 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 45 21make a living, and I keep chastising him as my volunteer 2chairman for trying to make a living, but he keeps 3telling me he doesn't care and that that's what they 4hired me for. So I'm happy about that.5 I'd simply like to say, Ditto. As usual, 6Senator Duncan makes my job extremely easy. We certainly7would echo everything that he has said.8 Want to congratulate the commission, the staff,9for doing an excellent job in taking what the senator 10described as a very bold step, and it is, in the right 11direction. Certainly we're excited about the continuous 12and complete corridors aspect, being a trade corridor 13that goes from Laredo to Denver.14 Just finished up another summit conference in 15Lubbock. It very successful, very well attended. Know 16that many of you couldn't be here, but would like to tell17you that your staff that participated in that did an 18absolutely wonderful job, very informative. And 19hopefully you'll make the next one.20 Simply say thank you for making this effort. 21We will be submitting written comments, and we're very 22excited about the change in this process.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 46 21 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you very much.2 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.3 MR. NICHOLS: Larry Hertel, Lubbock.4 MR. HERTEL: Yes. I'm Larry Hertel, city 5engineer with the City of Lubbock.6 In a joint meeting of the Transportation Policy7and Advisory Committees of the Lubbock MPO, there was a 8unanimous vote to support the proposed changes to TxDOT's9project selection process. These changes to simplify the10process and deliver highway improvements in a continuous 11and complete corridors are concepts that we certainly 12favor and support, and I'm just here to indicate the 13support of the Lubbock MPO and the City of Lubbock.14 Thank you very much.15 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, thank you.17 MR. NICHOLS: Bob Anderson, county 18commissioner, Hood County.19 MR. WILLIAMSON: My part of the world.20 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you for allowing me to 21speak to you this morning.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 47 21 I'm from Hood County. County seat is Granbury,2Texas, that lies just southwest of the Fort Worth-Dallas 3area. We have experienced a 40 percent growth in our 4population over this last decade, and it doesn't appear 5that it's slowing.6 And as I sat and listened to the larger 7metropolitan areas and their growth and their challenges 8that they have, I just want to hold up the smaller areas 9that lie contingent with the Tarrant counties and the 10Dallas counties, that we are under great stress under a 11situation that is causing us a lot of problems.12 We're experiencing 38,000 cars a day, plus -- 13at a business bypass split in Hood County. The bypass --14it was built in the mid-'70s -- is greatly congested.15 Hood County recently developed a master 16transportation plan, and I appreciate the changes that 17have been made in the process. I think it'll be 18beneficial to us to complete -- help us complete this 19master transportation plan with the assistance of the 20state.21 So I am in favor of this and hope to be coming 22before you very soon for proposals and assistance to 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 48 21develop this master transportation plan for our 2community. Thank you.3 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, Commissioner.4 Tommy Eden, Austin.5 MR. EDEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and 6commission members. My name is Tommy Eden. I am 7concerned about the need -- if you're dealing with 8federal programs, the need for bicycle and pedestrian 9infrastructure whenever you do new construction. And I 10want to provide you with copies of the Federal Highway 11Administration's Design Guidance.12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Did you ride your bicycle 13today?14 MR. EDEN: Yes, sir.15 I would like to point out to you on page 4, at 16the bottom of page 4, the policy statement, which 17generally states that bicycle and pedestrian facilities 18will be included in any new construction and 19reconstruction projects except where either bicyclists 20and pedestrians are prohibited by law or where the cost 21of establishing these facilities would be excessively 22disproportionate to the need or probable use or where 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 49 21sparsity of population or other factors indicate an 2absence of need.3 TxDOT's policy does not conform with this 4policy. According to TxDOT, the department provides for 5sidewalk construction on designated state highway system 6when replacing an existing sidewalk where highway 7construction severs an existing sidewalk system making 8connections within a highway right of way to restore 9sidewalk system continuity or where pedestrian traffic is10causing or is expected to cause a safety conflict.11 I would ask that any policies that you make 12conform with the Federal Highway Administration's 13requirements. Thank you.14 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, sir. And I'm not 15going to try to respond to your concern at this moment, 16because I'm not that aware of this particular issue, but 17I am going to request to our executive director, Mike 18Behrens, that he have someone in the department check 19into this and respond officially back to you. So we have20your address? This is your -- okay. This is your proper21mailing address. And we will do that.22 MR. EDEN: Thank you.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 50 21 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.2 I'm showing -- now, I had a card for Sam 3Dawson, but as I understand it, you did not want to 4speak, but is that correct? Okay.5 Now, I have no other cards from the public or 6this audience with regards to the public hearing. Is 7there anyone in here who wanted to speak who did not fill8out a card? Please raise your hand.9 (No response.)10 MR. NICHOLS: If not, do you have any 11additional comments or closing?12 MR. WILLIAMSON: No, sir.13 MR. NICHOLS: Then I declare the public hearing14closed. And we're going to take a short break to allow 15our next delegation to come in. So we're going to take 16about a three-minute break, three-minute recess.17 (Off the record.)18 MR. NICHOLS: We are reconvened. We very much 19appreciate the long distance you all have traveled to be 20here today. And I'm somewhat familiar with Big Spring. 21I used to buy a lot of polystyrene from up there.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 51 21 MR. CROOKER: Oh, that's great. We were 2blessed with a five-inch rain yesterday, I understand. 3It's our first rain in so long I can't remember when it 4happened. It doubled our rainfall, I think.5 MR. NICHOLS: You're Bill Crooker?6 MR. CROOKER: Crooker. Yes, sir.7 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Go ahead and start, sir.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 52 21 BIG SPRING CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 2 3(Bill Crooker, Senator Robert Duncan, Kevin Evans, Mayor 4Russ McEwen) 56 MR. CROOKER: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm7Bill Crooker, county commissioner of Howard County. Our 8purpose this morning is to present to you the need for a 9truck reliever route for US 87, the main north-south 10highway through Big Spring.11 Big Spring is located at the crossroads of US 1287 North-South and Interstate 20 East-West. 2000 census 13report shows 33,627 people in the county with 25,233 of 14these living in the city. This is a small increase over 151990.16 Our first speaker this morning is our state 17senator, Robert Duncan.18 SEN. DUNCAN: Thank you. It's a pleasure, once19again, to be -- this is a dual appearance day for me, but20I always enjoy being here again.21 Big Spring is kind of right in the heart of the22current Senate District 28, and something happened along 23the way in redistricting and it got -- I don't know what 24happened, but it got removed. We're trying to get it 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 53 21back. But I think this crossroads issue is very 2important for us to look at, especially when we're 3talking about east-west corridors and north-south 4corridors.5 One of the primary -- and I think -- I always 6try to pick -- on transportation projects, I think y'all 7have noticed, I've tried to pick a few. I don't try to 8go for the whole bunch of them and be strong advocate 9for. This is one that I am a strong advocate for, 10because if you've been to Big Spring, if you're going 11north-south and you see -- if you go through the 12community there, you'll see that a truck has to go 13through -- if it's going north-south, going from Lubbock 14to San Angelo under the current configuration, or 15Amarillo, down that highway, which is a major corridor, 16and will be more of a major corridor with Port-to-Plains,17it'll have to go through 52 intersections, eight signal 18lights, and two school crossings in order to get through 19the city of Big Spring.20 That obviously is a safety issue that we have. 21It's also an environmental issue. It's also, as well, an22efficiency issue for trucks that will be going that way. 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 54 21We know that this is one of the key, and probably one of 2the first projects, that ought to occur on the Port-to-3Plains bypass, when we look at these bypasses.4 The committee -- or the community is 100 5percent committed to this. We don't even have to call it6a reliever route. We can call it a bypass. The 7community has committed significant local funds to obtain8right of way, and this is a high -- this is the highest 9priority in transportation in Howard County and Big 10Spring. And they have been strong supporters and 11participants in the Port-to-Plains concept that you 12recently approved with regard to the designation of that 13corridor.14 So I'm here to ask that you -- specifically, I 15believe, the prayer should read -- select that this 16corridor or that this route be selected for phase 1 of 17the trunk system when the corridor -- when the commission18prioritizes your Priority 2 corridors. So we would 19appreciate your consideration.20 If there is any questions I can answer for you,21I'll be happy to do so at this time.22 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 55 21 SEN. DUNCAN: Thank you very much.2 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, Senator.3 MR. CROOKER: Thank you, Senator.4 State Representative David Counts could not be 5with us today. He has written a letter to each 6commissioner in support of the project, and I have given 7these letters to Helen.8 Our speakers this morning are myself, Bill 9Crooker, county commissioner of Howard County; Kevin 10Evans, president of Ports-to-Plains Trade Corridor; and 11Russ McEwen, our mayor.12 The project began with a Lubbock to Interstate 1310 Amarillo North Route Study Phase 2, by HDR 14Engineering, published in September of 1997. This study 15presented ten improvements possible for the Big Spring 16area. One of the ten, a truck reliever route to the west17of Big Spring, received 123 votes from 300 people 18attending this public meeting in May of 1997.19 A task group was formed in December 1999 to 20study and determine the most suitable route. The members21were composed of city and county officials, chamber of 22commerce members, citizens, and representatives of 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 56 21TxDOT's Abilene District. After two public meetings in 2April 2001, a feasibility report outlining the proposed 3project was written and distributed to interested parties4in May of 2001.5 The proposed project includes phased 6construction. Phase 1 would be a four-lane divided 7highway with three intersections. There would be no 8frontage roads now or planned in the future. This would 9be in compliance with TxDOT's new frontage road policy.10 Phase 1, the south section which you see on the11screen, the reliever route is the pink line starting at 12US 87 on the south side of Big Spring, proceeding 13westerly, then turning north, going past the 14McMahon/Wrinkle Airpark, where it meets Interstate 20 on 15the west side of Big Spring. This is approximately six 16miles.17 The blue line shown is the existing Interstate 1820 and US 87 North. Conceivably, a truck can enter the 19reliever route at US 87 South, take the new highway to 20Interstate 20, then take Interstate 20 East to US 87, and21then continue on to the north. Thereby, using two 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 57 21existing roads, Interstate 20 and US 87 North, the truck 2can bypass Big Spring.3 Phase 2, the north section, would follow the 4blue line beginning at Interstate 20, going in a north, 5then a east direction, connecting West 87 north of Big 6Spring. This would approximately be seven miles.7 Howard County, by resolution, is willing to pay8for the right of way and utility adjustments in Phase 1, 9estimated at $300,000. I have a copy of the resolution, 10and it has been given to Helen.11 Incidentally, in our last project of widening 12US 87 back about 12 years ago, we committed to TxDOT 13about $750,000, and we're glad to do this. We understand14the reasoning.15 The 1999 ADT for US 87 through the city was 16between 11- and 13,000 vehicles per day. There are four 17factors, however, that will significantly impact the 18future traffic. They are US 87 is a high-priority 19corridor in the National Highway System; US 87 is a 20Priority 1 Texas Trunk System route; US 87 is designated 21as part of the Ports-to-Plains Trade Corridor by TxDOT; 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 58 21and US 87 is the primary route for the Texas Agricultural2Corridor.3 Route selection rationale is the east route, 4Farm Road 700 to Interstate 20, has become a main artery 5for local traffic, and many businesses have been located 6along this route, including a Wal-Mart Supercenter and a 7shopping mall. Current speed limit is 45 to 50 miles per8hour. Overpasses would need to be constructed at seven 9intersections in order to move through traffic at 60 10miles an hour.11 However, the west route has the lower overall 12cost, has even terrain, passes within one-half mile of 13the McMahon/Wrinkle Airpark, and would need no overpasses.14 Our recommendations include the following: 15that TxDOT construct a truck reliever route west of Big 16Spring. We are seeking project-specific funding, and 17funding level will be $15 million.18 The advantages are there's a strong public 19support for this project, as evidenced by the May 1997, 20September 2000, April 12 and April 24, 2001, public 21meetings attended by over 300 persons.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 59 21 The preferred route has a minimal amount of 2right of way to obtain, while using the maximum amount of3existing roadway. It frees the main north-south corridor4through the community to local traffic. It will reduce 5traffic accidents and provide a hazardous cargo route 6around the city, which I think is very important.7 A reliever route west of Big Spring would 8encourage industrial development at our McMahon/Wrinkle 9Airpark, help fulfill Ports-to-Plains and Texas Trunk 10System objectives, has the potential of giving some 11relief to the heavy traffic on Interstate 35 corridor.12 And now we will hear from Kevin Evans, 13president of Ports-to-Plains Corridor.14 MR. EVANS: Thank you, Bill.15 Gentlemen, on the map that you have there 16before you, you see a lot of green stars. Those 17represent reliever routes that are working at some stage 18or another in those communities along the route. And as 19Randy Neugebauer pointed out yesterday in a meeting I was20at, some of those are in the matchbook stage, where 21they're still drawing pictures on the back of a 22matchbook, talking about it in the coffee shop. Some of 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 60 21them are in construction. Some of them in line to be 2funded. And then at the heart of our route in Texas, you3have Big Spring. As you can see, they're fairly far 4along on their planning process.5 We feel like we have a transportation crisis 6here in Texas. Proposition 15 -- and by the way, 7congratulation on all of your work on that -- is going to8go a long way to help that and begin the process, we 9hope. But still, you can see the statistics there I get 10from Bill Webb, president of TMTA here in Texas: 31 11million by 2025; 50 percent increase in the overall 12state; 50 percent of that will be in the DFW/Houston 13areas. They're going to need more alternative routes, 14more relief of some type. We hope to be that relief.15 Truck crossings up, commercial mileage up -- 16all those things you're aware of. Trade traffic 17increasing. I like to use this slide because I got the 18information from Ed Wueste here at TxDOT, going from, I 19believe, around '99-2000 of $200 billion a year trade 20with Mexico to 800 billion by the year 2010 was the 21estimate we had at that time; current annual rate of 22increase about 15 percent.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 61 21 There's going to be an increase in trade 2traffic in Texas. We don't -- we know we're not going to3get the lion's share of that increase, but obviously, we 4are going to benefit and be responsible for a big part of5that up the Ports-to-Plains Corridor.6 TEA-21, Ports-to-Plains, and Big Spring share 7some common goals. Promoting safety for the route is a 8very obvious need. If you've ever been down Gregg 9Street, it is an amazingly long journey, and it is, even 10with the great improvements that have been made in recent11past, still very dangerous and very tedious for trade 12traffic.13 We will improve access along the route. The 14interconnection with I-20 will be greatly improved. 15Construction of the reliever routes utilize less 16congested border crossings. We're promoting that very 17heavily in Acuña-Del Rio and Piedras Negras-Eagle Pass --18alternative routes, economic development, and balanced 19growth.20 Big Spring is at the heart of the Ports-to-21Plains route in Texas, and they need a reliever route 22sooner than later. And you'll notice -- you may not have3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 62 21known that Michael Behrens was a doctor, but there he is 2performing a bypass operation for Big Spring.3 Thank you.4 Yes, sir.5 MR. NICHOLS: Go ahead.6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Let me wait for the 7appropriate time to raise this question.8 MR. EVANS: I didn't say "fair share."9 MR. WILLIAMSON: I know. And we appreciate 10that.11 (General laughter.)12 MR. WILLIAMSON: And I know that you never made13that argument. Even in Ports-to-Plains you never made 14that argument. You made the argument that it was in the 15state's best interest.16 MR. EVANS: Yes, sir.17 MR. WILLIAMSON: I personally appreciate that. 18I want to know if it's possible to bring the slide back 19up that had all the green stars on it. Can that be done?20 MR. EVANS: May take him a second to run 21through them.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 63 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: And I want to ask you, as a 2person who's identified -- among many, but you're 3prominently identified with the Ports-to-Plains concept --4has anyone involved in Ports-to-Plains started to discuss5the possibility of a Regional Mobility Authority to 6expedite or to entrepreneurially plan to bring Ports-to-7Plains to fruition much faster than we all realize is 8possible in the current funding scenario?9 MR. EVANS: The board has not discussed it 10openly. Randy Neugebauer and I and, of course, Tommy 11Gonzalez, my predecessor, and one other board member 12locally have had that discussion just recently.13 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, the reason I ask the 14question is one of the persons involved in it -- there's 15no reason to bring his name into it -- opined to me 16recently that if you took the tax base from Stratford to 17Del Rio -- not down to Laredo yet, but just from 18Stratford to Del Rio -- if you looked at the tax base of 19those counties and communities that would benefit 20directly from Ports-to-Plains, you could make a 21reasonable argument that a combination local government-22state government-private sector partnership might could 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 64 21well pull off a transportation corridor that included 2concrete and rail that would result in tremendous 3economic benefits to those tax bases to the extent that 4those tax bases could afford to make some financial 5commitments to the whole project.6 And I just want to encourage you to explore 7that. I mean, I think there's -- if Lubbock, Senator 8Duncan would argue that a completed Ports-to-Plains would9provide X amount of economic growth; if Del Rio could 10argue that a completed Ports-to-Plains, at least at their11border crossing, would result in X amount of 12international trade; if Stratford could argue that Ports-13to-Plains would result in finished cotton crops or milo 14crops or whatever being processed and sent to market 15sooner, and then the argument is we will all benefit 16economically if we will invest, is it possible to figure 17out a local government-state government-private sector 18partnership that can make this thing happen a lot faster?19 And I just would encourage you to do that.20 MR. EVANS: We would love to explore it, and I 21will be visiting with you more about it in the future and22get some more of your ideas.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 65 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Proposition 15 gives us at the2commission tools to do things that we haven't had in the 3past. And we are open for business, and we're thinking 4outside the box.5 MR. EVANS: Appreciate it very much.6 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, Kevin.7 MR. EVANS: Thank you. And now I introduce 8Mayor Russ McEwen.9 MR. NICHOLS: Welcome, Mayor.10 MAYOR McEWEN: Thank you, sir. Appreciate the 11chance to be here. And, Commissioner Williamson, it's an12intriguing idea that you have, one that I have not heard 13about up till now, but certainly does have great merit as14I think about what we're trying to do in Big Spring, 15obviously, and then looking at what we want to do up and 16down the corridor. I think --17 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, Mayor, and I have to 18give credit where credit's due.19 MAYOR McEWEN: Yes, sir.20 MR. WILLIAMSON: The man that appointed me to 21this position told me a year ago he had a vision for 22transportation in this state, and he intends his vision 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 66 21to be brought to fruition. And Proposition 15 is a large2part of the governor's plan to rebuild the infrastructure3of the state. And he was deadly serious when he told me 4that, and he's deadly serious now. He wants to get Texas5moving.6 MAYOR McEWEN: Well, obviously, you are too, 7and I commend you for that, sir.8 We do have safety issues in Big Spring that are9significant, as Senator Duncan alluded to earlier, as to 10the number of places that US 87 has crossings in our 11community. US 87 uses an existing city street that 12passes through the main business district in Big Spring.13 And if you're familiar with Big Spring at all, 14you know that there are significant grade changes on this15street that create hazardous intersections at FM 700, 1610th Street, 4th Street, and Sgt. Paredez Street. At 17each of these intersections, trucks must contend with 18stoplights after traveling significant distances on 19fairly severe down slopes.20 Approximately 1,750 trucks pass through Big 21Spring via US 87 on a daily basis. These statistics are 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 67 21provided by TxDOT, and they've indicated an approximate 52percent increase in truck traffic on an annual basis.3 It is our belief that there will be even a 4greater increase when US 277 between Del Rio and Sonora 5is finished and the extensive rebuild of US 87 at Tahoka 6is completed.7 From an economic standpoint, this reliever 8route will come within a half mile of McMahon/Wrinkle 9Airpark with an exit running directly into the west side 10of this facility. With the Ports-to-Plains Corridor 11becoming a major trade route, the accessibility of an 12airpark, combined with the fact that Interstate 20 runs 13directly north of McMahon/Wrinkle Airpark, gives Big 14Spring two major opportunities for economic growth.15 NAFTA will bring goods up this corridor that 16will need to be shipped north, east, and west. This 17suits Big Spring's location perfectly. We are in an 18ideal position to become a major warehousing and 19distribution location, because we will be at the 20crossroads of IH-20 and Ports-to-Plains.21 Secondly, intermodal transportation makes 22abundant sense at our airpark. Using proposed and 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 68 21existing facilities -- these including a modern airpark 2with a brand-new terminal, a railhead that could be 3expanded, and the proposed truck reliever route -- it 4will give us an opportunity for intermodal transportation5that has become very important in today's economy.6 I want to thank you for the opportunity to 7address you today and would entertain any questions you 8might have.9 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, Mayor. Is that the 10end of the presentation?11 MAYOR McEWEN: No, sir.12 MR. NICHOLS: Okay.13 MAYOR McEWEN: Mr. Crooker has a short summary.14 MR. NICHOLS: Any questions at this point? 15I'll reserve my questions to the end. Thank you.16 MAYOR McEWEN: Thank you, sir.17 MR. CROOKER: Thank you, Mayor.18 At this time, I would like very much to have 19the Big Springers and -- the contingent from Big Spring 20and Ports-to-Plains persons present, please, stand up. 21Thank you.22 MR. NICHOLS: Did y'all drive in or fly in?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 69 21 MR. CROOKER: I think they did both. I think 2the mayor said he came by boat.3 MR. NICHOLS: By boat?4 (General laughter.)5 MR. CROOKER: At this time, I would like to 6extend my thanks and compliments to Bill Hale, Abilene 7District Engineer, and his staff, in particular Art 8Barrow, our Big Spring area engineer. They've been most 9helpful and supportive in this project. In this summary,10I'd like to say my sincere thanks to each commissioner 11for your time and interest.12 In closing, I would like to say this reliever 13route is a safety issue, an economic issue, and a trade 14issue. We urge you to do everything possible to bring 15this project to fruition in a realistic time frame. And 16I thank you very much.17 And now we would like to entertain any 18questions you might have.19 MR. NICHOLS: Did you have any questions? I 20had a few. The original estimate on this was about -- it21may be that Bill Hale, which we're very proud of, by the 22way, as a district engineer -- was about $49 million. 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 70 21Now, that's for an entire four-lane divided for that 2entire --3 MR. CROOKER: Correct.4 MR. HALE: [inaudible]5 MR. NICHOLS: Into the mike. We can't hear 6you. I can hear you, but --7 MR. HALE: Okay. The department -- that's for 8the entire phase or entire project from north to south of9Big Spring.10 MR. NICHOLS: On the west side.11 MR. HALE: Right. And that first phase going 12up to 20, then over to 87, and on up out of Big Spring 13is --14 MR. NICHOLS: It was proposed to be -- in that 15first phase, to be a four-lane divided?16 MR. HALE: Yes.17 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. As opposed to if we 18acquired enough right of way for a four-lane divided and 19got a two-lane in there to start with, that would at 20least begin the process so we can maybe take this thing 21in smaller -- okay. That's what I was trying to 22understand.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 71 21 MR. HALE: That's correct.2 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Now, that -- as I 3understand it, this route is on Phase 1 Corridor, Texas 4Trunk System?5 MR. HALE: Yes, it is. We're asking for it to 6be on Phase 1 Corridor System.7 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: [inaudible]8 MR. HALE: Okay. It is.9 MR. NICHOLS: It's on the Texas Trunk System?10 MR. HALE: Yes, it is.11 MR. NICHOLS: Jim? Where's Jim? Is it on the 12Phase 1 Corridors of the Texas Trunk System?13 MR. HALE: Yes.14 MR. NICHOLS: I think it is.15 MR. HALE: Yes, it is.16 MR. NICHOLS: I'm pretty sure it is. We have --17and I think this is important for y'all to kind of 18recognize this. When we established the Phase 1 19Corridors of the Texas Trunk System, it was to try to 20take logical alignments with geographical distribution 21around the state that would work for the entire state, 22and then line up some of these gaps and fill them in.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 72 21 And when we established that several years ago,2the idea was to have the whole thing, all those gaps 3closed in inside of ten years. And I think there's about4seven years left of hammering those gaps. I drive around5through there; I'm seeing some of them get closed now.6 Now, we also recognized at that point that we 7did not address the reliever route issue on those 8corridors, that we knew that as we got into the Phase 2, 9for lack of a better word, that we needed to address 10those. We knew that reliever routes, the arguments of, 11you know, what happens to our retail, and all that kinds 12of stuff, would be more lengthy, that it would be a 13little more expensive. We could get the long stretches 14quicker, more dramatic, and start moving vehicles.15 But Phase 2 hearings and what that money is to 16be spent for is approximately scheduled to be next 17summer, probably at the end of the summer, somewhere in 18there. I'm not sure. And we had thought -- and we 19almost did it last time -- and I'm pretty sure that one 20of the big issues will be to take that funding source -- 21not a new funding source, but that existing funding 22source -- and take a percentage of that to apply to the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 73 21reliever routes on the Phase 1 Corridors. The great bulk2of the Ports-to-Plains issue is -- route is on that.3 So we know we can't create a corridor and shove4all that traffic through the middle of the cities that 5aren't prepared for it. But -- so that funding source --6that's a perfect place for a project like this. And if 7you believe in that and you want to have input into the 8criteria supporting that, you -- everybody in the state 9will receive notifications of those hearings that will 10begin sometime next summer. So that would be a good 11opportunity to get in for that also.12 Secondly, I compliment you for a very good 13presentation. I used to -- as I said before, I did -- I 14used to buy a lot of polystyrene out in Big Spring, and I15had forgotten all about that airport. But I lost an 16engine on my plane once and landed there, and I will 17never forget that airport. They treated me real nice 18there, so I appreciate it.19 No other comments?20 (No response.)21 MR. NICHOLS: We thank you very much, and 22everyone who has driven so far, flown, or come by boat. 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 74 21We recognize that you come -- communities don't happen; 2they're built by people who are concerned. Y'all 3obviously are very concerned about the future of your 4community and have taken that extra step away from your 5daily lives and work to present your needs and dreams for6your community, and we very much appreciate that. And 7have a safe trip back, and thank you.8 We're going to take a three-minute recess, give9them an opportunity to leave.10 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 75 21 CITY OF WICHITA FALLS 2 3(Judge Woodrow "Woody" Gossom, Representative David 4Farabee, Brooke Boddy) 5 6 MR. NICHOLS: Next delegation, City of Wichita 7Falls. Welcome. Judge Gossom.8 JUDGE GOSSOM: Thank you, sir. Good to see 9you, Commissioner.10 MR. NICHOLS: Good to see you again.11 JUDGE GOSSOM: We enjoyed having you in Wichita12Falls, and I hope you were able to travel back 281 safely.13 I did want to tell Commissioner Williamson, the14last time we were down here to talk about 281, he did ask15if we could get right of way donated. Now, we've done 16that to the Wichita County line, sir. I wanted to let 17you know. We even got the road built all the way there 18too.19 It does give us pleasure to come down and be 20able to visit with you all today. We hope we can drag 21some of this rain back home with us, just in case you get22too much down here.23 Mr. Behrens, it's good to see you. We haven't 24had a chance to talk with you since you got your new 25position, but congratulations.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 76 21 I do have one small thing. I want to be sure 2you realize something. Everybody else got one of these 3ties last time. We want you to consider that tie 4[inaudible] necktie [inaudible] Wichita Falls in the 5center of that, we'd like you to proudly wear it.6 At this time I would like to ask Representative7David Farabee from Wichita County to come forward to 8speak. He'll be followed by Brooke Boddy representing 9Representative Hardcastle's office.10 REP. FARABEE: Thank you, Judge Gossom. Thank 11you, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner. And, Mr. Behrens, 12welcome. Good to have you aboard.13 It's neat to have this opportunity today. 14Yesterday as I was driving in, I thought I could beat 15traffic through Fort Worth, so, Commissioner Williamson, 16I took 180 over at Mineral Wells and hit 171, and it took17me about 45 minutes longer. So anyway, I got a taste of 18Weatherford, had an opportunity to go through your 19beautiful community and see your courthouse again. It's 20always a neat experience.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: We hope you left a few dollars.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 77 21 REP. FARABEE: Oh, yes, I did. Yes. I had to,2at least -- yes, because there were just a few stoplights3on that route.4 As you will hear from our distinguished county 5judge and you will also see by the attendance of the 6numerous local officials in our region, these projects 7are important for our area. And I join Representative 8Hardcastle and his staff member today in affording my 9strongest support.10 As you'll hear, the interchange at US 287 and 11US 82 and 277 is structurally ready to go. We had the 12dedication of that facility, our overhead, just this 13week, and it was a neat experience.14 My hat's off to John Barton and Joe Nelson who 15do a wonderful job. Anytime I have a concern from one of16my constituents on a transportation issue, I call them, 17and then within hours, within hours, I hear back from the18constituent saying, They were the most pleasant people in19the world to deal with. And so it says a lot for them.20 But it was a proud moment for us to dedicate 21the overhead just this week. But that is our number one 22project, and you'll hear of some other projects as well 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 78 21that are important to us, such as the extension of US 282/277, which we commonly know as Kell Freeway, which is 3in progress.4 But we need to continue the progress on that 5piece of transportation infrastructure, because of the 6new industries and businesses that are locating. We 7recently had one of the wireless companies that has 8located a 450-employee operation on that piece of highway9and adds to the transportation needs. That -- in front 10of that is in progress, the construction, but as we move 11further west into Archer County, I think it's important 12that we also keep that project in mind, and that would be13US 82/277.14 But again, if I were to come before you today 15and tell you what I feel is our strongest need -- and I 16think you'll hear this again from Judge Gossom and other 17members of our group making presentations or that you'll 18visit with -- is the interchange of 82/287, now that 19we've got the overhead completed through the city.20 So I want to say thank you to Commissioner 21Nichols for coming to Wichita Falls. Obviously the 22overwhelming support of Proposition 15 was buoyed by your3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 79 21attendance at that meeting. And also to Commissioner 2Williamson, thank you for making Weatherford a wonderful 3place to be last night as I traveled this way.4 So are there any questions?5 MR. NICHOLS: I'll probably save most of my 6questions till the end after we hear all the comments and7the presentation.8 REP. FARABEE: Well, thank you for your hard 9work.10 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you for everything you do.11 MR. WILLIAMSON: Will this be the only time 12you'll be at the podium?13 REP. FARABEE: Today. I just wanted to get my 14fair share of time in today.15 (General laughter.)16 MR. WILLIAMSON: On a personal matter, Mr. 17Chairman, I have three children, and I'm painfully aware 18that the road I travel through life will affect my 19children. And I want to take this moment to tell you -- 20I don't know you personally -- but I served on four 21intense and difficult conference committees with Ray 22Farabee, and I shared some acreage with him for a time. 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 80 21And I want to tell you that Ray Farabee paved the way for2good thoughts about his family.3 He was -- is, was one of the most dedicated and4best public servants I observed in my years in the 5legislature.6 REP. FARABEE: Thank you. And rest assured 7that he and I talked before I assumed my position. I 8asked him, you know, who are some of the shining stars 9you've seen come through the process, and he commented on10your ability to take the budget and really work each 11agency to be responsible for their resources. And your 12name came up in that conversation, so he thinks highly of13you as well.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: I appreciate that.15 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.17 MS. BODDY: My name is Brooke Boddy, and I'm 18here today for Representative Rick Hardcastle. And I 19first want to thank you for allowing me to come and speak20and for you to hear my comments. He isn't here today due21to a family illness that is keeping him in Vernon, but he22did want me to share with you and that he is very adamant3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 81 21of his -- he has such a strong support for this project 2and that it does affect his district as well as Mr. 3Farabee's, in that House District 68 surrounds Wichita 4Falls on every side excluding Oklahoma.5 But -- and all of the local highways feed into 6this area, and it is a safety issue as well as an 7economic issue to have this corridor fixed.8 Actually, that's -- I just wanted to show his 9support today of this -- both of the priority of grades 10[phonetic] and to encourage your consideration. And I 11will pass it on to the experts over here that have a lot 12more information than I probably ever will.13 But do you have any questions for me that I can14answer on his behalf?15 MR. NICHOLS: I don't.16 Do you? No.17 MS. BODDY: Thank you.18 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you very much.19 JUDGE GOSSOM: I do want to thank 20Representative Farabee and Brooke for coming representing21Representative Hardcastle. They are -- you know, in the 22redistricting process, one of the things we will hate to 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 82 21lose, we have right now -- we're very fortunate to have 2dual representation of two good state representatives 3there.4 We do have a good delegation for the City of 5Wichita Falls, and I'd like to recognize a few of those 6people. First of all, we have City Councilwoman Linda 7Ammons. Also from our MPO, Staff Director Steve Seese is8here. We have a committee that's a city-county committee9called Transportation Needs Committee, and from that 10committee today we have Ms. Donna Adams, Mr. Paul Foley, 11Mr. J.W. Martin. And citizens we have Jon Moller, one of12the people that's been a vital public support to this.13 Also a couple of people that we have with us 14that we couldn't do without is our district engineer, Joe15Nelson, has come. And from my days as a county 16commissioner to my days as a county judge, Joe has 17brought in and assembled a staff -- John Barton's here, 18Andy Petter. When you go out there, it's not how we 19can't do something; it's how can we do something. And 20that is a welcome attitude, and that has got to be -- 21come from the top down to get out to the field, and we 22appreciate it.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 83 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: You mean he asked, Why not, 2instead of, Why?3 JUDGE GOSSOM: Really, why not get it done 4today instead of tomorrow.5 MR. WILLIAMSON: I like that.6 JUDGE GOSSOM: I like that. I like that.7 At this time, I would like to -- we're going to8show you a video. This is not going to follow the other 9information that you were sent by the delegation, so if I10could ask you all -- I assume that's the screen you all 11use, and we'll follow through there and give you an idea 12of some of the highlights of our petition.13 If you look at this, this is a slide showing 14the regional concept of what you have done for us already15from Abilene to Wichita Falls in the designation of 16277/82. If you look here, one of the things, thinking of17the NAFTA concept, that right now to go from El Paso to 18Oklahoma City, one route's 819 miles, while another one's19799. The short route through Wichita Falls is 752.20 As you fly here with me, you will see now a 21slide coming in from the north of the new overhead 22project. As you look at that, it gives you an idea of 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 84 21the expanse across the Wichita River and what happens 2there.3 We now swing around, if you'd look -- this is 4the beginning of US 277/82, and if you look here and 5here, those are two very important ramps. And if you 6look up to the north, that's where we're going to be 7coming in from.8 Right now, as you look at this slide, if you 9were coming north, you have to get off and take the lower10route and come through here. You can't take this exit 11here. You can't come back this way. You're going to 12stay the lower route. These ramps are going to be very 13important as we come in for people to exit to US 82/277 14going west or coming in from the west to be able to go 15north or south is important.16 The last one will be the highest to come in. 17The view we're giving you here at this time shows you 18that when people have to go to the lower area that 19they're going to go through eleven traffic-controlled 20intersections. They're going to come here and have to 21make this turn and look up and see, Gee, I could've come 22straight through if that overhead would have let me get 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 85 21off -- we'll be there in a second -- somebody needs to 2push the accelerator just a little bit.3 Now, if you'll look right there, there's a ramp4to nowhere. It will come and land and come down and 5allow you to come in. The significance here of this 6slide shows you that you have an intersection here -- 7that's the interchange -- comes out here to Barnett Road 8and to Allendale Road. Both of these are level service 9of E or below, all -- and including this one -- for what 10happens -- then we come out here to Farm-to-Market Road 11369.12 This is what you're doing for us today. This 13is the beginning of the project that's going to take you 14out to those other two intersections I pointed out coming15from the interchange.16 If you note, those overpasses come in to cover 17those heavy traffic areas. In that area, current 18construction of the four-lane from Kemp to Fairway, we 19have seen the growth in this area -- you see the Lowe's 20sign there till Wal-Mart that's just out of your picture 21to the south. Across the way is a 200-unit assisted 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 86 21living center, a brand-new car dealership, a new strip 2mall.3 Representative Farabee mentioned the Cingular 4Wireless with 450 employees in it. There's another 200-5unit assisted living center there, and behind it a 400-6unit apartment complex. As we pan back, you're seeing 7the addition to a subdivision that had been there for 8years that now is doubled, and back in the area you see a9new school.10 This area is growing significantly as we look 11at it. Those intersections -- we show you again -- if 12those are brought in to the program as the extension 13beyond Fairway, we will take away what is becoming the 14two most dangerous intersections in Wichita County.15 I want to bring you back and talk to you just 16in a summary. What you see here, we can't get up to that17brand-new highway you have built us there. That's the 18beginning of US 82/277, which will tie in to three other 19major highways there.20 Once again, I'd like to point out those ramps 21to the right side and to the left are very important to 22have the safe traffic flow through Wichita Falls. With 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 87 21those put in, we will gain mobility and safety and 2actually economy for those people in the professional 3transportation industry.4 MR. NICHOLS: I kept reaching for my seat belt 5every time I'd think it was --6 JUDGE GOSSOM: Well, we had Les Finnell, former7State Representative Charles Finnell's brother, fly that 8for us. We really should have had his wife. She's 9really a better pilot. But we couldn't say that; it was 10a free ride.11 Let's tie together some things about this. You12have much of this information already to you. Funding. 13Wichita Falls began this project with the purchase of the14right of way in 1967. Since that time, we have developed15an MPO group and it's come together with the City of 16Wichita Falls, and working with the endorsement of our 17district TxDOT office, there's a commitment of $5 million18in future 4-D funds to the interchange. There's a 19commitment of $4 million for the final section of the 20main lanes.21 Early completion of the overhead project, which22without rain has gone very well -- I'm not sure the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 88 21tradeoff's as good, but it's been great -- that project, 2with the overheads finishing early, will leave 3approximately $1 million in that fund, and we would like 4to see that put into that interchange project.5 The interchange ramps and the new overpasses 6will improve transportation and efficiency for this very 7significant transportation corridor from the west of El 8Paso to the Northeast. It makes an excellent tie-in.9 While we're doing this, we're going to replace 10the service lanes that were built in 1988 with the four-11lane divided area. Those roads have decreased and their 12deterioration has been 68 percent in the measurements 13since 1993 to 2000. We're using service roads for main 14thoroughfares.15 We have regional support in this. You have 16letters in the packet. We did talk to Representative 17Counts, and he unfortunately couldn't be here for Big 18Spring's presentation either. He sees both projects as 19vital to his district.20 We want you to raise the priority of the second21half of this. We want to see it go into Phase 1 and be a22high priority to open that corridor from the interchange 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 89 21of the overhead highway of I-44 that brings together a 2tremendous hub of highways. You have I-44, US 82/277, US3281, and US 287 that would come into that area.4 If you can do this for us, the effort that you 5gave to Abilene and to Wichita Falls when you approved 6the four-laning of 277 to Wichita Falls, we won't get 7them there and then bring them to a bottleneck. We could8bring them to a safe way to pass through Wichita Falls on9the commercial route they have picked that is the 10shortest from that direction going to Oklahoma City and 11the Northeast.12 Thank you very much. We'd be glad to take 13questions.14 MR. NICHOLS: Do you have any comments or 15questions? I had a couple.16 JUDGE GOSSOM: Yes, sir.17 MR. NICHOLS: So in summary, because of all the18new construction on the freeway and the corridor, what 19the problem is is we need more construction.20 JUDGE GOSSOM: Yes, sir.21 MR. NICHOLS: I'm teasing with you, but I think22y'all have done a very good job in putting together your 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 90 21projects and working with the district and showing the 2needs and stuff and participating. And you've done it 3with a united front from the Wichita Falls area.4 JUDGE GOSSOM: Yes, sir.5 MR. NICHOLS: And most everything that you're 6pointing out is of a regional significance. I have 7driven across this route three times in the last three 8weeks myself, and I remember before the flyover was 9constructed, I don't remember how many stoplights there 10were, but I swear --11 JUDGE GOSSOM: Eleven.12 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. I was going to guess 12 or1313. But I'm sure you know. Between the two of these, 14the interchange and the Kell Freeway, if you -- have 15y'all, as an area, tried to prioritize one or the other, 16if we could only do one of those two? I don't want to 17put you on the spot --18 JUDGE GOSSOM: We have not formally done so. 19We knew you would likely ask that, and I tried to avoid 20that in my presentation.21 MR. NICHOLS: I understand.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 91 21 JUDGE GOSSOM: But the honest realization is 2the ramps are the most important. That's the significant3congestion. But as you just pointed out, Commissioner, 4the success of the ramps has even made the other traffic 5problems. When we do this and you still have the 6crossings at Allendale and Barnett, which both have farm-7to-market road designations -- those are the two most 8unsafe crossings -- it's going to become readily apparent9that we need to get to the west of Farm-to-Market Road 10369.11 MR. NICHOLS: And as the missing gaps on that 12corridor are completed, you're going to have increased 13truck traffic coming the other way.14 So I may have a question to our district 15engineer. On the missing gap or the two-lane gap that's 16going to four-lane between Abilene and up, what is the 17status on that as far as the construction estimated 18completion? Or is that -- oh. That's in the other 19district, isn't it, part of it?20 MR. NELSON: Well, part of it --21 MR. NICHOLS: Oh. Y'all work together.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 92 21 MR. NELSON: In our district, we are still 2awaiting letting the first project and hope to be able to3do that in 2003. And we are trying to accelerate the 4plans so that we will be able to let them in a little 5more rapid succession. I think our last project was to 6have been let in 2008.7 MR. NICHOLS: The last of them?8 MR. NELSON: Yes, sir.9 MR. NICHOLS: So within a -- there'll be 10significant construction between three years from now -- 11two years from now and five years from now --12 MR. NELSON: Yes, sir.13 MR. NICHOLS: -- with an estimated completion 14of about seven years.15 MR. NELSON: Yes, sir.16 MR. NICHOLS: And when that's completed, that's17when you're going to start seeing more trucks divert up 18to that area, I guess.19 MR. NELSON: We're seeing our truck traffic 20increase. I think everybody around the state is. But we21have seen some pretty significant increases. Yes, sir.22 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Anything else?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 93 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: No, sir.2 MR. NICHOLS: All right. We very much 3appreciate y'all taking the time to be here, and 4appreciate what y'all have done. And there's -- did you 5have something else? I see --6 JUDGE GOSSOM: Yes, sir. I do want to give you7a resolution from Abilene supporting this. The other 8thing, I'd like to just pull back in and kind of remind: 9I know we've been blessed by you all's attention to the 10area. But in the original investment put in by the City 11of Wichita Falls to buy the right of way in today's 12dollars now is a $20 million commitment for a project 13that started in -- as Arnold Oliver says, I was brand-new14to the department, I went through, I retired, and eight 15years later it still isn't complete, but it sure is a 16heck of a lot farther along. We appreciate it.17 Let me give you this resolution, and we're 18finished.19 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, sir.20 JUDGE GOSSOM: Thank you.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.22 MR. NICHOLS: That's it? Complete?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 94 21 JUDGE GOSSOM: Yes, sir.2 MR. NICHOLS: All right. Thank you very much 3for the trip. I assume most of y'all -- drive safely. 4The street's wet; be careful. And I look forward to 5being back up in the Wichita Falls area. Y'all's 6hospitality is always very nice.7 We're going to declare a three- to five-minute 8recess so y'all can have a chance to get up and go. 9Thank you very much.10 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 95 21 P R O C E E D I N G S (Resumed)2 MR. NICHOLS: We'll reconvene. Item Number 3, 3approval of the minutes from the October 25 meeting.4 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.5 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.7 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.8 And now we have a resolution. Great pleasure. 9Kirby Pickett. Where's Kirby? What? There he is. 10Kirby, come up to the front. We have something kind of 11special for you up here.12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Wait a minute, Mr. Chairman. 13I went out and bought a pair of brown pants for you.14 MR. PICKETT: Very good. I appreciate that, 15Commissioner.16 MR. NICHOLS: Now, we've got -- we know how 17much you like informal -- things to be informal and 18casual and things of that nature. So today's we're going19to do it in a very formal manner. A resolution, framed, 20sealed, signed. Stand up and read it:21 Whereas, the Texas Transportation Commission 22takes great pride in recognizing Kirby Pickett, an 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 96 21outstanding, dedicated transportation engineer, who has 2served the Department of Transportation for four decades,3most recently as deputy executive director;4 Whereas, Mr. Pickett earned a civil engineering5degree, 1961, University of Texas and received his 6license professional engineer in 1965 and license in 7professional land surveyor -- I didn't realize that -- in81980; devoted 40 years -- 40 years -- of his life to 9public service by holding various positions including 10engineering assistant, Mount Vernon; area engineer, 11Sulphur Springs; district design engineer and assistant 12district engineer of Paris, Texas; became district 13engineer in Waco District in 1986; performed 14exceptionally in fulfilling his responsibilities for all 15transportation projects and programs in the eight-county 16district;17 Whereas, he was recognized by his peers as the 18Dean -- you have to be kind of old, as I understand, on 19that one -- Dean of the District Engineers, 1995; and 20championed the department's research program by pursuing 21his commitment to deliver quality transportation products22and services, keen interest in and deep appreciation for 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 97 21the rich history of the department prompted his oversight2in the opening of the department's historical exhibit in 3the Dewitt Greer Building;4 Whereas, Mr. Pickett is an exemplary and 5distinguished gentleman, highly regarded by his wife 6Gerry and his son John as a committed and devoted husband7and father; and8 Whereas, Mr. Pickett will now retire -- 9although I understand you have to stay till the end of 10the month --11 MR. PICKETT: Yes.12 MR. NICHOLS: -- although he will now retire 13from public service to pursue a life of private 14endeavors, the department and the Transportation 15Commission hereby recognizes and thanks Kirby Pickett for16his professional career achievements and loyal service on17behalf of the State of Texas. Signed by the entire 18commission.19 So, congratulations.20 (Applause.)21 MR. PICKETT: Well, thank you very much. It's 22been interesting. In some ways, it seems like a very 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 98 21short time ago that I started. I think there are a lot 2of factors in deciding when to retire, and until August 3when Wes retired -- we have eight pictures on the back 4wall of previous state highway engineers. Until Wes 5retired, before they put his picture up, I had not worked6for all of them. Gib Gilcrest left the department the 7year I was born is the reason that happened.8 But once they moved his over to the side wall 9and put Wes' up, I now have worked for all eight of the 10folks on the back wall, including, since September, Mike.11So I think that was a good clue for me.12 But anyhow, do appreciate the resolution. And 13I'm going to miss seeing what in the world y'all do next.14 (General laughter; applause.)15 MR. NICHOLS: Gerry, you want to come up here 16too?17 (Pause for photographs.)18 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Mike, I'm going to go 19ahead and turn it over to you to go through the rest of 20the items.21 MR. BEHRENS: Okay. We'll start with Item 22Number 5, which is a report from the Grand Parkway 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 99 21Association, and Jim will introduce the folks from Grand 2Parkway.3 MR. RANDALL: Jim Randall, Transportation 4Planning and Programming Division. Department rules 5pertaining to transportation corporations require that a 6corporation make an annual report to the commission on 7its current condition, status of projects, and activities8undertaken during the preceding 12 months. Mr. David 9Gornet, director of the association, is here today to 10give you this report.11 MR. GORNET: Good morning, Commissioners. I 12appreciate the chance to come and visit with you all and 13give a presentation on the status of the Grand Parkway 14Association and our project.15 First, I'd like to take the opportunity to 16introduce myself. Commissioner Nichols and I have met 17previously. Commissioner Williamson, I don't know if 18I've had the honor. I have 20 years' experience in 19transportation planning, have spent the past two-and-a-20half years with the association. Previously, you all 21have heard from Ms. Diane Schenke as the past executive 22director of the association. She resigned this past 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 100 21spring to join the Nature Conservancy of Texas to go work2on the green side and try to develop habitat, and she's 3looking forward to working closely with the association 4so that she can do mitigation projects and such to help 5preserve habitat while we can move forward with our 6transportation needs.7 And to assist me, I have recently hired Ms. 8Robin Sterry, who -- formerly of TxDOT, she has 16-plus 9years' experience with TxDOT and most recently was the 10Houston District environmental coordinator. And when I 11was looking for someone to help assist me, I wanted 12someone that knew the project, knew the people, and knew 13the process that was involved, and she fulfilled all of 14that to a T, and so I welcome her assistance in us trying15to push this project forward.16 We'll go through a report on the status of the 17project. If y'all have any questions, please feel free 18to interrupt me at any point in time. Robin, first slide.19 The Grand Parkway Project was first proposed in201961 by the City of Houston as part of its master 21planning efforts. In 1968, it was formally included on 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 101 21the general study plan for the city of Houston for the 21990, their 20-year horizon plan.3 In 1984, the Grand Parkway Association was 4established as a state transportation corporation. It's 5my understanding we are the last of the remaining state 6transportation corporations. And the entire loop of the 7Grand Parkway since 1984 has been designated as State 8Highway 99. We currently have open, from I-10 to US 59, 9about 19 miles of that.10 Next slide. The purpose of the Association of 11State Transportation Corporations was to facilitate 12public-private partnerships between TxDOT, who had 13limited resources, and local counties, cities, 14authorities in the Houston region, such as the 15Metropolitan Transportation Authority or the Harris 16County Tollroad Authority, and private landowners. The 17association works as a go-between between all these 18organizations to help move the project forward as quickly19as possible.20 Besides working that partnership, the Grand 21Parkway Association -- or the Grand Parkway Project 22enhances regional mobility; we address the existing and 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 102 21projected congestion; we look to minimize overall impacts2to both the human and natural environments, work on 3hurricane evacuation needs for the southern area of the 4metropolitan region of Houston, and we try to exemplify 5responsible planning.6 For years the Grand Parkway has been identified7as a project necessary for the metropolitan area of 8Houston. It's been continued in the Houston-Galveston 9area councils' master planning efforts for 2020 and now 10in 2025. We work to preserve the corridor, provide for 11limited access highway, and ultimately we hope to reduce 12the time and cost of project implementation through our 13partnerships.14 What we're trying to provide is not this, which15is a picture of FM 1960, which is oftentimes what happens16when we have a good road, but growth occurs so rapidly 17that we can't respond to those changes in a timely 18fashion. You end up with a lot of congestion in an 19unsightly fashion.20 We're trying to develop a highway without 21billboards. We use scenic easements, when we can get 22those from the adjacent landowners, that's limited access3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 103 21with no driveways on and off, that meets the needs of our2transportation system; that is, to provide mobility.3 We're also trying to develop it with a minimum 4amount of frontage roads in accordance with you all's 5June action. This has been in place since 1984 for the 6Grand Parkway to try to minimize the amount of frontage 7roads so that we can, again, address mobility and not the8access to the local properties.9 What we have is a highway that has ramps on and10off, but the major thoroughfares and ultimately the 11development will occur along the thoroughfare network, 12and the highway will continue to serve its mobility 13functions.14 This is an overall map. Segments have been 15labeled, obviously, going clockwise, A through I-2. I'll16go into details on each of the segments. That's the 17general map. We have segments A and B, which are in 18the -- A goes from 146 to I-45 in the League City and 19Dickinson area of Galveston County. As yet, we have no 20studies underway in that area, and we're not expecting to21start a study in that area in the near future.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 104 21 Segment B, the commission has recently acted on2a partnership with Brazoria County. Galveston County is 3funding this out of its bond issue that it did last 4November, for us to initiate a study. We're now 5negotiating those contracts with a consultant and with 6the Houston District to get those approved.7 Segment C, you all probably received some 8comments in years past on the actions that we're taking 9there and looking at alternate alignments that were close10to Brazos Bend State Park, and those have received a lot 11of opposition. The blue line we're proposing there is a 12mile and a half north of the state park. It's out of the13watersheds of the streams that feed into the state park 14and will minimize impacts in there. It still traverses a15large part of the Brazos River flood plain, but 16unavoidably, we're going to cross the Brazos River down 17in there somewhere.18 The remaining activities we have on C, we've 19already had the draft environmental impact statement, the20public hearing. We're looking forward to publishing the 21final environmental impact statement this spring and 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 105 21getting a record of decision as soon as possible so we 2can move that forward.3 Fort Bend County, last November, passed a bond 4issue that included $7.3 million of design money, and 5they're looking forward to participating and partnering 6with TxDOT to move into construction as quickly as 7possible.8 Segment D is the segment open 19 miles from US 959 to I-10. That's had a tremendous amount of traffic 10growth over the past few years, 40 percent from '97 to 11'99. We do not have 2001 numbers yet.12 The next segments we're looking as a package, 13Segment E, F-1, F-2, and G, that go from I-10 to US 290 14to State Highway 249 to Interstate 45 North to US 59 15North around the west and northern sides from the 16metropolitan Houston area. That study started in July of171999. We're anticipating four environmental documents 18for that. It's possible that it could become a tollroad.19The Harris County Tollroad Authority and TxDOT are 20participating in the funding of the route environmental 21studies for this.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 106 21 There's also some interest in designating that 2as I-69. U.S. Representative Kevin Brady is very 3supportive of that being I-69, although that does raise 4some concerns with local citizens, particularly in the F-52 area, over the increased truck traffic.6 The progress we've had on that -- we started in7July of '99. We held meetings in August '99, February 8and June of 2000, and we looked at going from a wide 9study area, narrowing that down to corridors and then to 10specific alignments for consideration. Those alternative11alignments through that whole area we presented in 12October, and we've been taking comments on that and 13refining that.14 And in specific segments, on E we go from the 15orange alignments that were recommended ones to the 16purple one that is the preferred route that we're going 17to be documenting our draft environmental impact 18statements.19 On Segment F-1, again, we had numerous 20alternatives and a preferred route that we intend to 21recommend.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 107 21 Segment F-2 -- this is an area where we had a 2lot of concern, and you all probably got letters from -- 3and the laser pointer's not working very well up there --4south of where it says Spring Creek, west of the town of 5Old Town Spring, we have -- you can see with the greater 6number of alternatives, we were trying to find a solution7that worked to avoid impacts to the businesses, to the 8homes in the area, as well as to minimize impacts to the 9developments that are oncoming.10 That's a very rapidly growing area, and I've 11had statements made by the local citizenry, Why would you12want to put a new road in the fastest growing part of 13Harris County. And I think they've answered the question14for themselves, is because we need to look at 15transportation as an infrastructure, just like water 16supply or drainage, that they need to -- we need to plan 17for so that as the area grows, we can make those 18improvements.19 Segment G from I-45 to US 59, again, the 20alternate routes and the route that we look to recommend 21as the preferred. The schedule of activities remaining 22is to publish the draft environmental impact statements 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 108 21for all four segments. They will be done sequentially, 2starting with E and then F-1, F-2, and G.3 When I talked about those recommended preferred4alternatives early, those have all been coordinated 5through continuous meetings with the resource agencies, 6have been as cooperative as you might expect on a new 7location highway project, as well as with the TxDOT 8district personnel, personnel in Austin, and Federal 9Highways. And we've come to consensus on what to 10recommend based on minimizing impacts to the human and 11the natural environment.12 Again, we're going to publish the draft 13environmental impact statements, hold our public 14hearings, do the final environmental impact statements, 15and hope to have records of decisions on those segments 16in 2003.17 Again, Harris County Tollroad Authority, the 18Harris County government, is very interested in moving 19this as fast as possible and would like to partner with 20TxDOT. And the passing of Proposition 15 will help 21facilitate that, and so that could move it into 22construction in as early as 2004, if the resources 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 109 21available are available with TxDOT as well as with the 2Harris County Tollroad Authority.3 One segment we don't have any studies on, or 4two segments, are H and I-1. When we met yesterday 5morning with the Montgomery county judge who has part of 6segment H, he says, We need to do this whole thing. And 7I said, Well, Judge, when you talk to Gary Trietsch there8in the Houston District, or if you have a chance to visit9with any of our commissioners, tell them that, and we'll 10see how we can move to build the partnership to get that 11planned and move forward so that we can have the corridor12preserved and be ready to address the needs of that area 13as it grows.14 Segment I-2 is ready for construction. We're 15signing the donation deeds on that segment. It's 16currently -- it's programmed for April of 2003, and we 17sure hope to hit that target date -- for the northern 18segment in -- April 2002 for the northern segment, 2003 19for the southern. And that will match with the 20agreements that Commissioner Nichols negotiated with the 21U.S. Steel Corporation two or three years ago, so that we22can continue to get their funding and their donations.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 110 21 That's the end of our presentation. I'd be 2glad to answer any questions.3 MR. NICHOLS: Do you have any questions?4 MR. WILLIAMSON: You do work for this 5association.6 MR. GORNET: Yes, sir.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: You also do work for the 8Greater Houston Partnership?9 MR. GORNET: No, sir, I do not.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.11 MR. NICHOLS: That's it?12 MR. WILLIAMSON: That's it.13 MR. NICHOLS: I had several questions.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm just looking for the guy 15that does.16 MR. NICHOLS: The -- I'll bet you find him now.17 (General laughter.)18 MR. NICHOLS: Now I lost my train of thought.19 Okay. On the -- first of all, very good 20report. And the greater -- the Parkway's a great 21project. It's certainly going to be well -- it's greatly3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 111 21needed as time develops. I think it's about 170 miles 2around or something to that nature?3 MR. GORNET: Yes, sir. 177 miles.4 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Now, I went to y'all's 5board meeting a couple years ago, and as we talked to the6board and the different members, since this was being 7developed as a very restricted access -- I think was the 8term you used -- it looked like a perfect opportunity for9it to be developed as a tollroad. But we also recognized10at the time that as it's developed in segments, which is 11all that could be afforded, that each segment with the 12beginning traffic probably would not support it as a 13tollroad.14 But the whole world began changing, I think, 15November 6, because now the citizens of the state have 16agreed that the Department of Transportation can 17participate with highway funds on toll projects, and I 18think we're going to be very anxious to take any project 19and develop it as such, particularly on new locations 20like this. So I hope that as y'all develop and move 21forward, that as you have your public hearings that we 22make sure that we're leaving that option open.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 112 21 MR. GORNET: We are, sir. And very 2specifically in the E, F-1, F-2, and G areas in western 3and northern Harris County, we have been working keeping 4the Harris County Tollroad up to date on what's going on.5They were anticipating the passage of Proposition 15 on 6November 6, and they are interested, as I stated, in 7making this a tollroad. And we have developed it so that8we've already talked about, Well, if you do it as a 9tollroad, where do you have your ramps on and off; where 10can you put your plazas.11 So we're thinking ahead and to that fashion, 12because that will be a very obvious opportunity to do a 13toll facility, and the synergistic effects of each of 14these segments building upon one another will help grow 15that traffic so that it is a viable toll project.16 MR. NICHOLS: And the issue of whether that 17falls into the Harris County Tollway Authority 18jurisdiction or regional mobility or whatever, those 19issues we're going to work out along the way --20 MR. GORNET: Yes, sir.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 113 21 MR. NICHOLS: -- as long as in that process 2you're developing it as -- at least the option of a 3tollroad in there.4 MR. GORNET: Yes, sir.5 MR. NICHOLS: The section that goes to the U.S.6Steel property, we had told them that that could be 7developed as a tollroad. Is that being currently laid 8out? I think it's being laid out as a non-tollroad.9 MR. GORNET: It is being laid out as a non-toll10facility at this point in time.11 MR. NICHOLS: Now, I know there's -- I'm going 12to ask our executive director, since Gary's not here. 13With the new authority that we should have when the 14canvassing is complete, I know when he laid that thing 15out, that was one of the ideas. It was developed as a 16non-tollroad, but it was very limited access and stuff.17 Is there still a possibility that before that 18thing is completed it might be a tollroad? Could we -- I19mean, have we gone so far that we can't do it that way? 20Because we told U.S. Steel, who was the bulk of the 21property owner, in that agreement that it might be a 22tollroad. I don't think they had a problem with it.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 114 21 MR. GORNET: I believe they could still be -- 2they're just starting the design on that southern segment3from 565 down around to 1405 -- that we could implement 4it.5 MR. NICHOLS: Okay.6 MR. BEHRENS: I think the biggest impact would 7be probably, as -- you know, we look at it now, and see 8if there's areas that we can pinpoint for toll booths and9things like that. That's the major change in the design,10would be location of toll booths.11 MR. NICHOLS: Would you get whoever to dig into12that and --13 MR. BEHRENS: Sure.14 MR. NICHOLS: -- let's get back on it? It 15might be Phil. I'll direct my comments to Mike, since 16you're over there. You weren't prepared for that.17 What else?18 MR. GORNET: That was it, sir.19 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Very nice to meet you. I 20look forward to getting back down to one of your 21meetings, possibly this coming year.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 115 21 MR. GORNET: We will make sure we keep you all 2apprised of when our board meetings are. Well, they're 3always the second Thursday of the month, typically at 48:30 in the morning. And we'll make sure you all get the5notices of them.6 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you.7 MR. GORNET: Thank you, gentlemen.8 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.9 Did you have a question?10 MR. WILLIAMSON: No.11 MR. NICHOLS: Excuse me a second.12 (Pause.)13 MR. BEHRENS: Okay. Before we get to Item 6, 14we will cover Item 6, and then we're going to move to 15Item 11, which will consider the agreement with 16Transportation Corridor Constructors. So those of you 17that are going to be involved in that minute order and 18those of you that are going to be commenting when that 19item comes up, I just wanted to give you some warning.20 So now we'll take Item 6, and then we'll go to 21Item 11. And Dave Fulton with the Aviation Division will22present Item 6.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 116 21 MR. FULTON: Thank you, Mike. My name is, for 2the record, David Fulton. I'm the director of the TxDOT 3Aviation Division.4 Item 6(a) is a minute order containing a 5request for reauthorization of the Routine Airport 6Maintenance Program for fiscal year 2002. This program 7provides 50-50 matching funds to assist communities in 8the maintenance and preservation of their airports, not 9to exceed $30,000 per airport during the year.10 Item 6(b) is a minute order that contains a 11request for grant funding for eight airport improvement 12projects. The total estimated cost of all requests as 13shown on the Exhibit A is approximately $8.8 million, 5.214federal, 2.5 state, and 1.1 local. A public hearing was 15held on October 29 of this year. No comments were 16received.17 I'd be happy to attempt to answer any 18questions, and we would recommend approval.19 MR. NICHOLS: Do you have any questions?20 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.21 MR. NICHOLS: We've got a motion, a second. 22I've got a couple questions --3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 117 21 MR. FULTON: Yes, sir.2 MR. NICHOLS: -- or comments. First of all, on3the state dollars -- most of this is federal funds, but 4on the state portion, as I understand it, the money comes5out of the nondedicated portion of the Highway Fund?6 MR. FULTON: That's correct. Yes, sir. We do 7not get any general revenue funds for our program. The 8department -- the commission has committed approximately 916- or $16-1/2 million a year for a state grant program 10from the nondedicated portion of the Highway Fund.11 MR. NICHOLS: Nondedicated portion.12 Second question, which I had asked, and I want 13to make comment on, which you had answered previously, 14has to do with one -- most of these airports we work with15are publicly owned, city owned, county owned, things of 16that nature. Occasionally -- that's why I flagged this 17one -- it is a privately owned airport. Clover 18Acquisition Corporation, Clover Field? Correct?19 MR. FULTON: That's correct. Yes, sir.20 MR. NICHOLS: When I asked the question, What 21is going on, you -- would you explain that situation?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 118 21 MR. FULTON: I will. Yes, sir. First of all, 2state funds are statutorily prohibited for use on 3private-use facilities. So no state funds are ever 4allocated to airports that belong to private individuals.5 The federal government, the FAA, does have a 6program that airports that have been designated as 7reliever airports, relieving congestion at major urban 8air carrier airports, are eligible for funding, even if 9they are privately owned. It's the only category of 10airport that is privately owned that is eligible for 11federal funding.12 There are 21 relievers in Texas, and there are,13I believe, two that are privately owned -- three that are14privately owned. So they are eligible for federal 15funding.16 MR. NICHOLS: And there is an agreement in 17writing that they cannot pull the public status away next18year or the year after.19 MR. FULTON: That's correct. The federal 20regulations require a minimum of ten years. We 21negotiated 20 years. And their obligation is to ensure 22they will operate that airport.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 119 21 MR. NICHOLS: So there is an obligated 20-year 2commitment --3 MR. FULTON: Contractual obligation that they 4operate it for a minimum of 20 years. Yes, sir.5 MR. NICHOLS: All right. I seconded that 6motion. All in favor, say aye.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.8 MR. NICHOLS: Aye.9 Thank you.10 MR. FULTON: Thank you.11 MR. BEHRENS: Okay. Now we -- as we stated, 12we'll go to Item 11, and 11(a) will be deferred, so we'll13move to Item 11(b), and Phil Russell will make that 14presentation.15 MR. RUSSELL: Thanks, Mike. Good morning, 16Commissioners. For the record, my name is Phillip 17Russell, and I am the director of the Texas Turnpike 18Authority Division.19 In June of 2000, the TTA received an 20unsolicited proposal from the Transportation Corridor 21Constructors. This consortium is composed of the Zachry 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 120 21Construction Corporation, Strategic Land Management 2Consultants, and the HNTB Corporation.3 The proposal provides for the construction of a4ten-mile turnpike extending from FM 1626 on the west to 5US 183 on the east side in Travis and Hays counties. The6proposal includes for right of way acquisition, design, 7and construction services.8 The proposed State Highway 45 South project 9will provide safety and mobility benefits for the regions10while providing a critically needed east-west arterial 11for northern Hays and southern Travis counties. The 12connection to US 183 and proposed State Highway 130 will 13provide a more direct access to Austin Bergstrom 14International Airport.15 The proposal specifies a fixed sum project cost16of $120 million dollars, which includes TxDOT 17participation of 17 million and the issuance of 18approximately 100- to $103 million in bonds. 19Interchanges, bridges, ramps, and other improvements 20identified by the department would be included in the $1721million. All project right of way would be provided by 22the consortium.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 121 21 The unsolicited proposal has been processed in 2accordance with the TTA Exclusive Development Agreement 3rules, which require a posting period to allow for 4competing proposals and the acceptance of a financial 5feasibility certificate. No competing proposals were 6received, and the financial feasibility certificate was 7received and approved.8 A preliminary traffic and revenue report has 9been compiled by the URS Corporation, which indicates 10that the project is potentially feasible. Of course, an 11investment-grade traffic and revenue report will be 12required prior to any bond issuance.13 The minute order pending before you would 14authorize the department to negotiate in a development 15agreement with the Transportation Corridor Constructors. 16And, of course, we would bring the negotiated agreement 17back to the commission at a later date for your approval.18 Staff recommends approval of this minute order,19and I'll be happy to address any questions you might have.20 MR. NICHOLS: There probably will be some 21questions. We've got a number of people who have signed 22up to speak, and we'll go to those and then stay handy.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 122 21 First speaker is Mike Aulick, executive 2director, Capital Area Metropolitan Planning Organization.3 MR. AULICK: Mr. Chairman, I'm Michael Aulick. 4Representative Krusee is also in the audience on this 5item. I don't know if --6 MR. NICHOLS: I think he had requested to speak7later.8 MR. AULICK: Okay. Thank you. Maureen is 9handing out a letter that we sent to Phillip Russell.10 I'm Michael Aulick. I'm here from CAMPO, and 11I'm here to help. That's supposed to be a joke.12 (General laughter.)13 MR. AULICK: Thank you. Sometimes CAMPO has --14our reputation precedes us. But what I wanted to do is 15come forth and talk about what CAMPO has been doing 16related to this project. And personally, I endorse the 17action of the minute order. My board hasn't taken an 18action on it, but I personally endorse that.19 What our board has been dealing with is the 20timing of State Highway 45 South. We've been dealing 21with Loop 1 project with the Austin District, trying to 22move it from the major investment study process into the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 123 21NEPA process, and we've had a special committee and 2technical teams reviewing that. And one of the things 3that came out of that process was to endorse the 4completion of Loop 1 to the north, the tollroad 5extension, release that right of way funding for Capital 6Metro through the city of Austin. And that was done.7 And then the board on -- they did this on 8October 8. They said we should proceed on Loop 1 North. 9And then on 45 South, the language that's there in the 10letter, it said, "State Highway 45 South should not be 11completed between FM 1626 and I-35 South until SH 12130/State Highway 45 South is completed from I-35 North 13to I-35 South so as not to turn Loop 1 into a bypass."14 And the basic issue is what is the first 15bypass. And my board was indicating they would like the 16bypass to be on the east first; that is, 45 and 130.17 MR. NICHOLS: You're talking about the entire 18CAMPO?19 MR. AULICK: Beg your pardon?20 MR. NICHOLS: When you say the board, are you 21talking about the entire CAMPO.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 124 21 MR. AULICK: Yes. The entire CAMPO board on 2October 8 --3 MR. NICHOLS: Voted on that?4 MR. AULICK: Yes. They did that on October 8 5by motion.6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, wait a minute now. Is 7there a difference between the Policy Advisory Committee 8and the CAMPO board?9 MR. AULICK: No. I'm sorry. The official name10is Policy Advisory Committee. I --11 MR. NICHOLS: That is not the full --12 MR. AULICK: Twenty-one member --13 MR. NICHOLS: That is the 21-member CAMPO?14 MR. AULICK: -- Policy Advisory Board.15 MR. WILLIAMSON: So the Policy Advisory 16Committee is made up of one and the same people as all 17the members of CAMPO.18 MR. AULICK: That's correct.19 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay.20 MR. AULICK: It's chaired by Senator Barrientos.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 125 21 MR. AULICK: So on October 8, they adopted 2those two -- that motion with the language shown there. 3And then they also set a hearing for this coming Monday, 4the 19th, to consider that as an amendment to our long-5range plan. We meet November 19 with a hearing, and then6we would vote on December 10 on that amendment to our 7plan.8 So I wanted to come and tell you where we are 9in the process. It's an issue of timing. And again, the10motivation was to try to have a bypass on the east opened11before there's, quote, a bypass on the west.12 And really, what I'm asking -- I just want to 13inform you of that, and then essentially just ask for 14discussion and coordination on the issue of timing --15 MR. NICHOLS: Okay.16 MR. AULICK: -- of the road, as we go on. As I17said, my board hasn't taken a position on the exclusive 18development agreement. Personally, I think that's 19something that I would endorse being done, and our issue 20is just timing. And we would just like to --21 MR. NICHOLS: So you're not opposed to the 22project --3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 126 21 MR. AULICK: No.2 MR. NICHOLS: -- as a group. You just --3 MR. AULICK: It's in our -- the project is in 4our plan.5 MR. NICHOLS: Did you have any questions for --6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Why was I under the impression 7that CAMPO had previously indicated some kind of support 8for this?9 MR. AULICK: It's in our plan.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Was I misinformed?11 MR. AULICK: The road is in our plan, which we 12adopted in June of 2000, State Highway 45 South.13 MR. WILLIAMSON: And was it in your plan in 14June of 2000 with these exceptions?15 MR. AULICK: No.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. So it's not been 17misrepresented to me, then. Because it's been 18represented to me that this was part of your approved 19plan for the area without these exceptions you're now 20making us aware of.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 127 21 MR. AULICK: That is correct. These exceptions2were adopted on October 8 and will be formally considered3in a hearing this coming Monday and a vote on December 10.4 MR. WILLIAMSON: Don't misunderstand me, Mr. 5Chairman. I don't want to be misunderstood by our own 6department. Senator Barrientos is a personal friend of 7mine. I have deep respect for him. Don't want to be in 8a position of being on the other side of the table from 9him. But how does your organization expect us and 10private sector participants in the transportation world 11to plan if you adopt plans and then at kind of the last 12minute come tell us that you want to put provisos on 13them? How can we be logical and prudent and visionary 14under those circumstances?15 MR. AULICK: Well, I don't know if I can 16completely answer that question, but this issue came up 17because we were talking about Loop 1 and what should 18happen to it. And that discussion --19 MR. WILLIAMSON: But this proposal, as I 20understand it, doesn't connect to Loop 1, does it?21 MR. AULICK: It would allow eventually the 22connection of Loop 1 on the south to I-35.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 128 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, I thought there was some2physical gap between the start and the stop of this 3proposal and the south end of Loop 1.4 MR. AULICK: There's a project from the south 5end of Loop 1 to 1626 that's funded and I think expected 6to go to contract this year, which would be a two-lane 7road built with, I believe, state funds, to connect from 8Loop 1 to 1626. And this project would take up from 9there and continue over to I-35 and then to 183.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: So are you saying that this 11proposal that Mr. Russell's brought to us is contingent 12on this other thing? Are you leading me down that path?13 MR. AULICK: No. I'm saying the action that's 14before you today, CAMPO does not oppose that. All we're 15talking about is in the future, when we talk about the 16timing of the projects, we'd just like to -- my board 17would like to have discussions with TxDOT in 18considerations of the timing.19 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, then wouldn't it be more20logical for you to be talking to us about the piece that 21connects this project with Loop 1? I mean, what -- I 22don't understand.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 129 21 MR. AULICK: Yes. Well, that one was approved 2to bypass traffic that's coming out of Hays County trying3to get to Loop 1 that was otherwise coming up Brody Lane 4through Shady Hollow. And so the connection from 1626 to5Loop 1 was put in there to prevent the traffic from going6through that neighborhood and be able to go directly to 7Loop 1. That decision was made several years ago, and 8then the commission decided to fund that.9 So, I mean, that part, there's a rationale for 10that part, and now we're talking about moving east 11towards I-35. And, I mean, we don't -- I just wanted to 12make it clear what CAMPO has done and what we're 13considering doing formally and make sure there's no -- 14some people have said CAMPO's opposed to the road at all,15and that's not true, because it is in our plan.16 MR. NICHOLS: Let me ask a couple questions. 17And don't leave the podium, but I need to ask Phil a 18question.19 On the -- when this proposal for the exclusive 20development was brought to the TTA board, it was an 21unsolicited proposal.22 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 130 21 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. But it was a project that 2was on the books as approved by CAMPO at the time. About3when was the first action or posting of an action that 4ever occurred by TTA or discussed in an open meeting by 5TTA? Do you happen to recall --6 MR. RUSSELL: On this proposal?7 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. Was it six months ago or --8 MR. RUSSELL: I think it was brought to us 9originally in the July 2000 board meeting. And if memory10serves me, it was posted somewhere probably in the 11September time frame of that same year, September --12 MR. WILLIAMSON: 2000 or 2001?13 MR. RUSSELL: 2000.14 MR. NICHOLS: 2000.15 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Over a year ago?17 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. We had -- I remember some 18of the initial conceptual on that. But CAMPO approved 19the list of projects in 2000, June of 2000. I think 20shortly after that -- and the official action that was 21posted for the entire public to see and participate began22in about September.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 131 21 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.2 MR. NICHOLS: It was just a little over a year 3ago. And the TTA board, which normally meets here in 4this room, which met approximately once a month or every 5other month or something like that, there were a number 6of actions scattered over the year with regards to that. 7Some were the concept of the board -- I'm on that board --8and whether or not that board wanted to move forward. I 9think they chose that they did. They advertised for 10other proposals.11 MR. RUSSELL: That's correct. 45-day 12advertising period.13 MR. NICHOLS: And there were time periods. And14then as that closed out, it was posted again and 15advertised. The board had more discussions, and they've 16had updates.17 The commission later took action. I think 18there were some resolutions from the Transportation 19Commission, so they were -- I mean, it's not as if this 20was something that was slipped in under the tent, is my 21point. In all good faith -- and I think in all good 22faith of CAMPO in approving a list of projects, we have 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 132 21been trying to proceed forward in an open, forthright 2manner with the projects, knowing that CAMPO had asked us3to do this. And I was not aware of any requests or 4restrictions of timing of other projects at that time.5 But the -- there have been numerous actions and6public notices and discussions, most of which have been 7in this room in front of the whole world. I don't know 8how many meetings we've had on that thing in this room, 9but probably at least six or eight or nine over 10approximately a one-year period of time. So I was trying11to get the timing from you.12 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.13 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Did you -- were you -- 14Michael, were you aware of any of those meetings?15 MR. AULICK: Yes, sir. And I attended at least16one of them and, you know, just to say it was in our plan17and we'd just like to be involved in the discussions of 18what was going forward.19 The thing I'm bringing to you today came out of20the deliberations that my board has been ongoing since 21June on Loop 1 HOV and looking at the entire corridor. 22And that's where this came from. That's the reason I'm 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 133 21bringing it to you now. It was first adopted October 8, 2and then as I say, it's currently being considered for 3formal adoption in the plan. But --4 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. Well, I was in receipt of 5the letter that you sent, but it's dated October 29, so I6got it -- well, they usually stamp them when I received 7them. But really, I only got mine just less than a week 8ago.9 MR. AULICK: Yes, sir.10 MR. NICHOLS: So that's the first time I've 11really gotten any kind of notice from anybody 12representing CAMPO that there is a timing mechanism in 13there.14 Do you have anything further to add?15 MR. AULICK: Well, I just want to make it clear16that personally I support the recommended action, 11(b), 17and all I'm bringing to you is what the board is doing 18relative to timing.19 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you very much.20 Next speaker is Bill Bundy? -- I can read; I 21just have a hard time reading the writing -- with Save 22Our Springs? I have a card from Bill Bundy. It could be3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 134 21Bunch -- it's just hard to read the writing -- the 2executive director of Save Our Springs Alliance. Is he 3in the room or out in the hallway?4 MR. WILLIAMSON: They're checking. He's maybe 5out in the hallway.6 MR. NICHOLS: He's checking. He may be in the 7hallway. He's officially showing he's opposed to the 8project. I'm going to hold this card, since he's not 9here.10 We have Representative Mike Krusee.11 REP. KRUSEE: Good morning, Commissioners.12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Good morning.13 REP. KRUSEE: I'm shown as being on this item, 14but I want to make clear that I'm not against the item at15all. I really am in support of it and think you should 16take action today on it.17 The reason that I'm -- Gary Bradley has been a 18very valuable member of this community, and this is 19another example of his valuable contributions to this 20entire region.21 But this is really my first opportunity to 22address you since Proposition 15 passed. And I wanted to3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 135 21let you know that we are very excited here in Central 2Texas about the opportunity to take advantage of the 3Regional Mobility Authorities.4 We are working together as a region, the -- all5the different various political jurisdictions -- the 6counties, the cities -- exploring whether this can be a 7valuable tool. Right now it looks like it can be. We 8are very interested, eager, and we're going to be 9aggressive in trying to work with you in setting up a 10Regional Mobility Authority, at least for Williamson and 11Travis and perhaps also with Hays County.12 And the only thing I'd say is as you are 13considering any -- whether it's this item or any other 14item here in Central Texas, please bear that in mind and 15don't take any action -- and I don't believe this action 16today would preempt an RMA for this region -- but as you 17consider those items, please don't take any action that 18would preempt the work that we would like to do on 183-A,19on SH 45, on the MoPac extension, and SH 130.20 We're very excited about the new tools that 21have been given to us by the voters of Texas to build 22more roads and to build them quicker and more efficiently.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 136 21 Also wanted to add a personal note, and that is2there's two people in particular I wanted to note. Phil 3Russell and Bob Daigh over at the Turnpike Authority have4just been excellent. They have been -- I can't name 5another state agency in Texas where they have been more 6responsive to our needs in getting these things done. I 7mean, late at night, going to town hall meetings, 8whatever it takes, they will interrupt their day, come up9with the information we need, show up to the meeting 10where we need them, and do an excellent, professional job11of representing themselves, sometimes against hostile 12crowds or crowds that aren't really quite sure what's 13going to happen. They've just been excellent.14 The other point that I wanted to make is that I15know in the past the Central Texas region hasn't always 16agreed on what they want to do and the direction they 17want to go. But during the last year, and especially 18during the last, you know, six months or so, I've seen 19this region come together like it never has before. A 20lot of that has been due to leadership on the part of 21people like Mayor Watson of Austin and Lee Walker with 22the Capital Metro Authority. But also at Travis County --3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 137 21and you've seen how the voters overwhelmingly approved 2the bond so we could go forward with the right of way.3 I really do think that we have turned the 4corner in Central Texas, and we are all working together 5in unprecedented way to move forward on these projects.6 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you very much.7 Do you have any --8 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, I just, for one, want to9thank you for taking the time to come up and express 10interest in the -- something that's important to me, the 11Regional Mobility Authority. And I also want to thank 12you for -- anytime leaders stand up and say, Give us a 13chance to work together; give us a chance to solve our 14own problems; give us a chance to take advantage of the 15tools, that is an exciting thing. And I personally thank16you for those words and thank you for coming and making 17us aware of your interest.18 REP. KRUSEE: Thank you.19 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you for your time today.20 I'm going to give one more opportunity for -- 21it's either Bill Bunch or Bill Bundy? -- I'm sorry; I 22can't read the writing -- Save Our Springs.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 138 21 MR. CLARK: Hello. My name is Colin Clark, and2I work for Save Our Springs Alliance. Bill was here 3earlier, and I stepped outside because --4 MR. NICHOLS: Bill Clark?5 MR. CLARK: Colin Clark.6 MR. NICHOLS: Colin.7 MR. CLARK: I believe we were on Item 5, and I 8stepped out, came back, and somehow got to 11(b). So 9will Bill not be able to speak?10 MR. NICHOLS: Go ahead.11 MR. CLARK: Okay. I'll speak on behalf of him 12for the Save Our Springs Alliance. We have an objection 13to Item 11(b). We feel that authorization to construct 14State Highway 45 South from 126 [sic] to 183 will create 15an interregional loop, a bypass of I-35. And the 16technical team of CAMPO recommended that they not start 17on Highway 45 South until State Highway 130 has been 18completed to prevent that problem.19 But also there are plans to bury I-35 through 20Central Austin, and we feel that if Highway 45 is 21completed before I-35 is rebuilt that we'll also create a22western loop, an interregional bypass. And what this 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 139 21will do is create tremendous development pressure in that2part of Austin, and that region has had a lot of growth. 3And the city of Austin and surrounding regions have been 4trying to protect the Barton Springs segment of the 5Edwards Aquifer. And we feel that this loop, if created,6will put pressure on more residential/commercial, more 7infrastructure development over the region that TNRCC has8found to be the most sensitive aquifer in the state of 9Texas to pollution.10 So we request that you deny this until both 11Highway 130 is completed and I-35 through Central Austin 12has been redone and completed. Thank you.13 MR. NICHOLS: Did you have any questions you 14wanted to ask him?15 MR. WILLIAMSON: You want me to go first?16 MR. NICHOLS: Sure.17 MR. WILLIAMSON: It's a comfortable 18relationship.19 MR. NICHOLS: Go ahead.20 MR. WILLIAMSON: I want to be sure I understand21your objection or the objection of your organization. If22we move forward with this proposal and then 45 or 60 or 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 140 21however many days from now approve it, we've in effect, 2in your view, laid the groundwork for a western bypass, 3when at some point down the road if there's ever enough 4money there will be an eastern bypass. And having an 5eastern bypass is more complementary to your viewpoint of6environmental protection than the western bypass.7 MR. CLARK: Correct.8 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.9 MR. NICHOLS: The -- I had received y'all's 10letter, which I think spelled out pretty much most of 11what you had said, but I appreciate you taking the time 12to be here today and get this on the record. But in the 13letter, I don't believe it ever said y'all were opposed 14to the project. But as CAMPO executive director was 15saying earlier, it was more of a matter of timing, 16wanting it to be completed after the 130 project.17 And it referred to a lowering of I-35?18 MR. CLARK: Correct.19 MR. NICHOLS: I was not even aware that we were20considering taking I-35 and lowering it. Is that 21something you're aware of? I've never heard of it. I've3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 141 21been on the commission four-and-a-half years. I know 2there's a lot of projects I've never heard of.3 MR. WILLIAMSON: You mean you haven't heard of 4Garbade's Gully?5 (General laughter.)6 MR. NICHOLS: Are you aware of that project?7 MR. BEHRENS: They have a study going on I-35, 8and there's various schemes that are being looked at, and9I myself haven't seen anything that lowers it, but there 10is a look at a rebuild one day.11 MR. NICHOLS: I wasn't aware of that.12 MR. CLARK: Okay. Well, our concern would be 13that even if we had the eastern bypass, that should I-35 14have serious construction which would basically block 15traffic through it, if we also have a western bypass, 16then, you know, we're still going to see tremendous 17traffic --18 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. In that letter, as I 19recall, it never said you opposed the project, but just 20the timing of the project. So, I mean, if you're -- this21is about as official record as you can get today. So if 22you're opposed to the project at all being built, now is 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 142 21the time to say it, but if you're not opposed to the 2project but just opposed to the timing of the project, 3that's more appropriate -- either appropriate -- 4whatever -- I'd just like you to clarify.5 MR. CLARK: Okay. Well, I'll state that at 6this time we request that the project not be approved 7until Highway 130 is built out and any reconstruction on 8I-35 which would push traffic onto a western bypass.9 MR. NICHOLS: So that it's a matter of timing. 10You are not opposed to the project, just the timing of 11the project.12 MR. CLARK: At this time, yes.13 MR. NICHOLS: Does that mean at a later time 14you may be opposed to the project?15 MR. CLARK: Perhaps.16 MR. NICHOLS: Okay.17 MR. CLARK: I'm speaking on behalf --18 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. I'm not trying to put words19in your mouth. I'm trying to understand.20 MR. CLARK: Okay. I mean --21 MR. NICHOLS: I mean, so often we have projects22where people --3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 143 21 MR. CLARK: -- projects change, and this -- 2maybe 130 --3 MR. NICHOLS: -- things --4 MR. CLARK: -- never happens, you know. At 5this time we request that you don't buy into this project.6 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. You did a good job. I 7appreciate you taking the time to be here.8 Did you have any more questions?9 MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm pretty impressed. Did a 10pretty good job.11 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. So thank you very much.12 MR. CLARK: Thank you.13 MR. NICHOLS: Is there anyone else here who 14wanted to speak on this issue who did not fill out a card?15 Yes, sir. Would you like to fill out a card?16 You want to try to give him a card? I want to 17make sure everybody has an opportunity to speak on this 18issue, that no one's denied an opportunity. So she's 19getting you a card, so while she fills it out, would you 20just state your name for the record?21 MR. COVINGTON: My name is Sid Covington, and I22was one of the members of the CAMPO special committee on 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 144 21the Loop 1 project, and I just wanted to clarify some of 2the things that Mr. Aulick had said and that 3Representative Krusee said about this.4 That, you know, I think the -- this whole issue5of the 45 North and the 45 South came to the forefront 6during this special committee that was formed in, what, 7August, I believe. And as part of that committee, we had8a set of experts that we hired and brought in from around9the country.10 One of the recommendations they made was to 11delay the completion of the southern portion of MoPac 12where it ties into 35, go ahead and complete the northern13part, what's called the Big T, but not create an east -- 14or a westbound loop around 35 until State Highway 130 was15done. So that was really a recommendation that's come up16fairly recently by this set of experts that we had 17brought in to study this.18 MR. NICHOLS: How long did that group of 19experts study this?20 MR. COVINGTON: They were actually involved in 21the process -- and I'm not exactly sure. Mike Aulick 22could give you a better answer than that. He had sent 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 145 21them a lot of information that they studied in advance. 2Then they actually were here in town for a week and met 3with stakeholders for a week. But they had an awful lot 4of information prior to that that they looked at before 5they made their recommendations.6 Essentially, following their recommendations, 7then the motion was brought up at the CAMPO meeting. As 8Representative Krusee said, the CAMPO Policy Advisory 9Committee did pass the motion. That's what they are 10going -- you know, planning now to implement into the 112025 plan, so the 2025 plan is modified to reflect that 12motion.13 This motion and this recommendation was also 14very heavily referenced, and I spoke and clarified it, to15the City of Austin city council meeting on October 25, I 16believe, when the city council voted to release Capital 17Metro funds to acquire right of way for the northern 18portion of the Big T, the northern extension of MoPac and19State Highway 45 on the north.20 So there's some concern -- and I talked to one 21of the council members yesterday -- there's some concern 22that if this --3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 146 21 MR. NICHOLS: You talking about the city 2council or --3 MR. COVINGTON: The city council.4 MR. NICHOLS: -- or CAMPO members?5 MR. COVINGTON: The city council.6 MR. NICHOLS: Okay.7 MR. COVINGTON: There's some concern by the 8city council now that if this agreement isn't upheld, 9since that's what was used as an argument for releasing 10that money to acquire that right of way, that could put 11that right of way acquisition in jeopardy.12 I did speak -- I did meet with Chairman Johnson13on October 17 and have kind of reviewed this with him and14have been trying to meet with Commissioner Williamson, 15and we haven't been able to work out schedules together. 16But we haven't -- this is not something that just kind of17changed for the sake of change. It's a very reasoned 18thought. It makes sense to a lot of people, and it 19represents, I think, you know, a very good solution to 20this.21 Again, I'm not opposed to this at all, and 22particularly since this looks like, you know, the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 147 21beginning to negotiate a development agreement. I think 2that should move ahead with the caveat that we do want to3pay -- or make sure that they pay attention to the timing4issue.5 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. You have any?6 MR. WILLIAMSON: No.7 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you very much. I 8appreciate the clarification.9 I've got another card that was filled out, and 10before I get into that speaker, if there anyone else who 11wants to fill out a card, now is the time.12 Gary Bradley?13 MR. WILLIAMSON: Who?14 MR. BRADLEY: Thank you, Commissioners. I just15wanted to clear up a couple of things that previous 16speakers had talked about. The first speaker that was 17representing the Save Our Springs Alliance, that 18organization also opposes Loop 130 or the 130 project. 19So if we follow their train of logic, we would never get 20to build this segment, because the others would never get21built either.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 148 21 In terms of the last speaker and this study 2group that was put together by CAMPO and the City of 3Austin, when he says it involved the stakeholders, I beg 4to differ. That study was styled as U.S. 183/Loop 1 5Study. SH 45 was not even on the heading. And not one 6of the communities or Hays County or Southeast Travis 7County -- none of the people that would be impacted by 8the project that's before you today were invited to 9participate in that one-week study. And so I just want 10to clear up those two things.11 In summary, though, I would really like to 12compliment the people that we've had an opportunity to 13work with in your organization: Phillip Russell, Bob 14Daigh, Jim Griffin. Been exemplary. There have been two15occasions where we've had a semi-crisis in terms of 16trying to meet deadlines in moving our project forward, 17and they've always been willing to step up and give us 18the time that we needed to accomplish our mission.19 And I want to thank you for your consideration,20and I certainly want to thank the staff for their help. 21Thank you.22 MR. NICHOLS: Yes, sir.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 149 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Mr. Monroe, are you on 2standby? Stop me if I wander into territory into which I3should not wander.4 I appreciated Representative Krusee coming 5before the commission a few minutes ago and expressing 6his interest in helping lead collective community-based, 7regional thinking about solving regional problems. As I 8consider my position on this proposal, I am extremely 9concerned that we not do any damage to the potential of a10Regional Mobility Authority involving at least Williamson11and Travis county and perhaps Hays and perhaps counties 12to the west and east.13 And since you are one of the parties with whom 14my department employees will be negotiating, I want to 15know -- if I can ask this question, Mr. Monroe -- and if 16I can, what your response is.17 Would you at any time have any intention of 18being an impediment to the formation of a Regional 19Mobility Authority which might require this road, if it 20were to be built, to be handed over the Authority -- 21without any monetary loss for anyone -- do you intend to 22be an impediment to that?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 150 21 MR. BRADLEY: I wouldn't want to speak for my 2partners, Zachry Corporation or HNTB, but I wouldn't see 3any objections to that, Commissioner. Our goal here was 4to simply get this road built, as you know.5 And I wouldn't think that -- part of the 6problem that we've had when you talk about regional 7mobility, it's an educational process, you know, because 8not all the members of this region are aware of all the 9regional problems. So we have a learning curve.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: But if that learning curve is 11met, Mr. Bradley, and if the good citizens of these 12counties decide that they want to collectively and 13cooperatively and regionally begin to solve some of their14regional transportation problems --15 MR. BRADLEY: Absolutely. If --16 MR. WILLIAMSON: -- then you don't intend this 17project to be an impediment to that.18 MR. BRADLEY: No, sir. It should be in support19of that, because if you're going to reduce congestion, 20and we now have the classification of being the most 21congested city of our size in the United States, then I 22think building roads is -- has to be a major part of that3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 151 21answer. And so that's what we're for: building roads 2and building them in this region and doing that as 3economically as we can for the taxpayer.4 So, no, I'm all for regional cooperation. It's5just that we need a very balanced representation in that 6regional planning, because there are limited resources. 7Everyone recognizes that. And for those resources to be 8used in a -- distributed in a fair and equal manner, then9you have to have a fair representation of stakeholders at10the table to do that.11 MR. WILLIAMSON: I think our rules will require12fair representation of everyone. That's --13 MR. BRADLEY: That's all we ask.14 MR. NICHOLS: All right. Thank you.15 MR. BRADLEY: Thank you.16 MR. NICHOLS: I'm going to give Bill Bunch 17another opportunity. You are here, as I understand it.18 MR. BUNCH: Yes.19 MR. NICHOLS: Sorry you were not here a little 20earlier, but we will make sure that you have that 21opportunity.22 MR. BUNCH: Thank you. I have a letter also.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 152 21 I'm Bill Bunch with the Save Our Springs 2Alliance, also a member of a recently created larger 3umbrella group looking at the MoPac corridor called the 4MoPac Boulevard Alliance. And I provided you a letter 5from them.6 We recently carried out a fairly in-depth 7public information request to the Turnpike Authority to 8try to get better information about this project, which 9we do oppose. And we hope that you will slow down and 10take a closer look at this.11 Part of the reasons for that concern are both 12the threats to the Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer, which 13the state has recognized as more vulnerable to pollution 14than any other aquifer in Texas.15 The other concern is converting MoPac from what16is basically a local commuter highway into a major 17interregional bypass for I-35. And we don't think that 18goes away just by slowing down and waiting for 130 to be 19built, because there are other proposals to improve I-35 20through downtown. That'll be a huge, very extended 21construction project. And if you have a very quick 22bypass over to MoPac open up during that time, I think 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 153 21you have very serious impacts on neighborhoods and 2commuters in the whole MoPac-183 corridor.3 The toll projections, the revenue projections 4that have been made so far, heavily dependent on very 5intensive growth over the Barton Springs Edwards Aquifer.6And we've seen that actually the reverse has been 7happening, where developers are selling out for preserver8lands so that these projections are really being scaled 9back.10 Also, an important historic point here. Mr. 11Bradley came to this commission, previous version of this12commission, for the MoPac South extension, and just as 13here, promised to donate all the right of way. That 14right of way was not donated, and in fact, Travis County 15and the taxpayers had to step in and deliver right of way16that had been promised to the state and to the local 17community. So there's a track record here where it's 18very important to pay attention to what promises are 19being made for revenue streams and for right of way on 20the financial side.21 You probably know that the City of Austin did 22vote to remove this piece of -- or at least a part of the3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 154 21project from 1626 to 35 from the local transportation 2plan. And that was a unanimous vote, so there's a very 3strong community opposition to this project.4 And with that, I appreciate your time and 5allowing me to come up and speak after my turn.6 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you very much.7 Do you have any more comments before we get 8into our questions for Phil?9 MR. WILLIAMSON: I have some questions for Phil.10 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Now will be a good time.11 MR. WILLIAMSON: I don't know Mr. Bradley very 12well. I'm -- I happen to believe that all men and women 13are men and women of their words when they give it, be in14Mr. Bunch or Mr. Bradley or Mr. Russell. All that being 15said, you're going to begin to negotiate, I assume, if we16pass this.17 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.18 MR. WILLIAMSON: Watch me, please, Mr. Monroe.19 It is this commissioner's wish that its agency 20employees at no time allow anyone to lay an impediment or21a roadblock to the formation of a Regional Mobility 22Authority. Please bear that in mind when you are 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 155 21visiting, if you're allowed to visit -- and we don't 2[indiscernible] -- because it's my belief, and I say this3with -- I don't know Mr. Covington either, but I say this4with respect, sir, and with respect to you and your 5position on clean water.6 The reality is the state has wrestled for years7with how to properly support the Travis County/Central 8Texas growth in an environmentally sensitive and 9commercially logical way. I must say that despite our 10best efforts, we probably have not been part of a 11successful story and that success will only occur when 12the region develops its own governing body and has to 13face itself on how to solve these problems and leave us 14pretty much out of it to rely on how to get people from 15Austin to San Antonio or from Austin to Houston.16 And accordingly, I don't want us to do anything17that interrupts the ability for men and women to be 18responsible for solving their own regional problems. 19Please bear that in mind.20 That's all I have to say.21 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. I had a comment or a 22question. Okay. A number from the CAMPO concern of the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 156 21timing of 130 and from the original letter from Save Our 2Springs on the timing for like the 35 and the 130, this --3the MoPac Boulevard I just got today -- but as I 4understand it, on the 130 project and the north T, we 5have gone out officially requesting proposals?6 MR. RUSSELL: On the 130 project, we have gone 7out for proposals. We expect those back in first part of8next year.9 MR. NICHOLS: We have received our record of 10decision and all those kind of things?11 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir, on 130.12 MR. NICHOLS: And on 130, which is a timing 13issue for CAMPO. That, as I understand it, has been 14developing quite rapidly as far as a project.15 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.16 MR. NICHOLS: And that the tie-ins on the north17end -- in other words, the revenue studies, as I 18understand it, have been underway for a number of -- 19period of time.20 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.21 MR. NICHOLS: A lot of people have spent a lot 22of money, both the department and some of these entities,3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 157 21in the development of that thing and probably 2anticipation of letting something actually go out early 3next year?4 MR. RUSSELL: Yes, sir.5 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. And then on this project, 6if we wait until -- so we're moving forward on 130 as 7rapidly as we know how.8 MR. RUSSELL: That is correct.9 MR. NICHOLS: I don't know of any way to go any10faster. And there's a pretty strong commitment, I 11believe, from the previous TTA board, as well as the 12commission, that if the numbers all fit and the volumes 13fit and the environmental fits, that we were going to try14to move forward on that thing as rapidly as we can.15 This project also becomes a critical link. If 16we wait until the 130 is complete before we even begin 17this process, that we will have years of delay of this 18process, plus lose the revenue studies, the environmental19studies all have to be updated again. Is that correct?20 MR. RUSSELL: That is correct. And on the 45 21proposed project, the eastern side of that will have to 22go through fairly arduous environmental studies.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 158 21 MR. NICHOLS: Which we've already done.2 MR. RUSSELL: No, sir. On 45 South, the 3proposed project, on the piece between 35 and 183, 4there'll have to be significant environmental studies on 5that piece.6 MR. WILLIAMSON: You mean it's not something --7that part hasn't already been done by the private sector 8entity or us already?9 MR. RUSSELL: No, sir. There is no 10environmental clearance on --11 MR. WILLIAMSON: So how long would that take?12 MR. RUSSELL: It should take a while. There'll13be a lot of coordination activities --14 MR. WILLIAMSON: A month, six months, a year?15 MR. RUSSELL: Probably more than a year.16 MR. NICHOLS: So even though we approve the 17development of an agreement, we could not actually start 18construction until that environmental study is complete.19 MR. RUSSELL: That's correct.20 MR. NICHOLS: Okay.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh, well, that -- that's a lot22of time.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 159 21 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Yes. So the timing of the2completion of these things is kind of what my point is. 3We're -- we are moving rapidly and as fast as I know to 4move on 130. It is a reality.5 MR. RUSSELL: We're moving as quickly as we can6on 130, and if we're given the go-ahead to move forward 7on this project, it would allow us to sit down and start 8talking with various environmental issues that are out 9there on 45 South. This would give us the ability to 10start that.11 MR. NICHOLS: If there's a timing, it's -- it 12may not be too far different.13 MR. RUSSELL: No, sir.14 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. Thank you very much.15 Do I hear a motion?16 MR. WILLIAMSON: I move we accept or approve 17Item 11(b).18 MR. NICHOLS: I second. All in favor, say aye?19 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.20 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.21 MR. RUSSELL: Thank you.22 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 160 21 Thank all of you for being here.2 MR. BEHRENS: We'll move back to Item 7, Public3Transportation, and we have two items. Margot Massey 4will present these, please.5 MS. MASSEY: Now for something completely 6different, Item 7(a). We had asked you in August of this7year to approve $30,000 to do the 2002 Public 8Transportation Conference. And we erred in that by not 9consulting as closely as we should have with our industry10partners, namely the Texas Transit Association, and we're11probably mistaken in thinking that because it was in 12Lubbock it was somehow -- we would get that West Texas 13rate. And that's not the case.14 The conference costs what it costs, 15irregardless of the location. So we are coming back to 16you today somewhat hat in hand and asking that you 17approve an additional 20,000 to up the contribution to a 18reasonable level. The conference costs approximately 19$150,000 a year to put on. It is a rather large 20undertaking, and I recommend this as the appropriate 21level for TxDOT participation.22 MR. NICHOLS: Comments?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 161 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: What good comes of it to us?2 MS. MASSEY: It gives us an opportunity to 3discuss a lot of important issues, for example, 4anticipating maybe one of your other questions, sir, 5there will be an entire track in the conference 6discussing alternative fuels.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: Oh.8 MS. MASSEY: Funding and technology and --9 MR. WILLIAMSON: Perhaps you can amend that to 10include also how transit interrelates with Regional 11Mobility Authorities.12 MS. MASSEY: Yes. Yes. I'm sure that will 13find its way onto the agenda.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: Do you seek a motion?15 MR. NICHOLS: Oh. Do you have anything else? 16If you would like --17 MR. WILLIAMSON: I so move.18 MR. NICHOLS: All right. I'm going to second 19that, but I would like to make a comment before we vote. 20The -- at one time, we -- and it's not the conference; 21it's the expenditure related to the conference. At one 22time, we did all this work internally.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 162 21 MS. MASSEY: Yes, sir. We did that for 25 2years.3 MR. NICHOLS: And then the Transit Authority, 4as I understand, the association wanted to do it.5 MS. MASSEY: Actually, sir, to be technically 6correct on that, that recommendation came from your 7public transportation advisory committee, which we 8recognized as --9 MR. NICHOLS: And then so we began -- as 10opposed to doing the work of reservations and passing out11badges and calling speakers, we began paying a consultant12or somebody --13 MS. MASSEY: Right.14 MR. NICHOLS: -- to represent the association 15to do that work for us.16 MS. MASSEY: That's correct.17 MR. NICHOLS: And that number, dollar figure, 18just continues to climb. So we had approved 30,000, and 19now we're requesting an additional 20,000.20 MS. MASSEY: Actually, sir, we -- you had 21approved 50,000 in the two prior years, and this amount 22is certainly comparable to what the department spent. I 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 163 21have a staff person who spent most of her time doing 2these kinds of conference planning and arranging things, 3and it is staggering, the amount of work. Plus we had 4the mail costs, which are now being absorbed by another 5entity, but we incurred the same amount of costs when we 6did the conference ourselves.7 MR. NICHOLS: I -- we have a motion and a 8second. Is that correct?9 MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes.10 MR. NICHOLS: I'm just -- would like to say 11that it -- surely, between the association and all those 12people out there, we could ask, request that some of 13those association members divide up some of this work and14possibly save the state of Texas some of that money and 15then put it back into transit as opposed to paying 16somebody to conduct a hearing.17 There's a lot of people that do a lot of work 18in these associations, if we just ask and then coordinate19it. So that's my only comment.20 So a motion and second. All in favor, say aye.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.22 MR. NICHOLS: Aye.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 164 21 Thank you very much.2 MS. MASSEY: Thank you.3 The second item is asking for the award of 4$39,500 in toll credits to be used as match for the City 5of Victoria through Golden Crescent Regional Planning 6Commission. Yes, these will be alternatively fueled 7vehicles.8 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.9 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.11 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.12 MR. WILLIAMSON: And a tip of the hat to the 13City of Victoria.14 MR. BEHRENS: Go to Item 8, our Administrative 15Rules, both the rules under proposed adoption will be 16deferred, so we'll go to the rules under Item 8(b). 17Number (1) is Finance. And these are rules for final 18adoption. Thomas Doebner.19 MR. DOEBNER: Good morning. My name is Thomas 20Doebner. It's good afternoon. I'm sorry. My name is 21Thomas Doebner with the department's Finance Division.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 165 21 This minute order is for the final adoption of 2rules to allow the department to collect $25 for the 3processing of a return or a dishonored check. And 4these -- we did not receive any public comments during 5the open comment period; and, therefore, we recommend 6adoption.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: I want to know if you have 8anything to report to us on changes in the TxDOT family?9 MR. DOEBNER: There was a baby girl born last --10yesterday afternoon about five o'clock.11 MR. WILLIAMSON: Did they name her Jimmette?12 MR. DOEBNER: I have not heard the name yet.13 MR. WILLIAMSON: Or Jamette?14 So move.15 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor, say aye.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.17 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.18 MR. BEHRENS: Item 8(b)(2), rules on Chapter 9,19Contract Management.20 MS. SOLDANO: Good afternoon. I'm Jennifer 21Soldano, director of the Contract Services Office.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 166 21 This minute order adopts new Section 9.9 2concerning interlocal contracts. House Bill 1831 added 3new Section 201.209 to the Transportation Code, which was4effective September 1. This statute authorizes the 5department to enter into interlocal contracts with one or6more local governments.7 These rules were proposed in August and 8published in the Texas Register on September 14. No 9comments were received, and we recommend adoption.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.11 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.13 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.14 MS. SOLDANO: Thank you.15 MR. BEHRENS: Item 8(b)(3), VTR rules on 16Chapter 17.17 MR. DIKE: Commission members, I'm Jerry Dike, 18director of Vehicle Titles and Registration Division.19 We have a minute order here adopting the 20amendments to Rules 17.24 and 17.28 concerning disabled 21person license plates. It also sets a $30 fee for the 22YMCA plate, and it allows podiatrists to sign disabled 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 167 21applications for foot disorders. These rules support 2three bills from the past legislative session, House Bill315, 1831, and Senate Bill 777.4 The commission passed these to be published in 5the Texas Register August 30. They were proposed, and no6public comments were received. We recommend adoption.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.8 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?9 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.10 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.11 MR. DIKE: Thank you.12 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.13 MR. BEHRENS: Item 8(b)(4) under Chapter 25, 14Traffic Operation. Mary Lou.15 MS. RALLS: Thank you. Good afternoon. I'm 16Mary Lou Ralls, director of the Bridge Division.17 The minute order before you is for final 18adoption of rules pertaining to Transportation Code 19621.301 regarding the policies and procedures governing 20department concurrence with a county's proposed load 21limit for a county road or bridge. Department 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 168 21concurrence will help ensure uniform load limits for all 2public roads and bridges.3 These rules were posted as required in the 4Texas Register. We received no comments. Staff 5recommends your approval.6 MR. NICHOLS: As I understand it, this will be 7the final step in the trucks that are too heavy for a 8bridge is now -- it will now be illegal for them to drive9on it -- is that correct? -- unless there's no other way 10to get there.11 MS. RALLS: That's correct.12 MR. WILLIAMSON: And if there's no other way, 13they have to get a permit?14 MR. NICHOLS: No.15 MS. RALLS: No. 2060.16 MR. NICHOLS: But it covers 99-point-something 17percent of all the situations. This is pretty close.18 MR. WILLIAMSON: This was your baby, wasn't it?19 MR. NICHOLS: It was all of their baby. I 20think it was the whole department's baby. I think I'm 21the one that is shoved up there in front of them.22 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, then I so move.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 169 21 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?2 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.3 MR. NICHOLS: Aye.4 MS. RALLS: Thank you.5 MR. BEHRENS: Item 8(b)(4)(b), Safe Routes to 6School.7 MR. LOPEZ: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My 8name is Carlos Lopez. I'm director of the Traffic 9Operations Division.10 The minute order before you addresses final 11adoption of the initial set of rules to establish the 12Safe Routes to School Program as required by House Bill 132204 of the last legislative session. The goal of this 14program is to improve bicycle and pedestrian safety 15around school areas.16 House Bill 2204 also makes Safe Routes projects17eligible for Federal Hazard Elimination Program 18construction funds, although the bill does not dedicate 19any specific funding amount for these projects.20 We received public comment from five 21individuals during the development of this phase of the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 170 21program rules. We have responded to each issue raised by2the commenters and accommodated them whenever possible.3 The department is developing rules in two steps4for this bill. The first step, as contained in this 5minute order, describes eligible product types and the 6applications to the middle process.7 The second round of rulemaking will focus on 8the factors the department will use to evaluate Safe 9Routes to Schools projects applications. We recommend 10approval of this minute order.11 MR. NICHOLS: I had a -- did you have a 12question?13 MR. WILLIAMSON: No.14 MR. NICHOLS: I had a question. One is a 15comment, and one is a question. On the comment side, 16congratulations. I think it's going to be a good thing. 17As I understand it, a lot of these projects probably will18qualify, as we get into the transportation enhancement.19 MR. LOPEZ: Yes.20 MR. NICHOLS: So that's going to be great. So 21the kids can get to school on their bicycles in a more 22safe manner. So I think that's outstanding.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 171 21 Number two, the people who sent in their 2comments or had comments in public hearings for which you3have addressed -- and I've read all the responses -- do 4we automatically send a copy of that response to the 5people who made the comment?6 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. In fact, we sent a copy of 7the draft minute order to them earlier this week to let 8them know how we were going to respond.9 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. So each one of those 10commenters does get a response back.11 MR. LOPEZ: Yes. That's right.12 MR. NICHOLS: That answers my question.13 Motion?14 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.15 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?16 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.17 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.18 MR. BEHRENS: Item 8(b)(5), Amendments to 19Oversize and Overweight Vehicle and Loads rules.20 MR. CHAMBERLAIN: Commissioners, for the 21record, my name is Monty Chamberlain, and I'm the 22business services manager for the Motor Carrier Division.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 172 21 The minute order before you is for final 2adoption of amendments to Title 43, Texas Administrative 3Code, Chapter 28, subchapters (b) and (c) concerning 4permits for oversize/overweight vehicles and loads. As 5you're aware, the amendments were proposed at the August 630 commission meeting, and the rules were subsequently 7published in the September 14 issue of the Texas Register.8 The department did receive four written 9comments, and a public hearing was held on October 23 of 10this year, in which the department received four verbal 11comments. All the comments received have been addressed 12in the adoption preamble. Any changes made to the final 13rules are also explained in the preamble, which will be 14published in the Texas Register upon your final adoption.15 At this time, we're submitting the final 16adoption minute order for your consideration and 17recommend its approval.18 MR. NICHOLS: Question or motion?19 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.20 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor, say aye.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.22 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Thank you.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 173 21 MR. BEHRENS: Item 9, Transportation Planning. 2There's two sections to that. Jim Randall will handle it.3 MR. RANDALL: Jim Randall, Transportation 4Planning and Programming Division.5 Item 9(a), we bring you the first quarter 6program for disadvantaged counties to adjust matching 7fund requirements. In your books is Exhibit A that lists8the projects, and staff's recommended adjustments for 9each of them.10 The adjustments are based on the equations 11approved in earlier proposals. There are seven projects 12in three counties. The reduction in participation for 13these projects is $187,014. We recommend approval of 14this minute order.15 MR. WILLIAMSON: So moved.16 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor?17 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.18 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.19 MR. RANDALL: Item 9(b). This minute order 20authorizes the executive director or designee to enter 21into a funding agreement with the Northeast Texas Rural 22Transportation District to provide no more than $300,000 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 174 21in state funds for the acquisition of approximately 25 2miles of railroad right of way in Collin and Hunt 3counties.4 Rider 62 to the department's appropriations for5fiscal years 2002-2003 requires the department to 6allocate 300,000 for the purchase of abandoned railroad 7right of way within and joining NETEX. NETEX intends to 8enter into an agreement to purchase the right of way from9the current owner and is seeking the appropriated funds 10to facilitate the purchase of the railroad corridor. 11This minute order provides that as a condition of 12receiving these funds, NETEX shall agree to convey to 13the department a 300,000 security interest in the right 14of way including a first right of refusal to purchase the15property for $300,000.16 The proposed acquisition of the abandoned rail 17corridor could help preserve the right of way for future 18rail-freight shipments and for future light-rail 19transportation from Greenville into the urban areas of 20Dallas and Fort Worth, thus providing an economic, 21environmental, and transportation benefit to the people 22of Texas. We recommend approval of this minute order.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 175 21 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.2 Questions?3 MR. WILLIAMSON: No questions.4 MR. NICHOLS: Motion?5 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.6 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor, say aye.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.8 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Thank you.9 MR. BEHRENS: Item 10, the State Infrastructure10Bank loan, Thomas Doebner.11 MR. DOEBNER: Again, my name is Thomas Doebner 12with the department's Finance Division. This minute 13order is for preliminary approval of a request from the 14City of Leander to borrow $7.9 million from the State 15Infrastructure Bank.16 They have not requested any specific terms at 17this time. Our rule of thumb would show about a 12-year 18term. They have a BBB bond rating, and yesterday their 19market rate would have been about 4.83 percent if they 20were going to sell bonds on the market. They are not 21part of an economically disadvantaged county, and they're22not part of a border district high-priority trade route, 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 176 21so our negotiations with them will be close to market 2rate. We recommend approval.3 MR. NICHOLS: I have a question.4 Do you have a question?5 Question: It's not on this application. I 6support the application, but the question is, when we set7up the SIB rules in the first place, the process, 8originally we had a one-step process, I believe, or was 9it a two-step process?10 MR. DOEBNER: There's a two-step process if 11it's over a certain amount, and I believe it's 250,000.12 MR. NICHOLS: Two-step process on everything, 13and then later we came back and said if it's under 14300,000, so we could make it into a one-step process.15 MR. DOEBNER: That's correct.16 MR. NICHOLS: So it was a two-step to start 17with, and a one-step on smaller ones.18 MR. DOEBNER: I'm not sure that it was ever 19two-step for the small ones, but I am not positive of 20that.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 177 21 MR. NICHOLS: It was either two-step for both 2or one-step for both. We made a correction along the 3way. I do recall that.4 MR. DOEBNER: Then it must have been a two-step5for both then.6 MR. NICHOLS: This is not law; this is internal7procedures. Now that we've used this for a while, you 8know, I'm anxious, just like everybody else, to, when we 9know we've got a good project, try to minimize and shave 10time off.11 Do you still feel like we need a two-step 12process on those figures above 300,000?13 MR. DOEBNER: In some cases, yes. The entity 14that is borrowing the money wants an indication -- before15they go out and change tax rates or before they get their16counsel to take some action that would cost them money, 17they want an indication from us that y'all are probably 18going to approve it. And that's what they get from 19preliminary approval.20 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. So y'all don't feel like 21that we're delaying any projects or holding up because of22the two-step process?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 178 21 MR. DOEBNER: No.2 MR. NICHOLS: If we start seeing situations 3like that, let us know, because that is an internal 4process; it could be sped up.5 All right. Motion?6 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.7 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor, say aye.8 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.9 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.10 MR. BEHRENS: We have covered Item 11. We go 11to Item 12, Contracts. Thomas.12 MR. BOHUSLAV: Good afternoon, Commissioners. 13My name is Thomas Bohuslav. I'm director of the 14Construction Division.15 Item 12(a)(1) is for consideration of the award16or rejection of highway maintenance contracts let on 17November 6 and 7, 2001, whose engineer's estimated costs 18are $300,000 or more. We had 13 projects we let.19 We have one project we recommend for rejection 20in Tom Green County. It's project number 4007. We had 21four bidders. It was a crack sealing contract. On this 22project, we had advertised it, and the proposal required 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 179 21that the contractors be prequalified, that they submit an2audited financial statement to be able to bid the job.3 After release of the proposal and after 4advertising, we changed the system to allow contractors 5who were not prequalified, that were basically bidders --6questionnaire contractors, to submit bids to solicit bids7for the job.8 We'd like to recommend that we reject this 9project because there may be other bidders out there that10would have bid if they saw that it was not a 11[indiscernible] project. And we'd like to solicit more 12bids, and we felt there could be some harm to the 13contractors that did submit bids that were prequalified 14to fill out acceptance of all projects here.15 Staff recommends approval, with the exception 16noted.17 MR. NICHOLS: Question.18 MR. WILLIAMSON: None from me.19 MR. NICHOLS: Motion?20 MR. WILLIAMSON: I move.21 MR. NICHOLS: I second. All in favor, say aye.22 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 180 21 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.2 MR. BOHUSLAV: Item 12(a)(2) is for 3consideration of award or rejection of highway 4construction contracts let on November 6 and 7, 2001. We5had 31 projects, and we have one project we recommend for6rejection. The project is in Bowie County.7 It's project number 3022. We had one bidder; 8it was 26 percent over. We had a problem with a base 9item on the project. We identified the wrong type of 10description code for it, and we'd like to go back and 11make that correction and also solicit more bids so we 12have more competition on the project.13 Staff recommends approval with the exception 14noted -- award of all projects with the exception noted.15 Any questions?16 MR. NICHOLS: Motion or questions?17 MR. WILLIAMSON: So move.18 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor, say aye.19 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.20 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.21 MR. BEHRENS: Item 12(b), which is Contract 22Claim, Amadeo Saenz.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 181 21 MR. SAENZ: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For2the record, I'm Amadeo Saenz, assistant executive 3director Engineering Operations and also chair of the 4TxDOT Claims Committee.5 The minute order before you basically approves 6a claim settlement for a contract by Taylor Mowing 7Service, project RMC 603351-001, Upshur County. On 8October 3, the Contract Claim Committee -- the TxDOT 9Claim Committee considered this claim and made a 10recommendation for settlement to the contractor. The 11contractor did not respond to the committee's offer 12within the specified 20-day time period; therefore, the 13committee's recommendation is considered final, and the 14contractor is barred from any future appeal.15 The committee considers this to be a fair and 16reasonable settlement offer and recommends your approval.17 MR. NICHOLS: Question?18 MR. WILLIAMSON: I'm comfortable about these 19things. So move.20 MR. NICHOLS: I got a motion. I'll second it. 21Before we vote, I want to say it's good to see you at the22podium in your new position.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 182 21 MR. SAENZ: Thank you.2 MR. NICHOLS: That's the first time -- I 3believe it's the first time you've been up to the podium 4in your new position. Is that correct?5 MR. SAENZ: It is, today.6 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. And Mike had given me some 7trick questions to ask you.8 (General laughter.)9 MR. NICHOLS: And I was looking around for them10here, so I couldn't really find them. So I'm going to 11use them the next time. So be prepared the next time.12 MR. SAENZ: Okay.13 MR. NICHOLS: With that, all in favor, say aye.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.15 MR. NICHOLS: Aye.16 MR. SAENZ: Thank you.17 MR. NICHOLS: Motion carries.18 MR. BEHRENS: Okay. Item 13, Routine Minute 19Orders. Those are listed as posted in the agenda. We 20would recommend approval of those minute orders. If you 21have any one that you would like to have discussed, we 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 183 21can do that; otherwise, we would recommend approval of 2the routine minute orders.3 MR. NICHOLS: Do we have any commenters on it 4or any other -- okay.5 Do you have any question on any of these?6 MR. WILLIAMSON: No questions, and I so move.7 MR. NICHOLS: I'll second. All in favor, say 8aye.9 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.10 MR. NICHOLS: Aye. Motion carries.11 MR. BEHRENS: I don't think there's any need 12for an executive session. And we have two people signed 13up for open comment.14 MR. NICHOLS: Open comment. One's yellow, and 15one's blue. I thought the yellow was on the agenda. 16Okay. Open comment. Winifred Kelsey, executive 17director, Scenic Austin. Welcome.18 MS. KELSEY: Thank you. Good afternoon, 19Commissioners. My name is Winifred Kelsey, and I'm here 20today representing Scenic Texas. I'd like to speak to 21you about the interim study to reevaluate Texas becoming 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 184 21the 49th state to participate in the National Scenic 2Byways Program.3 The last evaluation took place in the early 41990s during the ISTEA era. As you know, some of the 5rules changed when, in its next life, ISTEA became TEA-621. One significant modification for assessing whether 7Texas should participate in the Byways Program has to do 8with donor states. In the original version, it didn't 9make sense for a donor state to participate. However, 10with the advent of TEA-21, that is no longer the case.11 Texas and Montana are now the only states that 12have not elected to be eligible for federal funding that 13is available to implement corridor management plans. 14Granted, the allotted funds to do not represent a 15substantial amount of money, but the awards can provide 16rural communities in which we so often find our most 17scenic roads and vistas with enhancement tools otherwise 18unavailable to them.19 Another concern expressed in the original study20was that the federal government would compromise or even 21withhold a state's entire transportation package if a 22corridor management plan was not implemented correctly. 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 185 21In the history of the program this has never happened. 2Those administering the National Scenic Byways Program 3have assured me that TEA-21's funds linked to the program4are unrelated to the general transportation budget.5 There's been a misconception perpetrated that a6corridor management plan is irrevocably thrust onto a 7community without local consideration. This is simply 8not the case. Corridor management plans are developed 9and implemented on the local level. The Scenic Byways 10Program is voluntary, and nothing happens unless a local 11community wants to seek Byway status. The only input 12that the federal government has is when a locally 13developed plan is submitted for federal review and is 14either approved or denied.15 Because these guidelines are clearly delineated16and projects size are small, departments of 17transportation have not been burdened by this program. 18Indeed, the rest of the country has discovered the wisdom19of participation. Rural communities, almost without 20exception, are looking for economic development tools. 21The tourism generated by appearing on the National Scenic3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 186 21Byways map can be a measurable boon not only to the 2community but also to the state.3 Tourists must travel to their destinations, and4very often they do so by car. No doubt about it, in 5Texas that can mean a long way on our impressive highway 6system.7 You may be asking yourself, Well, what's the 8problem here? And I have to tell you, I'm stumped by our9elective. The only stipulation for becoming a National 10Scenic Byway is that once a Byway is designated, you 11can't build any new billboards on that strip of road. 12Not a single billboard comes down.13 In a recent scientific study conducted by 14social scientist Dr. Stephen Klineburg [phonetic], 80 15percent of Texans indicated that when it comes to 16billboards, Texas has enough, and we don't need any more.17 The second charge that the TxDOT committee 18appointed by the legislature is to evaluate Texas 19landscaping laws. In the same survey, Texans revealed 20that they want their roads better landscaped. There are 21those who would like to clear-cut vegetation that 22obscures the visibility of billboards from any angle.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 187 21 Our major metropolitan areas across the state 2are demanding that the view from the roadway be visually 3improved. These cities are implementing comprehensive, 4low-maintenance landscaping plans such as Houston's Green5Ribbon Project. And these changes that have been put 6forward by the outdoor advertising groups would 7eviscerate these beautification efforts.8 Texas is a magnificent place, and part of our 9responsibility is to leave it in better shape than we 10found it. While that obligates us to growth and 11development, we must be ever mindful that preserving and 12enhancing Texas' natural beauty must be an essential part13of this mission. Scenic Texas is ready and willing to 14assist TxDOT in its assessment of Scenic Byways in our 15state's landscaping practices.16 Thank you for this opportunity to address you.17 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.18 MR. WILLIAMSON: I do have a question for you.19 MS. KELSEY: Okay.20 MR. WILLIAMSON: You said that if that 21happened, we couldn't put any more billboards up on our 22route that had been recognized as such?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 188 21 MS. KELSEY: Yes. On a road that's been 2designated as a Scenic Byway, the only stipulation is 3that no new billboards can be erected. They don't take 4any down, but --5 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. How would that affect 6flowers planted on the right of way that advertise the 7logos of companies?8 MS. KELSEY: Flowers planted? Do flowers 9advertise --10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, let's say that, for 11example, Nike came to us and said, We'll pay Fund 6, the 12concrete fund, $100,000 a month if you'll let us plant 13flowers along this bank in Houston that's our swoosh 14sign, and we'll maintain it; we'll water it. It'd be a 15white background and a red check.16 MS. KELSEY: From the pictures I've seen from 17other states where they have gotten private donations to 18help with these initiatives, part of it goes into actual 19signage, and so it's -- and some of that is like an Adopt20a Highway sign, and all those can be included into this 21program.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 189 21 MR. WILLIAMSON: But you don't know 2specifically if that would prohibit us from letting 3somebody plant flowers to advertise their logo.4 MS. KELSEY: I know specifically in other 5states they've been able to do it, and so I --6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay.7 MS. KELSEY: -- but I don't know exactly, but 8I've seen it in other states, so I assume it would be --9 MR. WILLIAMSON: We're not going to action on 10this, are we?11 MR. NICHOLS: Cannot take action.12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Nice to see you.13 MS. KELSEY: Thank you.14 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.15 We have one additional card for the mayor of 16Corsicana, April Sikes, but I think I see the whole 17Corsicana delegation back there. I'd encourage y'all all18to --19 MAYOR SIKES: I don't know whether that's to 20protect me or y'all.21 MR. NICHOLS: Greetings. I live down the 22street from y'all in East Texas.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 190 21 MAYOR SIKES: Great.2 MR. NICHOLS: Jacksonville. Yes. We play 3y'all in football, basketball, and everything else.4 MAYOR SIKES: I think I should say before I 5start that I'm all for the RMAs and alternative fuels.6 MR. WILLIAMSON: Thank you.7 (General laughter.)8 MAYOR SIKES: All right. Let me say good 9afternoon. I am April Sikes. I'm the mayor of 10Corsicana, and I want to introduce a few people who are 11with me today. We have Truitt Gilbreath, who is our city12manager; Connie Standridge, our engineer; and Daryl 13Schliem, who is the director of our chamber of commerce; 14and Billy McManus, who is our Navarro County commissioner15for Precinct 2.16 With that said, I am the proud mayor of 17Corsicana, which is located, as you know, about 60 miles 18south of Dallas. I'm certainly proud to be here, and I'm19certainly not too proud to beg, plead, and make promises 20with regards to our frontage road project. I have, 21however, promised the others in the group who know that 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 191 21I'm also not to proud to cry that I would not do that 2while I beg, plead, and promise.3 It is an overwhelming responsibility to me to 4stand before you and ask for your help on behalf of the 5citizens of Corsicana and the citizens in Navarro County.6You are familiar, I know, with our frontage road project,7and in your packets, there's a letter that I have 8submitted that outlines the history of that project.9 We have been told that now our package is in 10your hands, and the ultimate decision about that frontage11road will be yours. So my real purpose today in visiting12with you is to express our concern for the future of our 13project.14 The city, county, school, our whole community, 15in fact, began a process about three years ago to enhance16the quality of life for our citizens, and our 17correspondence to you will reflect a written request to 18TxDOT in July of 1999 for construction of frontage roads.19 From this request, we were told that frontage 20roads could be built using our local funds. The 21community group then identified an underutilized tract of22land which is along I-45 and 287 intersection. That land3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 192 21showed the greatest economic potential that we had in our2county.3 This property was purchased for the development4of a business park using favorable provisions of our 5economic development laws obviously designed to promote 6business in Texas. A bond issue was then passed to fund 7construction. A tax increment financing district was 8formed. A reinvestment zone and an enterprise zone were 9established. And for those of you on the commission, you10know how hard that is to get those things done, and with 11unanimous votes, I'd like to add.12 Then our project plan was developed with 13potential investors, and in May of 2001 an agreement was 14signed for a $20 million development with the 15expectations that over $100 million would be invested by 16these developers within the next ten years.17 Having lived in Corsicana all my life, I can 18assure you that $100 million deals don't come often. In 19fact, this is our first one, and it's obviously, to us, 20an opportunity of a lifetime.21 When these developers first surfaced, I didn't 22believe they were real people who were coming and willing3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 193 21to spend this kind of money in our community, but they 2are. And in your packet, you'll find a letter from one 3of those men, by the name of Thomas Schrody [phonetic].4 Our agreement with these developers required 5that the city would facilitate the construction of the 6frontage road, and we believed in good faith that the 7frontage road would be constructed when we made that 8agreement. We now have until December 18 to fulfill our 9obligations under this agreement, and frankly, our time 10is running out.11 I will do anything you ask of me to assure that12this road is built. Regardless of what the others think,13I'll start bawling if I have to, because this development14is like none other that Corsicana has ever seen, and we 15have the money to build the road. We have the developers16who are ready to start the project tomorrow. The only 17thing left to secure this future which is extremely 18promising to our town and to our county -- the only thing19left is for you to allow us to build this road.20 I wondered how many times I could say "please" 21in three minutes, but I would just say, please, say yes. 22I urge you all to search your hearts and to find a way to3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 194 21allow this to happen. It will forever change the lives 2of the citizens of Corsicana and all of the citizens of 3Navarro County. And in exchange, I can assure you that 4all of us will be forever grateful to you for having done5that.6 And with that said, I'm going to thank you for 7the opportunity to speak to you.8 MR. NICHOLS: All right. Thank you very much. 9Obviously, we're in the process of changing frontage 10roads policies, and the access rights on -- particularly 11on the interstate eventually end up being approved by the12commission, and those had not been approved at this point.13 I was not aware until you spoke that you had a 14December 18 deadline.15 MAYOR SIKES: And we just fairly recently were 16basically presented with that deadline. I think our 17developers had heard --18 MR. WILLIAMSON: Who presented that to you?19 MR. SCHLIEM: The deadline --20 MR. WILLIAMSON: The developer?3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 195 21 MR. SCHLIEM: Yes. The developer -- when we 2had them in, we've had ongoing negotiations with them, 3and I think you'll see the master plan that is in --4 MR. NICHOLS: Well, I mean, when you get a 5package, you don't have a time to have a conversation, 6listen, and read at the same time. But we will go 7through this.8 MAYOR SIKES: Sure. And you'll see in there, 9but the bottom line is, we've said to these men, Just 10trust us and bear with us, and they have done that. But 11now they're kind of getting tired, and they want some 12sort of answer as far as the road goes.13 MR. NICHOLS: I think you've made a very good 14awareness of the problem and the situation and the 15importance of it and the timing element. I appreciate 16you coming up today. Very important. We cannot take 17action today, as you know, because it was not posted on 18the agenda for action.19 MAYOR SIKES: Yes, sir.20 MR. NICHOLS: But I'm going to be in Corsicana 21in about four hours.22 MAYOR SIKES: Great.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 196 21 MR. NICHOLS: But I've got my daughter's 2basketball game I've got to go to. I think that's -- but3I will come back to Corsicana in a few days.4 MR. WILLIAMSON: You're admitting that?5 MR. NICHOLS: Yes. I have a 15-year-old 6daughter.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: No. You're admitting you're 8going to Corsicana?9 MAYOR SIKES: We would have never believed it.10 MR. NICHOLS: You would never believe I had a 1115-year-old daughter?12 MAYOR SIKES: Never. Never.13 MR. NICHOLS: I've got them about 30 years old 14all the way down to 15. Same wife, too, you know. Yes. 15We were in Corsicana playing basketball not too long ago.16The -- but I would like to come back to Corsicana early 17next week. Who would you like me to meet with?18 MAYOR SIKES: We will have anyone present that 19you would like to speak with.20 MR. NICHOLS: Who do I need to contact? Do I 21need to contact you?22 MAYOR SIKES: If you will contact our --3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 197 21 MR. NICHOLS: Our assistant, Sallie Burk, back 2there at the black -- the -- would you give her the phone3number of whoever, and I'll try to set up something so I 4can at least come over there and --5 MAYOR SIKES: That will be great.6 MR. NICHOLS: -- get into it.7 MAYOR SIKES: We really would appreciate the 8opportunity to show you what is on line for that project.9It's really unbelievable.10 MR. NICHOLS: We cannot take action.11 Do you have any questions?12 MR. WILLIAMSON: Yes. My colleague is going to13take the lead on this, and I'm sure he'll make the right 14decision. I want to ask you a couple questions about 15this developer.16 MAYOR SIKES: Certainly.17 MR. WILLIAMSON: Did the city have to give any 18tax abatements to this guy? Did the county or the school19district have to give any tax abatements?20 MAYOR SIKES: We have not. What we have done 21is we developed the TIF, the tax increment financing 22district, which is also -- when you talked about the 3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 198 21RMAs, that's -- we're trying to get a more regional 2attitude even within -- with our developers. We've 3basically had people working against each other, and now 4we're all together.5 And so the city, the college, and the county 6taxes will be deferred to pay back the TIF.7 MR. WILLIAMSON: Okay. And did you have to put8any cash into the deal?9 MAYOR SIKES: We --10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Like did he require you to go 11buy the property from someone?12 MAYOR SIKES: We did purchase that tract of 13land. Yes.14 MR. WILLIAMSON: That he's going to use.15 MAYOR SIKES: Yes.16 MR. WILLIAMSON: And has someone gone to 17Minnesota and made sure they're really doing something?18 MAYOR SIKES: Yes.19 MR. WILLIAMSON: Physically.20 MAYOR SIKES: Yes.21 MR. WILLIAMSON: Not digital cameras.22 MR. WILLIAMSON: No.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 199 21 MR. SCHLIEM: Yes. As a matter of fact, when --2Mr. Nichols, when you attend, I do have probably 20 sets 3of film on the digital cameras, and my wife and I had to 4go on up along with one of our councilman. Jay Waterman 5also was up there and stayed overnight at the hotel and 6went through their whole thing.7 They have nine of these operations, two in 8Nebraska, one in Owatonna, Minnesota, is what we are 9designating.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: What's their target market?11 MR. SCHLIEM: Tourists. It's a tourist 12destination with a water park and with a -- and the 13region -- we're in such a designated area. Corsicana is 14located -- it has about a million more people to draw 15from in a 350-mile radius than the rest of the 16communities we were against in Texas. And they are a 17large hunting, fishing, and retail store for gentlemen, 18and the other part is for the ladies that hunt, they will19also have shopping for -- a retail center similar to what20Hillsboro has, along with a 190-room hotel, a one-acre 21indoor water park, and a six-acre outdoor water park.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 200 21 And it's more of destination center is what 2they will make --3 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, let me just say, you 4couldn't have a better guy looking into your deal than 5Mr. Nichols.6 MAYOR SIKES: Well, we appreciate that. And 7like I say, we were, ourselves, frankly leery. And 8that's why people have actually gone, just as you 9suggested, to see it for themselves.10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, we're catching a lot of 11grief now about our position on frontage roads and ramps,12and we're willing to take that grief.13 MR. NICHOLS: One of the main things we hope to14accomplish -- of course, this is something that's going 15to come out as rule, then be debated, and all that kind 16of stuff --17 MAYOR SIKES: Yes, sir.18 MR. NICHOLS: -- is that wouldn't it be nice to19know that you had those access rights at the beginning 20before you did all those steps?21 MAYOR SIKES: Yes.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 201 21 MR. NICHOLS: Rather than doing all those steps2and hoping --3 MAYOR SIKES: And hoping.4 MR. NICHOLS: -- they're approved?5 MAYOR SIKES: Yes, sir, it would.6 MR. NICHOLS: I think that is -- I know from 7what I had seen -- would eliminate a lot of grief in the 8process.9 MR. SCHLIEM: And we are requiring a $1-1/2 10million bond if they default of any building for this. 11And we only have about $800,000 into the land. So if 12they do not come through with their $20 million minimum 13development, the $1-1/2 million bond or letter or credit 14will be called to pay the city back for their --15 MR. NICHOLS: Okay. We'll try to set up 16something either next week, whoever you want me to get 17with or whatever.18 MAYOR SIKES: Great.19 MR. NICHOLS: I will have read the packet by 20then, and try to get with Sallie back there.21 Sallie, would you hold your hand up? Do they 22know who -- okay.3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 202 21 MAYOR SIKES: Thank you very much.2 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you, everybody.3 MAYOR SIKES: We appreciate it. Thank you.4 MR. NICHOLS: Any further business?5 MR. WILLIAMSON: No, sir.6 MR. NICHOLS: No need for an executive 7committee?8 MR. WILLIAMSON: No, sir.9 MR. NICHOLS: Do I hear a motion to adjourn?10 MR. WILLIAMSON: Is there anybody from the 11Houston Chronicle present?12 (No response.)13 MR. WILLIAMSON: Well, I have some facts and 14figures I was going to read into the record, Mr. 15Chairman, but I suppose the Houston Chronicle is really 16not interested in seeing what goes on at the Texas 17Department of Transportation, so I'll move we adjourn.18 MR. NICHOLS: Second. All in favor, say aye.19 MR. WILLIAMSON: Aye.20 (Whereupon, at 1:00 p.m., the meeting was 21concluded.)3 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342 1 203 21 C E R T I F I C A T E23MEETING OF: Texas Transportation Commission4LOCATION: Austin, Texas5DATE: November 15, 20016 I do hereby certify that the foregoing pages, 7numbers 1 through 203, inclusive, are the true, accurate,8and complete transcript prepared from the verbal 9recording made by electronic recording by Penny Bynum 10before the Texas Department of Transportation. 11 12 13 14 15 16 11/18/01 17 (Transcriber) (Date) 18 19 On the Record Reporting, Inc. 20 3307 Northland, Suite 315 21 Austin, Texas 78731 22 233 4 ON THE RECORD REPORTING NOVEMBER 15, 2001 5 (512) 450-0342

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