<p>Irene Thomas </p><p>Irene’s Story...</p><p>Irene Thomas interviewed by Nina Dawson on 2nd October 2012</p><p>Summary: In this interview Irene looks back at working at the biscuit factory, Peek Freans, for 44 years, getting evacuated twice when a child, winning a trade scholarship, working on a comptometer as well as going out with friends to dances, the pictures and get-togethers at the film studios near St. Mary’s Church. </p><p>Hello, I’m Nina Dawson and I’m here with Irene and I’m in her flat. And today is Tuesday the 2nd of October. Irene, could you say and spell your name for me please.</p><p>Irene: Could I spell it? I-R-E-N-E. Irene.</p><p>And your surname-</p><p>Irene: Thomas – T-H-O-M-A-S.</p><p>Wonderful thank you. Can you also tell me when and where you were born please?</p><p>Irene: Well, I wasn’t born in London although I’d class myself as a Londoner. I came here when I was two – I was born in a little tiny village just outside South End called Great Wakering and the village where I was born- was- was my father come from a family of thirteen, and he had twelve brothers and one sister, and I was born and christened in – I was born in my grandmother’s house in High Street, in this little tiny village and I was christened in a church where all my uncles were married, or, or, everything and everything, everything happened in this little tiny village. It was only a little tiny place – just outside South End. But I came – my father married my mother and he couldn’t get any jobs there so he bought me to London. Then we came to Bermondsey, so I’ve been in Bermondsey since I been two.</p><p>Okay. Sorry, could you tell me when you were born please?</p><p>Irene: Yeah, um, the 28th of the seventh, ‘29. </p><p>Wonderful thank you – they’re all the official questions now. What we’re really interested in finding out from you Irene is about your working history – and you spent a lot of time- time at Peek Freans I understand. </p><p>Irene: Before I tell you that – I was evacuated from Alma.Do you know Alma at all? Alma School - I was evacuated from there and I was eleven years old and I had two sisters and we was evacuated to Seaton in Devon –and we was s there for three years, well nearly until I was 14 – but I won a trade scholarship while I was there but I couldn’t do anything ‘cos my mother ‘s got – my mother had six children- I was the eldest, so she wanted me to come back to London ‘cos she needed the money. So she brought me back to London when I was 14 and when I came back at 14 I spoke like a country yokel – you know, I’d been there three years and I spoke “aye aye be?” you know, that kind of language, and we came back to London and when we came back to London they were still – some planes going over, and there were still Doodlebugs, Doodlebugs and later on we had the rockets. But when we got off at the station I cried my eyes out because I’d been in the country and to come and see London - it was all bombed and it was dirty – I was – we came home one week and the next week I was put – my mother took me into Peek Freans to work, the next week!</p><p>1 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>Really!</p><p>Irene: Yeah, the next week. And I was 14 when I started there – and I started there in the – as a messenger, to begin with – </p><p>And what did that involve?</p><p>Irene: Well, at the time when I did start there was twenty of us, and we all got jobs – not like now – now you - there’s about 200 people for one job, isn’t there? And I still keep in touch with a lot of the people that -I see them, because I’m a local girl – I see them down the road. I mean at one time everybody worked at Peek Freans. You won’t find many people who didn’t work there; even if they just worked there to – because they started with 4000 workers, there was 4000 workers there when I first started. And I started as a messenger, then I went into the office, I went as a typist, and after that I went to sales girl- I went and did some typing. And then after that I went to the cashiers. Then I took time off to have my daughter. And then I went back and went back evening shift ‘cos Peek Freans used to have morning, afternoon workers – evening workers, shift workers and all night workers. So it was one continual thing all the time. And I loved it there, I loved it there. And it was only across the road from where I used to live. Because I used to live in Lucy Road, which was called Lucy Road when we used to live in our house but now it’s called Lucy Way because it’s all flats. I only used to have to cross the road and go into work – it was brilliant, no travelling or anything. And I never – I can’t understand people now with this work – because I loved it there. Absolutely loved it, I was a messenger – I started from the bottom and worked up, you know, but I just loved it, I loved going to work.</p><p>So what did you have to do as a messenger – who were you.....</p><p>Irene: Well when they first took us off they took us on as messengers because – before we was assigned to different places we had to know the run of the factory and we had to know the run of the offices as well – it should be in the case of now – you start at the bottom and you work yourself up, you work yourself up you do different jobs and- and that’s what the interesting part about it, all these different jobs – yeah it was really good I loved it. And wherever I went, sales office – and I ended up when I was 58 in the cashiers, and I- we used to do all their wages, I was a wages clerk – we used to all their wages. It was lovely. If you read the book about Peek Freans it’s so interesting, you’ll find it so interesting. We had doctors on there, we had doctors, we had nurses – it was fantastic.</p><p>So there were 4000 people when you started...?</p><p>Irene: Yeah and there was only a thousand people left there when – Nabisco, the American firm came over and took us over and I think they came and took us over just for a quick buck because they shut us down and we was a growing concern – everybody had Peek Freans biscuits, if you ask – I mean when I was a little girl we had a corner shop and my mother used to say to me, because years ago they didn’t have biscuits like we have wrapped up they had them in tins, and she used to say to me “Go down to the shop, get some biscuits and make sure they’re Peek Freans” and little did I know that my life was Peek Freans, little did I know. It was fantastic. We was a growing concern and they shut us down. That’s life innit?</p><p>So the 20 of you that started together, did everyone else stay as long as you?</p><p>Irene: Yeah – a lot of them did, yes a lot of the girls did, in the offices, yeah an d several of the boys became van boys, and they went out and they was drivers, and one of the boys I still see one, he started with me – he’s the same age as me. Now 83 and he started with me and I see him regular down the blue shopping, say hello and have a cuddle and say how are you and how’s the family and that – he’s still here. But of course a lot of them have gone all different places and some have moved out of London now, haven't they, but I still 2 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas see about four people that came to Peek Freans with me. Yeah, I still do see four people. And I also go - once a month we have a get together down at the- you know the film studios down in St Mary’s Church? Well once a month – the first Friday in every month we go there, but there’s only about six or seven of us go there now – there used to be a lot but now they’ve passed away and people have moved. We go there and we look at the pictures of Peek Freans and we talk about the times we had and what we used to do. It’s lovely.</p><p>08:47</p><p>Was it very social at the time when you were working there?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah, we had – the social club, it’s all in there in that book – yeah we had a big social club, we had dances, we used to go away for the day – well, years ago they used to call them “beano’s” but they’re not now –we used to go away for the day and we used to have the dances, and in Peek Freans at the top of the building we used to have dances up there – yeah – great social – and a lot of the men from the bake house used to go in the marathons, you know – it was lovely.</p><p>So after you did your two years as a messenger, how did you choose that you wanted to be in typing-?</p><p>Irene: Well, it was up to them, they used to ask you what you’d like to do, you know, and I began as a typist, you know. </p><p>When did you manage to get in learning to type?</p><p>Irene: No, they learned me there- </p><p>Oh, did they?</p><p>Irene: Yeah, the typewriter was there and there was a board over the top and you had to touch type, you know – and that’s funny you know because sometimes someone says to me when I’m in the television, say if somebody lives in Salisbury, I’ll say Wiltshire because I remember I used to type all the invoices for all the biscuits to go out to all the different places. So I got to know all the different places, and I still remember all the places now - oh I say, yeah that’s in Wiltshire, innit? And from typing I wanted to do something different, 'cos typing's boring. You know- you’re doing that all day long, and I wanted to do something else so they sent me up to the sales, you know, and- and for a little while up there, and then – I like handling money – you know, I thought to myself, I’d like to do anything like that, wages. So they sent me down to the wages office and years ago we didn’t have computers like you got now we used to have comptometers years ago they would be called comptometers and you’d go like that and you’d work out all the wages – you’d get, they’re cards, the people used to come in – they used to put cards in, and their hours and we used to do it on a comptometer and we used to work out all their wages out. Then I liked that, then- then I said could I go and handle the money, so they said yes, so they sent me into the cashiers and I used to have a machine and it had all the old money – florins and everything, all- all down- and if you wanted nine and eleven out of- when you were doing the wages, you’d get an envelope you’d put it underneath and you’d press nine and eleven and all the different coins would come down and you’d go into – but then afterwards, it was different afterwards, after they got rid of that they went onto computers and things and we used to just get their wage slips, we used to get their big wage slips come in and we used to have to do it by hand, we used to do it all by hand then, all the money and that. The money used to come from the mint, just over the – all the money’s come from the mint. We used to have - a van used to, the police used to come and bring it in and we used to have to check it all. So interesting, money’s interesting. But it wasn’t money it was a job – I know that sounds silly – we used to have to look through the money and see if there were any duds, you know, and we used to – it’s not like it is now – we used to have to check all the notes to make 3 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas sure there were no duds in there like, and it was altogether different and when we was in the wages if we – we used to have to balance – you had to balance up to a penny, years ago, I don’t think it’s like it now, but we used to have to balance to a penny, and if we was a penny out we had to go back all over the week and find out where that penny was. We used to have to go back all over the week to find out where that penny was, yeah. They were so hot like not now- I mean look at the banks now- they lose thousands don’ they? We never used to lose a penny! They lose thousands now, don’t they? It was so interesting and yeah, I was still there when I left.</p><p>Talking of wages, do you remember your first wage?</p><p>Irene: I can’t remember it – but I know it was under two pound – it was one pound something – </p><p>A week?</p><p>Irene: Yeah, a week – yeah I know, when I married if I got – cos the old ten bob note, you know, the old ten bob note – if I had that on a Monday that would see me through the whole week. A ten bob note. Would have me for the whole week.</p><p>But when you were living with your mum you were contributing into the household-</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah – Mum – well, I was the eldest of six, you got to ‘intya? She would take all my money; give me two and six back.</p><p>Really?</p><p>Irene: That’s twelve and half p now – she used to take all my money and give me half a crown back.</p><p>And what did you spend it on?</p><p>Irene: Well, pictures - we went to go pictures with it –and you’d get fish and chips for sixpence. You didn’t need a lot of money because you didn’t go – we didn’t have a lot of money so we never went places like where we – and if we went over the West End for a thing we’d save up for about – you know we’d put some money by to save up to go over the West End for pictures because it was always dearer over there. And I remember the first boy came – I don’t even remember him now, he took me – well he was in the office when I was young, he took me to the pictures and when I come back you know, I said, the girls said to me how’d you get on so I said “oooh he took up in the one and nines” which was posh then– ‘cos there was a big cinema at Elephant and Castle, The Trocadero – there used to be lots of cinemas around, didn’t there?– yeah, we used to save up to go to the pictures. And when I was little I used to go to the early mornings, Saturday early mornings you know – yeah it was, you made your money go far and you saved, you saved a little bit. My father always said to me always save a little bit, always – you know I've never been in debt in my life? Not even now. I haven't even got a credit card- I've never been in debt. I can't understand people being in debt – never been in debt, yeah. Good innit? Yeah I know. That's how life should be?, that's how life should be. We didn't have anything years ago, we didn't have hardly anything but we got better, got better and better and better. And we're still here 'int we? My husband's 90 and I'm 83 so we're still here. We don't need a lot of things but we're quite happy- we don't smoke and we don't drink so we're fine.</p><p>And did you meet him there?</p><p>Irene: No, the funny part about it was – four girls from Peek Freans, we all went away to Butlins Holiday camp in Clacton, which is shut now, and while we was there he was there with his friend but he lived in Camberwell Green. And it was funny that he came from Camberwell Green, which isn't very far - and I came 4 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas from Bermondsey - to me. And we said where we'd come from and there was four of us and my friend- I still, I still- we still phone, she- she lives out, but we still phone, we met when we were sixteen and we still phone – and she went with, my husband and his mate – I didn't go with my husband because he fancied one of the girls of the four I was with and when we came home he made arrangements for one of the girls, Lilly, to meet at the New Cross Pally, which is now The Venue- it used to be New Cross Pally, used to be dancing, and we all arranged to meet there and she didn't turn up. So I turned up and my friend turned up – so when I was time to come home he said “I'll see you home” and I said “Oh no, don't bother seeing me home” I said 'cos I knew he wanted Lily really, 'cos she was a good dancer, and he said “No I'll see you home” so he saw me home and that was it. And I've been with him since I was 19. Yeah – so I've been with him – but we didn't get married for about four years but we courted all that time, saved up and that. I've been married 58 years this year. A long while innit? It's like a jail sentence, innit? But he's okay, he's okay, I'm happy. And I've got a daughter – I've only had one daughter but she's given me four children- I’ve got three lovely grandsons and a little girl, 14. Got a boy, 25, a boy 28 and a boy 21, so yeah I'm a lucky lady. We haven't got much, but I'm lucky I've got a lovely, lovely family and, I still keep in, we're all alive – I still keep in check with all my sisters and my brothers so there's still the six of us are still alive and we never lost anybody in the war.</p><p>Really!</p><p>Irene: No, we never lost anybody in the war, but I did have an uncle who was at Dunkirk and you know when all the little boats went over from Dover, picked 'em all up, all the soldiers at Dunkirk – he picked up and he only died - he was 80 something and he only died last year – so, we were a lucky family. We was bombed out once but we was a lucky family.</p><p>So going back to Peek Freans, quite interested in when you were doing the typing, was that a typing pool, you were in?</p><p>Irene: Yeah a typing pool!</p><p>And how many people were in a typing pool?</p><p>Irene: 'Bout twenty.</p><p>And was that – were you able to have a natter and a laugh while you were working or...complete silence-</p><p>Irene: No it wasn't – we used to have to go put our hands up if we wanted to go toilet.</p><p>Really!</p><p>Irene: Yes and I got told off once for talking so she said – we had two supervisors and they were alright - Miss Holman I remember her name, Miss Holman – and I turned around to say to someone have you got a rubber because now you've got that white stuff to put over things 'int you? But we used to have to rub it out – used to have to pick up the carbon and rub it out, you know, so I turned around and said have you got a rubber and she said “What are you talking for?” and told me off – yeah! Told me off – yes, seriously. I said, “I'm asking her for a rubber” so she said “ Where's your rubber?” They was very strict.</p><p>So how long was a working day?</p><p>Irene: I used to go in at nine o'clock till half past five. Yeah, nine o'clock till half past five – and an hour for lunch.</p><p>5 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>What did you do for lunch?</p><p>Irene: I used to come home because I lived just across the road – I used to come home and have a sandwich, like. But they had a nice canteen there, we could go in there and have what we wanted – yeah, we used to have afternoon break, you know, go and have tea and coffee and we used to – we didn't have machines, we had a lady who done it you know, she done it like.</p><p>So was that quite a social thing – your afternoon break?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah – because all the factory – oh the office and the factory didn't have different canteens, we were all in one which was proper- proper. 'Cos I still see a lot of the ladies who worked in the factory you know, I still see 'em and say hello to 'em.</p><p>So everyone mixed there wasn't like sort of…?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah – and also years ago we had a lot of coloured ladies there but they were different to they were now – I know it sounds funny but – I find, um – coloured people don't want to mix so much now but years ago they'd work on the floor together – they were alright, I used to know them all. I see a coloured lady now that used to work on the factory and she says hello to me and gives me a cuddle and says how you doing and all that but there was no – everybody was okay, everybody worked – it was all work, and you'll see in that book, they're all working on the floor yeah.</p><p>Was that – were people expected to work in silence there as well - in the factory?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah –</p><p>That was silence as well – </p><p>Irene: Yeah, I'll tell you one day the office staff they wanted some people to go on a Saturday morning there was a big order I think it was Cheeselets, the old Cheeselets and they said would anybody like to be interested in the office going – so I said yeah so several of us went and we had to put on all the gear and that, working in the office – and it was interesting to know how the girls worked and I used to have to go in – 'cos if there was a wage query and the girl couldn't leave the belt because they were on the belts I used to have to go into the factory and- and- and see 'em and ask different things so I used to see what was going on, it was quite interesting. It was very interesting yeah, very interesting. We went there one Saturday and it was quite good, we enjoyed it – see how the other half did it. It was really good, very good. Loved it.</p><p>So when you were a cashier, how many people were in the office there?</p><p>Irene: We had about seven (counts 1, 2,...) outside girls but in the cashier's itself there was my boss, and five – there was five in the cashier's office 'cos we were in an office that was away from everything else, had a big safe in there 'cos it was money, we had big glass and everything there – and we used to have girls, sales girls in the other room next to us like – this is the cashiers and it was in the next room and when we was doing the wages we used to ask two of the girls to come in and help with the wages because it was a big job – we only all had two days to do it in, and that was the wages for all the firm – we only had two days, we had to do all their wages, put them all in envelopes and put them in their - they went in certain boxes and supervisors from the factory used to come up and take the- take the money, used to have to count it, make sure, sign for it and they used to take it into the factory and then they'd come back and they'd say so and so isn't in and we'd put that in a special place 'cos maybe someone was sick and they hadn't come so they would have to come the next week and get a special- special permission and come and we used to give them their money on the next week – it was pretty strict though. But I liked that – yeah I loved it. 6 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>Did you feel that you were treated with respect?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah, oh yeah everybody was – not like it is now, oh everybody was. I get on my bus and nobody gets up sometimes and gives me a seat you know, but not everybody's like it. There's good and bad in all of 'em innt there? Good and bad, yeah. And when the men used to come up from the factory they used to say hello to us and say how are you know - oh yeah, we was treated with great respect. In fact, when you work in an office you're sort of um, treated a bit different from the factory aren't you...?</p><p>I was wondering that – particularly when you were doing the wages, whether everyone treated you with even more respect so you made sure you gave them the right money – </p><p>Irene: Yeah, they did they did because I used to have girls come up and say they got a query- and I mean, a couple of girls, I see a couple of 'em now they used to say “ Can you ask Reenie to come and do it” you know, 'cos you've got to be very conscientious where there's money and you got to be – I mean you've got to be very careful when you do things because where money's concerned, you- you- if you did their wages wrong they didn't like it you know, they have to come up and say, why is it wrong and all this business so you had to be very conscientious, yeah, but you were treated with respect. And even more when you worked in an office. I should imagine you two do, you two with the work you do surely you're treated with more respect no?</p><p>Well, I don't have a job at the moment...</p><p>Irene: No I mean well – the type of work you're doing – yeah, think about it.</p><p>So whereabouts did you do your shopping?</p><p>Irene: Oh local, down the Blue, 'cos it used to have David Greg's and everything, we had all the big shops there, the Blue, not supermarkets, there didn't have supermarkets down there, but used to be local.</p><p>So would you do that on the way home or was that a Saturday thing?</p><p>Irene: No I'd used do it sometimes as I was coming home, sometimes I'd pop out in the dinner hour sometimes, you know, and get something you know, but was mostly weekends – Saturday or Friday, you know, 'cos all the shops used to be shut Sunday, didn't they, you used to have to do it – not like it is now – they're all doing it online now aren't they? </p><p>So what did you do on Sundays?</p><p>Irene: Nothing much- everything was shut, all the cinemas, everything. I used to hate Sundays.</p><p>Cinema’s as well?</p><p>Irene: Yeah – used to hate Sundays, nothing doing – and the television, there was only a couple of stations, only used to have three stations on didn't ya, yeah not like it is now, you got about a hundred now intya? Times are different, times are different. I wouldn't say they're better though. No, everybody used to look after one another when we was young – and there's a little girl missing now innt there? Terrible, absolutely terrible.</p><p>So socially, you like to go to the pictures, and dances- </p><p>7 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>Irene: Oh yeah went to the pictures regular – we always went to the pictures regular because they used to go up to Wednesday then they used to change – it was always the pictures. And I used to go dancing – I love ballroom dancing, and I used to go dancing yeah. And you went with your friends from work?</p><p>Irene: Yeah, and Ron – used to go with Ron as well but mostly – mostly we used to go to the pictures mostly – that's what most people did years ago, dancing and pictures – there was nothing much else to do.</p><p>How ‘bout the pub?</p><p>Irene: No – didn't go to the pub – I don't drink – no I never drink – I've got some wine here for people if they come but I don't drink. My father was a drinker so you know, none of us drink. I mean I'm not saying anything bad ‘bout going in the pub you can go in the pub, anybody can go in the pub – you know, it's social isn't it yeah – </p><p>But for you at the time it was pictures and dancing – </p><p>Irene: Oh yeah – you was, you shouldn’t really go in the pub if you was a– I don't know why but years ago women never went in pubs, did they? They never went in pubs, did they? It was a man's world weren't it yeah – a man's world.</p><p>So when you got married – you took time off work to have your daughter, and you went back to work – </p><p>Irene: I went back because she was little – my husband was self-employed so he used to go out in the daytime and I used to go out at five o'clock till ten of the evening shift – I worked fourteen years on the evening shift – </p><p>Wow – </p><p>Irene: Fourteen years, then on the evening shift till she went to her secondary school and then I was okay and I went back full time – I went back full time after that but other than that my husband used to - I used to look after her all day and then my husband used to come in at five and then he'd look after her till I came home from work, yeah.</p><p>What did your husband do?</p><p>Irene: He was a self-employed window cleaner – but then again I used to have the dirtiest windows on the estate – I'm not joking – he used to say it's not the same as not being paid for – he used to do everybody's windows except mine. I mean one Christmas I said to him – 'cos I used to you know you like to have new curtains up over Christmas – I used to say to him “hurry up and do my windows so I can put clean curtains up for Christmas” yeah. And then – until he had to pack it in you know, like when the weather got bad and that, but he was a window cleaner until he was about 70 – yeah, very active. </p><p>Are we okay?</p><p>Yes -</p><p>Irene: You're thinking what to say now aren't you? I can half rabbit – I can go on and on – yeah. Life's very interesting innit? Life's interesting innit and I mean us oldens we've had a pretty good life you know – I mean looking back – I mean when we went to pictures, while we was in the pictures and the Doodlebugs </p><p>8 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas were coming over you know, they used to say “do you want to stay here, continue with the films or you can go” and we used to stay in there 'cos we didn't want to miss the films.</p><p>What sort of films did you go and see?</p><p>Irene: All sorts! Musicals, war films – all sorts.</p><p>Did you like singing as well? Did you sing yourself?</p><p>Irene: No - tone deaf – I can't do it now but ten years ago I did line dancing, but I can't do it know because I've injured my spine. So I can't do that anymore – </p><p>Oh that's a shame – </p><p>Irene: Here's my boots – </p><p>Oh fantastic! Going back to your work - was there a union? And were you in it? Was everyone in it?</p><p>Irene: Yeah, yeah – everyone was in it yeah.</p><p>Do you remember striking?</p><p>Irene: No, no – didn't do that years ago – oh we did have the general strike once, but that was before my time, not when I was at work – no, we wouldn't dream of doing that. We were content with what we got – can you understand that?</p><p>Yes, so there wasn't sort of general unhappiness – everyone was just happy – </p><p>Irene: No, no, we were quite happy with our wages and everything, no – yeah – and I mean people want – nowadays people want things they want it and they want it now, know what I mean? – They don't want to save up – I mean, before I got married I used to save money into a, until we got our own place, I used to save money into a furniture shop, I used to pay so much a week, but now people get into debt. Not the same, not the same is it.</p><p>So even though everyone was happy, everyone was still a member of a union? Was that just the way –</p><p>Irene: Yeah it was yeah – I mean there must have been some- some that wasn't in the union but you know, years ago unions were the thing for workers weren't they years ago, not now so much but they were years ago. I think a lot of people used to say they were a necessary evil.</p><p>But because everyone was generally happy there it wasn't an issue – </p><p>IRENE: Yeah – </p><p>Did you get sick pay?</p><p>IRENE: Oh yeah – and I got maternity pay as well – </p><p>Did you!</p><p>9 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>IRENE: Yeah and we had a nurse- and we had a nurse and a doctor there and you know, it was all free. We used to have someone come about your teeth or your eyes, all come for free.</p><p>Oh so you didn't have to take time off for appointments – everything was there. IRENE: No – yeah – they looked after us you know they were a good – they were the C.A.R.R.S., and they looked after us. It was a family! It was a family place – it's not like that now – it was a family orientated firm. I mean one day on evening shift, for instance, the boss Richard Carr – where we worked in part of the building, he had a place at the top and you used to have go up in a lift and one evening shift my friend and I - which I still see her every week, she's nearly 90 and I see her every week, we worked together - and we was going in evening shift and he was coming down in the lift and we said to him “Good evening Richard” and he said “oh hello” he said “ are you the evening shift” and we said “yeah” so he said “oh have you seen my -” and now this is the boss, he owned the place, and he said (well he was one of the bosses anyway, because there was about three brothers) and he said to me “have you seen my new office upstairs” and we said “no” and he said “would you like to come up and have a look” he said. “ At the moment”, he said “I'm going to get my wife she's had a skiing operation and she broke her leg and I'm going to meet her at the airport”. And so he said “would you like to come up and see it “ and he took us up and he showed us all his – never looked down on you – they spoke to you and spoke to you normally and one of the sons got married and he brought his little boy in there, one of the sons, - I don't think if it was Richard or Rupert, I don't know which one it was and he bought one of his sons Michael in – he was only a little boy about nine - and he came into the cashier's office and he saw the machine and he said to me “ooooh” and so I said “would you like to have a go” and I put the money in and he was pressing it and about twenty years afterwards we had a reunion down the Pumphouse and Michael was there and he was a grown man now. So I said to him “hello Michael, do you remember me?” and he said “you're the lady who let me do the machine aren't you” and he was a grown man and he still remembered, see that's what it was it was a family thing. It was lovely.</p><p>It's interesting what you just said when you saw the boss in the lift and you said “hello Richard” - first names, to bosses?</p><p>IRENE: Yeah - Richard and Rupert, yeah – we never used to call them sir, we used to say hello Richard and the father was named John- his name was John – but you never spoke to him, 'cos he was – and he always had a flower in his – and he used to walk through with his hand behind his back, but we used to be able to speak to Richard and Rupert and as I said Michael, the grandson. Yeah, the grandson, he came and he remembered me, because he remembered the machine. I said “you remember that?” and he went, and he said “yeah!” he said, “good weren't it” and he went - he's left the firm now, he works for a place making cider. I haven't see him for years now.</p><p>What did you – you just reminded me when you were talking about the big boss, about wearing his flower – what did you wear to work?</p><p>IRENE: Oh we had to look smart, you know, we had to look smart – we could wear trousers- we could wear trousers and that but we – had to look smart, you did working in an office, you used to wear you know nice things – even the factory girls used to look nice coming in, everybody used to, you know, look well, used to look after themselves. Well we was all working and we wanted to get some money didn't we, yeah –</p><p>Where did you buy your clothes from?</p><p>IRENE: C&A's – do you remember C&A's? Yeah it used to be at Peckham, didn't it? Yeah mostly C&A's we used to buy things, skirts and years ago we used to have shoes and we used to have an ankle bar round here and me and my friends we used to save up and when we had enough money we’d go over the West End and get the latest thing in shoes – you know, high heels, platforms – yeah, we used to save up. And if 10 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas we wanted to go- go out to – every so often the girls in the factory and in the office used to get together and we used to go over the West End to see a show and we would save up for it. We'd all put money in what’s name and save up for it – all girls, you know. It was fun, it was fun. We had a good social life.</p><p>And other people stayed there a similar time as you did? Irene: You'll find a lot of people stayed there; they did yeah, because it's local- what’s ‘er name? - There was no fares, no I think – a lot of people only stayed there for only a couple of months or something like that, but you'll find as you go round talking to all these people nearly everybody came to Peek Freans at some time or another, nearly everybody. And I know so many people, it's because I was in the wages and they got to know me through the wages and I was there all them years – I was there from 14 right up to 58. Yeah, and they made me redundant – but they made me redundant so I wouldn't lose out on my redundancy money because I was getting on for 60 and you're not allowed to have redundancy money and your state pension, because I got my state pension at 60 – yeah, I got my state pension at 60 but nowadays you can't do that now, can you, you got to work up till you're 67 – yeah, I know. Think about it.</p><p>Did you get free biscuits?</p><p>Irene: No but we got a discount and we got bags of broken biscuits – </p><p>I was going to ask you about broken biscuits - </p><p>Irene: Well I think I've kept Bermondsey in broken biscuits – everybody - there was, you remember Shuttleworth’s chocolate place? I used to know a girl in there - I used to get her broken biscuits and she used to give me broken chocolates – we used to swap. But you'd go in the biscuit shop; you'd get loads of biscuits cheap, you know. But funnily enough, although I worked there and I worked in the office, I never used to eat a lot of biscuits, I used to be getting them for other people, you know. But you'd get a whole bag like that for 20p, a whole bag – it was brilliant. And when it shut down all together I prayed, I said please God, please don't let them knock the factory down because I worked there all my life. And I love to go past it and look at it. Love to go past it and look at it. Love it. But it's still there.</p><p>Presumably you could smell the biscuits?</p><p>Irene: Oh you could smell the biscuits – and you know Peek Freans puddings, they were made all the year round – you'd smell them all the time, and when they was on Cheeselets you'd smell the Cheeselets, and then when they was on Twiglets as you'd go past you'd smell the marmite -that's what people - I don't know if you've known anybody like from Peek Freans - that's what they associate with, all the different smells, and if you go past Peek Freans now and look at the top floor, that used to be the pudding room – and people used to make me laugh, they used to say, oh I like Marks & Spencer puddings but they weren't Marks & Spencer puddings, they were our puddings, but Marks & Sparks used to - we'd have to use extra things in 'em, can you understand that – Marks & Sparks used to come there, they used to say, we'd have to put extra fruit in or extra something else in and add the Marks & Spencer label but they were made at Peek Freans.</p><p>Oh – what other companies did they make puddings and biscuits for?</p><p>Irene: Mostly, no – I don't know – no, mostly all Peek Freans, it was just the puddings – we had all Nice, patter cake, shortcake, and nowhere where you buy shortcake now do they taste like Peek Freans, not the shortcake. Nowhere. Yeah, we done everything and years ago we used to put proper cheese in the Cheeselets but towards the end– oh yeah, blocks of cheese like this, blocks of chocolate in the storeroom – but we used to go over there and say could we have a bit of cheese to have – not the chocolate – can we have a little bit of cheese to have with our, you know, and they used to cut us off a bit and say don't let 11 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas anybody know – a little bit, yeah, 'cos us office girls used to go in there and say can we have a little bit of cheese. Lovely, lovely. Happy times yeah. And you say you haven't got a job now, you're doing this – well this is a job for you isn’t' it-? </p><p>Yeah, doesn't pay the mortgage. Irene: I know! You're happy doing this aren't you-</p><p>I need to get a job though – yes, I'm very happy doing this.</p><p>Irene: What type of work would you like?</p><p>I'll tell you that after the interview...</p><p>Irene: Oh of course! I’ve been talking, yeah. Been talking, yeah.</p><p>Let me see what gaps I might have to fill in – what did your siblings do for work? Did they come over the factory with you?</p><p>Irene: No, no – my sister got a job there but she didn't like it so she went- she got a job somewhere else – one was a- my brother was a carpenter, my sister was a- worked in Barrow & Gale that used to be down by the Cabbage Road, she used to work there in the office and then my other sister was a care-worker, my other sister was a machinist over Shoreditch – she worked for a Jew, you know, used to be a machinist, she used to do machining – all sorts, uniforms, all sorts – well we had to work – and sometimes I'd have a day off and my Mum used to say “why have you got a day off?” and I'd say “it's all right Mum, I'm entitled to it!” - you know, it was work – everybody worked – not now – no seriously, but there was jobs – there isn't now, but everybody worked, yeah we were brought up to work. My father used to say to me “you don't get nothing – you work for what you get, you know you work.”</p><p>How many days holiday did you get a year, do you remember?</p><p>Irene: Oh – a fortnight.</p><p>And did you take that in lots of little days or a whole week or-?</p><p>Irene: Yeah you could have a week off, I used to have a week off then another week off, you know.</p><p>And where did you go?</p><p>Irene: Oh local – Camber sands, Leysdown, all local like, and yeah it wasn't until we got married later on that we went to Cornwall and that, different places like that, but mostly we've all been local.</p><p>You told me about the... Irene, could you tell me a little bit more about how the computers changed?</p><p>Irene: Well, there used to be what was called comptometers and you'd work it like this, you'd work it out, and it would come at the bottom and you'd have the result of how much they've earned at the bottom and then just before I left they wanted to teach me computers, I said “no, I don't want to learn that because you're going to get rid of me, you're going to get rid of me anyway” but that was the turn, when I was 58, it was after that that the computers came in but then they shut us down. Then they shut us down so I had no knowledge of computers, no knowledge of computers at all, because – we used to – what they used to call a comptometer and that was working out like this all the time, not like this, all come up and with all the information, none of that, we used to have to do our brain – I mean, even now when I go shopping I've got 12 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas the habit of adding it up and I'm in the habit of adding it up and I go oh yeah that's going to be about eleven quid, and it is – it's about eleven something – you know what I mean – they don't use up here now, they don't use their brain now because it's all- all- I mean even the kids have got things in school, innt they? Don't use your brain – this is the finest thing going your brain, it's the finest thing going – you have to use it.</p><p>What changes did you see there, like say, technical changes? Anything that affected your work?</p><p>Irene: Well yeah, because while I was there the machinery in the factory, that- that altered, you know, that got better, you know with the biscuits – it was fantastic, the way the biscuits used to come down and they'd get wrapped up and that, it all that was done while I was there.</p><p>And did that make it easier for the people there- for the people on the conveyor belts?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah – but they used to work hard in there, you know, those girls used to – the biscuits used to come down and they'd get up a stack of biscuits like that and they'd go like and you know the stack of biscuits, I mean – I tried it once and they went like that down in the middle, you know, but they were so quick – everybody worked hard and you'd be surprised – those biscuits used to come down to be put in boxes and be put in different places and they never let one biscuit go down on the floor. They worked hard in the factory I tell you, they worked hard.</p><p>So was that because they were scared of punishment or were they – if they dropped biscuits what would happen?</p><p>Irene: No, no, no – they were just – that was their job. People did it, it was your job. I mean you're doing your job now. You're doing it properly – whatever job you, if you're doing your cooking or you're doing something – you should do it properly and this is what they did. You'd be surprised those girls, they never let one biscuit down – they didn't – they were experts, you know -they were clever, I mean the evening shift was very good what I worked on, they were very good. Well, they were all young mums – all young mums weren't they – </p><p>Oh really!</p><p>Irene: Most of them were young mums, 'cos they had somebody looking after their children while they came out of an evening – a lot of them were young mums.</p><p>So I guess you'd have a break mid-evening – would you have a break?</p><p>Irene: Oh yeah – have a break, yeah.</p><p>And then, so you'd all talk about your children?</p><p>Irene: Yeah it was good, it was good yeah – I loved it. The girl that I see – well, I don't see her every Friday because she's not been very well – but I manage to see her, and she'll be 90 at Christmas – and I worked with her, evening shift, we worked together, it was wonderful. And a lot of the men in the factory like the bakers and that when they was made redundant a lot of them got jobs and several of them went- cos I've had to go to Guy's a lot with my back and everything and several of them still work as porters- ‘cos to put a thousand people out of work at the time in one area that was a lot, yeah but you'd be surprised quite a lot of people did get jobs but not like it is now, it's awful now innit? I feel sorry for the youngsters of now, I really do, 'cos you see a dead job job advertised, it won't be one person will there, there'll be hundreds going for it won't there? They're coming out of uni and they've got too many degrees and they won't take 'em on because they're too clever – it's altogether different. 13 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>What was the scholarship you got?</p><p>Irene: For trade school –</p><p>To do what?</p><p>Irene: I wanted to go into catering - </p><p>Well, you ended up with biscuits –</p><p>Irene: Yeah – I wanted to go into catering, I don't know why I did, but my mum said, “oh she can't do nothing” so my headmistress in school where I was said “why can't she” and she said “oh I want to take her back to London” and that was it. She said “she's got to go to work” - mum had six of us, wasn't my mum's fault, it never hurt me, it never hurt me – </p><p>You never regretted that – </p><p>Irene: No, no – my mum needed the money – no, no, I didn't regret it. She said, my mother – when she took me up there, you know I was terrified – I was still a country girl, and she said “I don't want her in the factory,” she said, “ she's got to go in the office.” And that was it. She said “I don't want her in the factory, she's got to go in the office” and that was it. I had to go in the office! </p><p>But you wouldn't have minded where you went-?</p><p>Irene: No, no – I knew I had to go to work- we all had to go to work, years ago if you didn't work you was lazy – everybody worked didn't they – they did everybody worked – even- even sweeping, I mean we got people sweeping the road – where would we be if we didn't have sweepers – come on, the place would be filthy – where would we be if we didn't have bin men – you know, everybody's got a niche here to do things – work, work – you need to work, yeah – nothing comes easy now, nothing – but that's life, innit?</p><p>Did you have friends from – that you didn't work with? Apart from your husband –</p><p>Irene: No, mostly work – mostly at work, because it was the age wasn't it, it was the age and we used to go – I still see some school friends, you know when I was at primary school, still see them from years ago, you know, just say hello but we weren't friends – it wasn't until I worked that you got to go with the girls you know, with a load of girls and that and you'd get to know them all -yeah, you'd get to know 'em all. That's when you got friends, and I've still got friends that I've known for forty odd years, still got friends yeah.</p><p>Socially, was it quite- did you tend to be friends with your own age or was it quite mixed – </p><p>Irene: Mixed yeah – mixed yeah – even now – well a lot of it was our own age but we used to have a laugh with the young mums you know, we used to have a laugh with them and that you know – we used to all talk together around the table and that when we had our break and that – all mixed, everybody used to mix together – it was good, it was good.</p><p>Did everyone had their break at the same time – was it a set time or did a bell go – </p><p>Irene: No – some used to go at some time, so then they'd keep the belts going – so many girls would go off the belt and somebody would go on – 'cos the law says you gotta have a break, innit – you gotta have a break. 14 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson Irene Thomas </p><p>Did you notice any changes to employment law and rights – or were you treated well the whole time-?</p><p>Irene: We was fine, yeah we was fine – it was a family, I always thought I belonged to a family – isn't that, it's nice isn't it? Tis nice isn't yeah – and 'cos we got such a wonderful thing with the pensioners here haven't we with our TA, you know, we're wonderful now aren't we – we go to all these meetings – we went to a police meeting last week – yeah, find out that they're stopping all the police doing things with the police and everything yeah – it's quite interesting you got to keep this going, you got to keep your brain going – my legs are not so good now because I've had this accident but my brain's going and you know, I've got to keep this going, that's most important – yeah, most important. You know this is what the type of work you're doing as well, it's important – yeah – you love your job don't you – yeah I do – and I know you're enjoying this talking aren't ya? – yeah I am.</p><p>Are we finished yet?</p><p>I think so – thank you very much.</p><p>15 | P a g e Intergenerational Project 2012 From Docks To Desktops- Interview Irene Thomas with Nina Dawson </p>