<p>Front Seal Problem? Model T Ford Forum: Forum (old): By Ed Keller (Edpkeller) on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 02:23 am: </p><p>Hi, I'm also a new guy at this hobby. My wife bought a '24 fordor for my BD and I've been having the time of my life driving it and of course working on it for the past 6 or 7 months. Besides a myriad of things that need help,(most relatively minor) my attention has been focused on persistent oil on the fan belt and pullys. I suspect it is a front seal leak although there doesn't seem to be excessive drips on the floor pan in that area. Is there a relatively easy fix for a front seal or does that require something more extensive? Thanks for any help you can privide. </p><p>By Dave Huson (Modelt12) on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 11:31 am: </p><p>Ed: </p><p>Welcome to the world of Model Ts. </p><p>Look very close and see if the oil leak is from your crankshaft or the cam shaft. I would guess that over 50% of front oil leaks are from the cam shaft. If the leak is from the crankshaft shaft the only way I know to stop it is to remove the motor and polish or put a quick sleeve on the part where the seal touches. You then can install a modern seal, I believe that it is CR 11740. Since the seal is smaller than the old rope seals or the new felt seals you must build a pretty high base of something like number one or number two permatex under the seal. Pulling the motor is a lot work as you can guess. I think I would live with the leak for awhile, unless it is leaking awfully bad. If the leak is from the cam shaft, that is easy. Just remove your timer including roller and then remove your camshaft lock nut #3050B that holds the camshaft gear to the camshaft. BE SURE TO POLISH the cam gear lock nut (throw it away if its pitted or worn too badly). Then get a modern Seal # CR 9878 and fit it on the camshaft gear lock nut. Its a good idea to locktite the outside of the seal to the camshaft gear front cover because sometimes they spin in side the cover and will soon develope a leak between the cam gear cover and the ouside of the seal. Also after you install the modern seal be sure to throw the brass washer away that used to hold the old felt seal against the lock nut. All the brass washer ever did was cause shorts. </p><p>By Ed Keller (Edpkeller) on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 05:25 pm: </p><p>Dave, Thanks so much for all the good information. I checked it out today and it looks like (unfortunately) the leak is from the crankshaft. However, since the leak is not bad it's still a little difficult to determine exactly where it's coming from. I'm not sure where to check for the cam shaft leak. Do I need to remove the timer to see if it's there or is there some other tell- tale place to look? Sorry if that sounds stupid but without a lot of experience - oh well. Any how, if it does turn out to be the crankshaft I think I'll take your advice and catch it at a latter time. Thanks again. </p><p>By Ken Swan (Kswan) on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Ed, We take all inquiries seriously. Even though some of the answers you may receive causes me to cringe, all are well intended I feel very certain. This is not a toy you are having fun with although we like to think of it that way. It is an automobile in every pure sense of the way, therefore all bearings, attachments, fittings, etc need to be the best quality materials and workmanship needs to be the finest that can be provided if you expect to drive it safely and protect your loved ones as well as your investment. If you are not certain STOP! There can be very serious consiquences if everything is not up to snuff. </p><p>There are about three major sources for you oily looking belt, Dave has described two of the most common and most likely. The third is the fan hub bearing weeping small amounts of grease from the back side of the hub bearing. Grease will bleed from the bearing in small strings and globlets and it will fall directly onto the lower crank shaft pulley and find its way all over your belt and underside of your hood. There are remedies for that. </p><p>What weight oil are you using? Some of the modern multigrade oils will tend to slide by some of the old worn T gasketing. If that is the case you are experiencing the true essence of a T! T Models are like dogs they have to mark their spots whenever they stop. Look at the positive side, as long as oil is coming out that means some has been in the engine/transmission. Therefore, check the engine every time you drive it. Make an unbreakable habit of it, you'll never regret it. A quart of oil right now is less than $2.00, an new engine (rebuilt of course) is over $3,000.00. </p><p>Treat the T better than you would your Caddy, Lexus, or Mercedes, it much more fun to drive. Besides the more you drive it the better it will run and the better it runs the more you will want to drive it. Good Luck, Ken Swan </p><p>By Ed Keller (Edpkeller) on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 03:24 am: </p><p>Ken, Thanks for your advice. I appreciate and certainly understand and agree with your admonition. I didn't mean to sound as if I was trivializing the importance of quality workmanship but only that I didn't know where to look for the indications of a leak from the cam shaft. I just wanted to make sure the simpler things were checked out first (cam shaft leak and now the fan hub bearing) before tackling a crankshaft problem. I'll check on the fan hub bearing and let you know what I find. I've been using 10W30 Weight oil and I know what you mean about T's marking their spot. Thanks for your input. </p><p>By Ken Swan (Kswan) on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:02 am: </p><p>Ed, there is one other possibility and you don't even want to think about correcting that unless you pull the engine. The bridge or front end of the oil pan where the crank shaft actually sits or rides is brazed to the oil pan itself. That can crack or break over the years and oil will seep under it into the sump area where the lower pully resides. Usually that just results in a dripping of oil and not getting onto the fan belt. I have to agree with Dave in his assessment in that the most oil will be coming from the cam shaft seal (which is relatively easy to fix). I wouldn't worry about real small leaks, it is just the nature of the beast and keeps you busy cleaning the garage floor or driveway. Good Luck, Ken Swan By Dave Huson (Modelt12) on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 07:12 pm: </p><p>Ed: </p><p>One other place that oil can leak and I forgot about it. Many years ago I had a leak in the bottom end of my outside oiler and that oil ended up in the area of the lower pully. </p><p>By Ed Keller (Edpkeller) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 01:24 am: </p><p>Dave and Ken, Thanks for your interest in my issue. I think you hit on the problem. I checked the fan hub bearing and sure enough there was quite a bit of grease oozing from the back of the hub. Also I can see where it is being thrown on the lower water pump hose near the radiator and that appears to be grease not oil. That probably explains why I don't see an exsessive amount of oil drops on the floor pan. I also checked the bottom end of my outside oiler but I don't think that was the problem. It was a little wet so I tightened the connector. There didn't appear to be enough oil there to get all over the lower pulley. So, besides cleaning it up, what else needs to be done? Ken, you mentioned there were remedies for the fan hub bearing. </p><p>By Ken Swan (Kswan) on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 06:22 pm: </p><p>Ed, first I would take the hub off and take it apart. This means, of course the fan blades need to be removed also. That is not a difficult. Then dismantle the hub which basically is taking the pin out of the hub and taking the hub itself apart from the block that holds it to the fan, Clean all that built up gunk out with kerosene and carburetor cleaner until it is spotless inside. Put the pin back through the bronze bushings and see how much wobble appears. In all likelyhood there will be a little wobble even if the bushings are in good condition. Then apply some red & tacky grease in to it. I have found that red & tacky will not migrate quite so badly as other greases. </p><p>The bronze bushing can be easly replaced. However if the bolt is badly worn, that will also need to be replaced. </p><p>There are replacement modern bearings that are available through the many T parts suppliers. You will also find a replacement spool hub assembly from Texas T Parts. I am a purist so I stick with the old original bronze bushings and just occasionally swab out the cavity with Q-tips and toilet tissue. Try not to over fill the bearing when greasing. Let us know what you find. Ken Swan </p>