HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―29 June 1983 1017 OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 29 June 1983 The Council met at half past two o’clock PRESENT HIS EXCELLENCY THE GOVERNOR (PRESIDENT) SIR EDWARD YOUDE, G.C.M.G., M.B.E. THE HONOURABLE THE CHIEF SECRETARY SIR CHARLES PHILIP HADDON-CAVE, K.B.E., C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY SIR JOHN HENRY BREMRIDGE, K.B.E. THE HONOURABLE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MR. MICHAEL DAVID THOMAS, Q.C. THE HONOURABLE THE SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS MR. DENIS CAMPBELL BRAY, C.M.G., C.V.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ROGERIO HYNDMAN LOBO, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DAVID AKERS-JONES, C.M.G., J.P. SECRETARY FOR DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE DAVID WYLIE MCDONALD, C.M.G., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LANDS AND WORKS DR. THE HONOURABLE HARRY FANG SIN-YANG, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LO TAK-SHING, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRANCIS YUAN-HAO TIEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH WALLIS JOSEPH TOPLEY, C.M.G., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER THE HONOURABLE ALEX WU SHU-CHIH, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEN SHOU-LUM, O.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE HENRY HU HUNG-LICK, O.B.E., J.P. THE REVD. THE HONOURABLE PATRICK TERENCE MCGOVERN, O.B.E., S.J., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN JAMES SCOTT, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT THE HONOURABLE PETER C. WONG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG LAM, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES YEUNG SIU-CHO, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JOHN MARTIN ROWLANDS, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE THE HONOURABLE JAMES NEIL HENDERSON, O.B.E., J.P. COMMISSIONER FOR LABOUR THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW SO KWOK-WING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE GERALD PAUL NAZARETH, O.B.E., Q.C., J.P. LAW DRAFTSMAN 1018 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―29 June 1983 THE HONOURABLE HU FA-KUANG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG PO-YAN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE DONALD LIAO POON-HUAI, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOUSING THE HONOURABLE WILLIAM CHARLES LANGDON BROWN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-CHUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE COLVYN HUGH HAYE, C.B.E., J.P. DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN CHEONG KAM-CHUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG YAN-LUNG, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS. SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, J.P. THE HONOURABLE IAN FRANCIS CLUNY MACPHERSON, O.B.E., J.P. REGIONAL SECRETARY (NEW TERRITORIES), CITY AND NEW TERRITORIES ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE MARIA TAM WAI-CHU, J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE HENRIETTA IP MAN-HING THE HONOURABLE PIERS JACOBS, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES THE HONOURABLE DAVID GREGORY JEAFFRESON, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY THE HONOURABLE JOHN WALTER CHAMBERS, J.P. DIRECTOR OF SOCIAL WELFARE THE HONOURABLE HENRY CHING, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE THE HONOURABLE LAWRENCE WILLIAM ROBERT MILLS, J.P. REGIONAL SECRETARY (HONG KONG AND KOWLOON), CITY AND NEW TERRITORIES ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE JUSTIN YUE KWOK-HUNG, M.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY (Acting) DR. THE HONOURABLE LAM SIM-FOOK, O.B.E., J.P. DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL AND HEALTH SERVICES (Acting) ABSENT THE REVD. THE HONOURABLE JOYCE MARY BENNETT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LYDIA DUNN, C.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE RAYSON LISUNG HUANG, C.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE HO KAM-FAI, O.B.E., J.P. DR. THE HONOURABLE JOHN MORRISON RIDDELL-SWAN, O.B.E., J.P. DIRECTOR OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES THE HONOURABLE JOHN JOSEPH SWAINE, O.B.E., Q.C., J.P. IN ATTENDANCE THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MRS. JENNIE CHOK PANG YUEN-YEE HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―29 June 1983 1019 Papers The following papers were laid pursuant to Standing Order 14(2):― Subject L.N. No. Subsidiary Legislation: Public Health (Animals and Birds) Ordinance. Regulation of Movement of Dogs (No. 2) Order 1983 ................................. 190 Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance. Specification of Public Office....................................................................... 191 Education Ordinance. Education (Amendment) Regulations 1983 .................................................. 192 Road Traffic Ordinance. Road Traffic (Construction and Use) (Amendment) Regulations 1983........ 193 Road Traffic Ordinance. Road Traffic (Protective Equipment) (Amendment) Regulations 1983........ 194 Evidence Ordinance. Evidence (Authorized Persons) (Consolidation) (Amendment) Order 1983. 195 Stock Exchanges Unification Ordinance. Stock Exchanges Unification (Extension of Period) Order 1983.................. 196 Small Claims Tribunal Ordinance. Small Claims Tribunal (Suitors’ Funds) (Amendment) Rules 1983 ............. 197 Revised Edition of the Laws Ordinance 1965. Annual Revision 1982 .................................................................................. 198 Tramway Ordinance. Tramway Ordinance (Alteration of Fares) Notice 1983 ............................... 199 Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) (Amendment) (No. 2) Ordinance 1981. Landlord and Tenant (Consolidation) (Amendment) (No. 2) Ordinance 1981 (Commencement) Notice 1983 ............................................................ 200 Public Health (Animals and Birds) Ordinance. Regulation of Movement of Dogs (No. 3) Order 1983 ................................. 201 Insurance Companies Ordinance 1983. Insurance Companies (Register of Insurers) (Prescribed Fee) Regulations 1983.............................................................................................................. 202 1020 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―29 June 1983 Subject L.N. No. Insurance Companies Ordinance 1983. Insurance Companies Ordinance 1983 (Commencement) Notice 1983......... 203 Interpretation and General Clauses Ordinance. Specification of Public Office........................................................................ 204 Evidence Ordinance. Evidence (Authorized Persons) (No. 5) Order 1983 ...................................... 205 Public Health and Urban Services Ordinance. Public Health and Urban Services (Designation of Libraries) (No. 2) Order 1983............................................................................................................... 206 Message from Mr. Richard LUCE, M.P. (See Appendix) Use of Putonghua in Legislative Council 1. MR. ALEX WU asked:―Will Government consider amending Standing Orders to enable Putonghua to be used in this Chamber? THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―Sir, I think the first point I should make, Sir, is that by virtue of Article 23 of the Royal Instructions it is this Council which makes the Standing Orders which regulate the proceedings of this Council. It would be, therefore, a matter for this Council to amend the relevant Standing Order to permit Putonghua to be used. At present Standing Order 2(1) specifies that a Member may address the Council in either English or Cantonese. This dates from an amendment made in 1971 following a recommendation in the First Report of the Chinese Language Committee chaired by Sir Kenneth FUNG Ping- fan. The argument in support of this recommendation was quite simple: the use of Cantonese with English would enable ‘non-English speaking members of the public to comprehend the proceedings of (the Council)’. The Committee considered whether Cantonese alone, Cantonese and Mandarin (Putonghua), or Mandarin alone should be adopted. On the basis that Cantonese was the usual language of the overwhelming majority of Hong Kong people, and that an even greater number understood Cantonese, the Committee concluded ‘that Cantonese would at the present moment have more relevance and reality for the population as a whole ... and that interpretation facilities ... should be confined to English and Cantonese only’. The Committee went on to say that the possibility of introducing Mandarin ‘in years to come’ should be kept under review. We have not, to my personal knowledge, formally reviewed the position, since 1971. Perhaps we should do so HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL―29 June 1983 1021 now and I shall consult with the Senior Member. One possibility would be to form an ad hoc group of Official and Unofficial Members to consider whether Standing Order 2(1) should be amended and the practical implications of doing so. This ad hoc group could include Members of the UMELCO Chinese Language Policy Panel. MR. ALEX WU:―Sir, may I enquire what would be the other possibilities and when would the ad hoc group be formed? THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―I am not absolutely certain, Sir, what Mr. WU means by the other possibilities. If he means other combinations, clearly it is difficult to imagine our dispensing with English or Cantonese so I imagine the most likely outcome, if the use of Putonghua is to be seriously considered, would be English, Cantonese and Putonghua which would require a three-way simultaneous interpretation; and that I must confess would involve some difficulty because our existing team of 14 full and part-time simultaneous interpreters are fairly streched and only three or four, I believe, can speak Putonghua fluently. We have had some difficulty in recent years in recruiting interpreters. There is also the further point, I suppose I should add, that in these premises it would be difficult perhaps to fit in additional simultaneous interpretation facilities for technical reasons and therefore any change might―I am only saying might― have to await a move to our new premises. MR. ALEX WU:―I was actually referring to the last paragraph of the Chief Secretary’s reply which said ‘one possibility’. May I now ask the Chief Secretary to answer the second part of my question: when would the ad hoc group be formed? THE CHIEF SECRETARY:―Obviously if we are to make amendments to Standing Orders then Members of this Council must be consulted, and I think that could best be done through an ad hoc group. I cannot possibly answer when the ad hoc group would be convened because that would have to be a matter for agreement between the Official side and Mr. LOBO as Senior Unofficial Member. Registration under the Business Registration Ordinance 2. DR. IP asked:―Are persons offering private tuition in, say, painting, music, dancing and academic subjects in their own homes and who charge fees, required to register under the Business Registration Ordinance? THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY:―Yes, Sir.