The American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews The Museum of Flight Seattle, Washington Edward V. “Eddie” Rickenbacker (Part 1 of 2) Interviewed by: Eugene A. Valencia, M. Jones, and others Interview Date: May 28, 1966 2 Abstract: In this two-part oral history, fighter ace Edward V. “Eddie” Rickenbacker is interviewed about his life and his military service during World War I. In part one, he shares stories from his racing, military, and business careers. Topics discussed include his time with the 94th Aero Squadron in France, the evolution of aviation technology and aerial warfare, and stories about fellow servicemen and other colleagues. The interview is conducted by fighter ace Eugene A. Valencia, a woman identified in the container notes as M. Jones, and several other individuals. All speakers not identifiable as Valencia, Jones, or Rickenbacker are labeled as “unidentified.” Biography: Edward V. “Eddie” Rickenbacker was born on October 8, 1890 in Columbus, Ohio. When he joined the United States Army in 1917, he was already a well-known race car driver and, at 27 years of age, was older than most cadets entering the Air Service. Rickenbacker was deployed to France in June 1917 and served first at the 3rd Aviation Instruction Center in Issoudun before joining the 94th Aero Squadron. During his combat tour, he scored 26 aerial victories against aircraft and balloons, making him the top-scoring American fighter ace in the war. Rickenbacker left the military after World War I and embarked on a number of business ventures, including founding the Rickenbacker Motor Company and managing Eastern Air Lines. During World War II, he made several tours of military bases in support of the war effort. On one such tour in the South Pacific, he and the crew of a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress had to ditch the aircraft near Japanese-held islands. The group spent several weeks adrift at sea before being rescued. Rickenbacker passed away in 1973. Biographical information courtesy of: Boyce, Ward J., ed., American fighter aces album. Mesa, Ariz: American Fighter Aces Association, 1996. Restrictions: Permission to publish material from the American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Transcript: Transcribed by Pioneer Transcription Services 3 Index: Introduction ..................................................................................................................................... 4 Thoughts on the evolution of aviation technology and aerial warfare............................................ 5 World War I service, part one ......................................................................................................... 6 The future of aviation...................................................................................................................... 9 Current activities ........................................................................................................................... 10 Personal background and sociopolitical beliefs ............................................................................ 11 Casual conversation with others ................................................................................................... 14 Importance of teamwork ............................................................................................................... 15 Compiling materials for his memoir ............................................................................................. 17 Stories about licenses .................................................................................................................... 19 Racing career ................................................................................................................................ 21 Fighter pilot characteristics ........................................................................................................... 23 Memorable combat flights ............................................................................................................ 24 Good luck charms ......................................................................................................................... 26 Thoughts on German pilots ........................................................................................................... 27 Equipment challenges in wartime ................................................................................................. 28 4 Edward V. “Eddie” Rickenbacker (Part 1 of 2) [START OF INTERVIEW] 00:00:00 [Introduction] EDWARD V. RICKENBACKER: [audio distortion]—then broke a connecting rod. Out. UNITENIFIED MAN: How many miles or— EVR: It was a three-hundred-and-some mile race. UM: Where did they race? EVR: Oh, all over the hills out there. Up and down. Yeah. UM: What were you racing in? EUGENE A. VALENCIA: There it is right here. UM: Right. What kind of a car is that? EVR: Peugeot. French Peugeot. UM: Is that the same thing they call a Persho—or Peugeot today, that same make? EVR: Yeah. Yeah. Matter of fact, it’s still in business, but they— UM: Right. I think they’re making those [unintelligible 00:00:36] smaller. EVR: Yes. UM: Model cars, you know. EVR: Trick cars, they called them. UM: Have you spent much time in San Diego through your career? EVR: No, no, no. UM: Not too much, huh? Primarily— EVR: Well, I’ve been coming here off and on since 1909. UM: Because you said when you came here first in 1909, it was small town of 25,000. 5 00:00:55 EVR: Yeah. EAV: Captain, would you like some refreshments, sir? EVR: No. A Coca-Cola, if you’ve got one. Cold. [Thoughts on the evolution of aviation technology and aerial warfare] UM: Kind of warm, isn’t it? How would you—how would you compare the pilot of the first—of course, there is no comparison. That’s what [unintelligible 00:01:13]. The pilot of World War I, the fighter pilot of World War I, with the fighter pilot of today. EVR: Well, the— UM: Cite some of the differences. Of course, there are— EVR: Number one, there is a—the early days, planes only had about 120-mile-an-hour speed. You had to go downhill a little bit to get that. Then maneuvering was very practical, and it was an easy thing to do at that speed. Maneuverability was important because it was all out of doors—in a combat, they’re called dogfight. UM: Right. EVR: I got it. And then along came World War II. Speed had jumped, multiplied. Then there was the mass formations that they didn’t have in World War I— UM: Planes went out individually in World War I— EVR: Well, a lot of them did. I did a lot of that alone because I didn’t have the obligation of protecting a formation behind me. That’s always a hazard. But in World War II, Spitfires and whatnot, Messerschmitts came into their own. They were much faster and usually there was a limited amount of dogfighting. Very limited. Along came Korea, and they jumped to the point where the speed was so great all you could do was get a second or two sight and let go of the burst and go straight up or go straight down to get away. And today, you’ve got the speed doubled again over Korea and got so fast that they’d run into their own machine gun bullets. The velocity of the machine gun bullets weren’t as fast as the plane. So they had to get rid of the machine guns, and they are loaded at a nose full of rockets today. And they—in addition, you’ve got the fact that air-to-air missile that, once you get a radar on him, why, you don’t even see the enemies so far away, anywhere from—start shooting two to ten miles away. And that thing is acoustically—and heat. It picks up the heat of the other fellow 6 and runs into the tail skid, so to speak, into the tailpipe— 00:04:24 UM: How about the pilots themselves, their attitude— EVR: They don’t get a chance to see the other fellows. UM: Right. No, I mean the pilots of today compared with the early day pilots. I would gather that, when you were [unintelligible 00:04:35]— EVR: Well, that’s— UM: …you were a lot more loose than these guys are today. EVR: Your pilot today doesn’t see the results. He mostly [unintelligible 00:04:43] bombing into the jungle. They don’t know what they’re hitting and—there are no combat planes. If there were a lot of them, why, it would give the boys a chance to really go out and fight a combat in the air. But that isn’t—doesn’t exist, though it’s really a scientific artillery battle in the air, so to speak. About all there is. But as far as the pilots are concerned, why— UM: You said something— EVR: …they’re better today than they ever were because they got to be. UM: You said something in the car that interested me. You were talking about the instrumentation in the early planes. The altimeter that wasn’t worth a darn. The gas and oil meters were the only things that really— EVR: Really counted. Today you’ve got a cockpit full of hundreds of instruments, and you’ve got to be a scientist almost to be a pilot. Got to know what you’re doing. Otherwise—today a pilot’s—he wouldn’t go into war without 400 or 500 hours of training. [World War I service, part one] UM: How was it when you first started? How much— EVR: In World War I, I had 17 hours, and I was on the front with 35. [laughter] M. JONES: You were there with no gunners [unintelligible 00:06:12]. UM: Were you? EVR: Huh? 7 UM: Yes? UM: Was your first flight—combat flight without weapons, without a machine gun? EVR: Oh, no. No. We had machine gun to start with. The French and Germans didn’t have. They used rifles and dropped bombs