LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON LIBRARY ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION LBJ Library 2313 Red River Street Austin, Texas 78705 http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/biopage.asp HELEN THOMAS ORAL HISTORY, INTERVIEW I PREFERRED CITATION For Internet Copy: Transcript, Helen Thomas Oral History Interview I, 4/19/77, by Joe B. Frantz, Internet Copy, LBJ Library. For Electronic Copy on Compact Disc from the LBJ Library: Transcript, Helen Thomas Oral History Interview I, 4/19/77, by Joe B. Frantz, Electronic Copy, LBJ Library. INTERVIEW I DATE: April 19, 1977 INTERVIEWEE: HELEN THOMAS INTERVIEWER: Joe Frantz PLACE: Washington, D.C. Tape 1 of 1, Side 1 F: Let's very briefly get you to Washington. Tell me something about when you started. T: I was born in Winchester, Kentucky, lived [there] most of my growing years, and went to college at Wayne University in Detroit. Detroit is really--I still consider it home even though I came to Washington in World War II, 1942, and got a job as copy girl for the old Washington Daily News. I then went to UP--then United Press--worked as a radio writer for many years, and then started covering several departments-- F: Did you see--? T: --and then started covering the White House [at the] start of the Kennedy years, January 1961. F: When did you first come across the Johnsons personally? T: Personally? In the 1940s. F: In the 1940s? Him or her? T: Him. I had interviewed him as a congressman even before he became a senator, and-- F: Was it for a specific issue or just a general feature or what? T: I think it was--we had a feature called "Names in the News," and I interviewed him. T: Was this your idea, or was it assigned? T: No. Well, apparently he was making news--I can't remember the circumstances--but these were people who were spotlighted in a given news event [inaudible]. F: Yes. What were your first impressions? Thomas -- I -- 2 T: I thought that he was very outgoing, liked people-- F: He was in one of his good moods. T: Very. He was in one of his better moods, and I've seen them all, I guess. Yes. At that time, he was a congressman. He seemed to be full of himself, just filled with enthusiasms and energies that--you could tell he liked women. F: Did you get the feeling that he was trying to direct the interview? This is a complaint I've gotten from a lot of press, that they had the feeling that Johnson wanted to write all the copy. T: I think that later on, we learned that he not only wanted to direct the interview, he did want to write the story, and we do recall the time when he called up one of my colleagues in the middle of a bulletin and said, "You've got it all wrong." At that time, I didn't think of him in those terms. F: Yes. T: He was not the powerhouse-- F: It was a pleasant interview, and-- T: [Inaudible] F: --and I presume that from that time forward he remembered you. T: I don't know if he actually remembered me. I think I got better acquainted when he was the Senate majority leader, and I had become president of the Women's National Press Club. F: Yes. T: It's now the Washington Press Club. And so we entertained and would have the leadership as guests of honor and so forth, and so I got to know him better then. Of course, I had watched his career as a reporter. You could hardly not know who Johnson was. F: In your period, did they ever give Johnson one of those Gridiron Club sorts of roastings? Thomas -- I -- 3 T: We knew that he didn't like roastings very well, but we had a congressional dinner in 1960, and at that time--it was in January 1960, and it was, of course, before the convention in L.A., and we had a straw vote. F: But he wasn't running. T: No, he was running--well, he allegedly wasn't running, but it was between Johnson, Kennedy, Humphrey--I don't know who else was on that. F: Stevenson was a dark horse-- T: Stevenson, right. F: And Humphrey as well. T: But Johnson won the straw poll. Kennedy was very unhappy, of course. It was the congressional dinner gathering; it always marks the return of Congress and the congressmen and senators. But it showed his popularity with members of Congress-- F: And the poll was of congressmen? T: --that he was the best candidate to be president. F: Was much made of this? T: No, not really. F: He didn't pick it up and run with it? T: I'm sure it was pleasing to him. F: Helped the ego, of course. T: But Kennedy was well launched by then. F: Going back to that first interview, did you get the feeling you were looking at presidential material, or was this just another interesting congressman? T: He was an interesting congressman, all right, as far as I was concerned. I couldn't--later on, George Reedy had worked at the United Press, and I would hear his predictions that Johnson would become president. We kind of laughed. F: Was George pro-Johnson before he joined him-- Thomas -- I -- 4 T: Oh, yes. F: --or did all that devotion come after? T: All that came before. I think that's what led him into this path. He was devoted, totally devoted. F: Did you get the feeling that Johnson tried to capture certain newsmen? T: I felt that he always wanted to be understood and wanted to be loved. I know that's a cliché answer, but I think he really did, and he wanted to be personified, and he wanted to be in the newspapers in the right light, according to his view. So I think that the press was a transmission belt for him and a nemesis. F: Yes. Did he ever call you to come in on a story, or did you meet him in press conferences, as when you were covering the Senate? T: After he became a senator? No, I wasn't on the Hill. F: Did he play favorites in those days like he did later, where he would decide this was the right person and have them in and-- T: I'm sure he did. I know he was kind of hard on photographers and so forth, [he would] kick them out of his office. I'm sure he felt that certain reporters were [inaudible]-- F: I probably ought to ask if-- T: --but I don't think he gave too many scoops, per se. He so hoarded information; he didn't like anyone to know, even those who would be in his camp. F: Right. T: I don't think he had a [inaudible]-- F: It was hard to get him to admit it was a good day when it was. T: I don't think he was that generous even with William White and those. I'm sure he leaked stories at times. F: Yes. And it was a feeling among the press that he had a chance at the Democratic nomination in 1960? Thomas -- I -- 5 T: No. We knew--I mean, as far as I recollect; I can't speak for all of them. But I didn't think he had a chance at all. F: You could tell that the Kennedys had done their homework? T: He had four years of campaigning; he had it locked up. F: Did you go to Los Angeles? T: Yes. I did. F: Where were you when the word came through that Kennedy was naming Johnson? T: I think I was covering one of the first ladies at the time-- F: Yes. T: --and ran into Mrs. Johnson in the lobby, and--well, I guess this was the following day where she was taking Lynda and Luci out from the room. It was all over as far as [Lyndon?] was concerned. Well, it went like wildfire. It was kind of a surprise, really, because of the rivalry, and we also knew that LBJ didn't cherish the number-two spot. F: Right. T: Later he told the story so many times, about Sam Rayburn urging him not to take it, and the next day urging him to take it, and Johnson asked Rayburn, "What happened in the past twenty-four hours that made you change your mind? Only yesterday you were saying, 'Don't take it under any circumstances!'" And he always quoted Rayburn as saying, "I'm a much wiser man today." And I think in reality, it was politics. F: Did anyone ever ask Mr. Rayburn about that, that you know? T: No. I think that Johnson embellished a lot of stories, but I believe that one. F: What did you do during the campaign? T: I covered mainly the families in the 1960 campaign. F: Did you do that swing through the South with the Johnsons? T: No, I didn't. Like "What did Richard Nixon ever do for Culpepper?" No, I missed that one. Thomas -- I -- 6 F: Down in Texas, and they may have done this throughout the South, Eunice Shriver, I believe, maybe Pat Lawford came down, and they had teas with Lady Bird in various towns. Did you cover any of those? T: I went to some teas in the Washington area, but not those.