HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 3587 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 10 May 1995 The Council met at half-past Two o'clock PRESENT THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE SIR JOHN SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE SIR NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, K.B.E., J.P. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E. THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P. 3588 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E. THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 3589 THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN ABSENT THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI IN ATTENDANCE MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS MR GORDON SIU KWING-CHUE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR ECONOMIC SERVICES 3590 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 MR NICHOLAS NG WING-FUI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE MR PETER LAI HING-LING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY MR CANICE MAK CHUN-FONG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR PLANNING, ENVIRONMENT AND LANDS MR KWONG KI-CHI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG THE DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MR RAY CHAN YUM-MOU HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 3591 PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Official Languages (Alteration of Text) (Magistrates Ordinance) Order 1995........................................ 158/95 Pension Benefits Ordinance (Established Offices) Order ........................................................................................ 159/95 Official Languages (Authentic Chinese Text) (Magistrates Ordinance) Order................................................. (C)32/95 Sessional Papers 1994-95 No. 83 — Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee dated January 1995 No. 84 — Hospital Authority Annual Report 1993-94 No. 85 — Statement of Accounts of the Samaritan Fund No. 86 — Report of the Special Meetings of the Finance Committee on the Draft Estimates of Expenditure 1995-96 ADDRESSES Government Minute in response to the Report of the Public Accounts Committee dated January 1995 CHIEF SECRETARY: Mr President, laid on the table today is the Government Minute responding to Report No. 23 of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). The Minute sets out the measures the Government has taken, or is planning to take, on the conclusions and recommendations contained in the Report. It also seeks to elucidate the Government's position on matters arising from previous PAC reports on which the Committee has made further comments, and where appropriate, updates progress on those matters. 3592 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 The Honourable Peter WONG, Chairman of the PAC, spoke in this Council on 15 February 1995 when tabling the Report. I would like to respond to some of the points he made. The first issue addressed by Mr WONG in his speech relates to the "sale of a commercial site in Garden Road" covered in PAC Report No. 21A. In the Government Minute dated 12 October 1994, we have already presented clearly the findings and analysis leading to our conclusion that, in that particular case, there is no evidence to substantiate any act of misconduct which would warrant disciplinary proceedings. The Committee has expressed its concern that our conclusion will send out a message that if there is no evidence of "bad faith", an officer's wrongdoing of whatever degree of blame will always be tolerated. This is certainly not our intention. We take the question of accountability very seriously and the Committee is aware that we have carried out an extensive investigation into the case. I regret that our conclusion does not appear to be acceptable to the Committee. As in any organization, we in the Civil Service have to give our officers a certain degree of discretion to enable decisions to be taken efficiently, and at the level most appropriate to the case. There will inevitably be occasions when a judgement is made which, with hindsight, may not be considered the best or the most appropriate. However, such "imperfect" judgement does not, and should not, of itself amount to misconduct which warrants disciplinary action. To do otherwise would adversely affect the decision-making mechanism and, in turn, civil service efficiency. Mr WONG also highlighted the Committee's concern that a number of the situations which attracted the Director of Audit's criticism have been caused, at least partly, by the problem of insufficient information provided to the Executive Council, the Legislative Council or the Housing Authority. I would like to assure Members that we always aim to provide full and accurate information to the two Councils. And I am sure this wish is shared by our colleagues who service the Housing Authority. But Members will appreciate that deciding how much information is sufficient and whether the information is relevant for inclusion in a paper must largely be a matter of judgement. It is not something on which we can lay hard and fast rules. Under our system, Honourable Members have the right to question officials and to ask for any additional information necessary for their consideration of a proposal, and we have always responded to these as best we can. That said, let me reassure Members that we note the Committee's concern on the matter, and we will do our best to provide adequate information in our submissions to facilitate the two Council's consideration of our proposals. We are pleased to learn that the Committee appreciates the efforts we have made to improve the presentation of financial and performance information to Members. The answer to the question of "adequacy and quality HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 10 May 1995 3593 of financial and performance information provided by the Government to the Legislative Council" is one of balance. A balance between the need, on the one hand, to provide Members with the information necessary to enable them to monitor the efficiency and effectiveness with which Government uses the funds approved by the legislature; and on the other hand, not to burden Members with too many facts and figures. In preparing the Draft Estimates for 1995-96, and the submissions to the Finance Committee and its subcommittees, we have already implemented many of the recommendations contained in the Director of Audit's Report. I trust Members have found these changes useful. The form and content of the Government's financial and performance reporting to Members is subject to a process of change and evolution. Let me assure Members that the Administration is committed to the ongoing development and refinement of performance measures to assist Members to fulfil their function of monitoring the Government's use of resources. Mr President, the Administration is as keen as the PAC to ensure proper and efficient management of its financial affairs and appreciates fully the importance of the Committee's findings and recommendations.