PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 4 – INDUSTRY Friday 13 September 2019 Examination of proposed expenditure for the portfolio areas REGIONAL NEW SOUTH WALES, INDUSTRY AND TRADE CORRECTED The Committee met at 9:30 am MEMBERS The Hon. Mark Banasiak (Chair) Ms Abigail Boyd The Hon. Lou Amato The Hon. Catherine Cusack Mr Justin Field The Hon. John Graham The Hon. Emma Hurst (Deputy Chair) The Hon. Trevor Khan The Hon. Taylor Martin Mr David Shoebridge The Hon. Mick Veitch PRESENT The Hon. John Barilaro, The Minister for Regional New South Wales, Industry and Trade CORRECTIONS TO TRANSCRIPT OF COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS Corrections should be marked on a photocopy of the proof and forwarded to: Budget Estimates secretariat Room 812 Parliament House Macquarie Street SYDNEY NSW 2000 Friday, 13 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 1 The CHAIR: Welcome to the public hearing for the inquiry into budget estimates 2019-2020. Before I commence I would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people, who are the traditional custodians of this land. I would also like to pay respect to the elders past and present of the Eora nation and extend that respect to other Aboriginals present. I welcome Deputy Premier John Barilaro and his accompanying officials to this hearing. Today the Committee will examine the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Regional New South Wales, Industry and Trade. Today's hearing is open to the public and is being broadcast live via the Parliament's website. In accordance with broadcasting guidelines, while members of the media may film or record Committee members and witnesses, people in the public gallery should not be the primary focus of any filming or photography. I also remind media representatives that you must take responsibility for what you publish about the Committee's proceedings. The guidelines for the broadcast of proceedings are available from the secretariat. All witnesses in budget estimates have a right to procedural fairness according to the procedural fairness resolution adopted by this House in 2018. There may be some questions that a witness could only answer if they had more time or with certain documents to hand. In these circumstances witnesses are advised that they can take the question on notice and provide an answer within 21 days. Any messages from advisers or members' staff seated in the public gallery should be delivered through the Committee secretariat. Deputy Premier, I remind you and your officers accompanying you that you are free to pass notes and refer directly to your advisers seated at the tables behind you. Transcripts of this hearing will be available on the website from tomorrow morning. Finally, could everyone please turn their mobile phones to silent for the duration of this hearing. All witnesses from departments, statutory bodies or corporations will be sworn prior to giving evidence. Deputy Premier, I remind you that you do not need to be sworn as you have already sworn an oath to your office as a member of Parliament. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 4 - INDUSTRY Friday, 13 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 2 JIM BETTS, Secretary, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, on former oath MICHAEL PRATT, AM, Secretary, NSW Treasury, sworn and examined MICHAEL WRIGHT, Deputy Secretary, Resources and Geoscience, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, affirmed and examined SCOTT HANSEN, Director General, Primary Industries, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, on former oath CHRIS HANGER, Acting Deputy Secretary, Regional NSW, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, affirmed and examined GARY BARNES, Coordinator General, Regions, Industry, Agriculture and Resources, Department of Planning, Industry and Environment, on former oath KYLIE BELL, Executive Director, Industry Trade and Investment, NSW Treasury, affirmed and examined ANTHONY KEON, Executive Director, NSW Resources Regulator, affirmed and examined NICK ROBERTS, Chief Executive Officer, Forestry Corporation, sworn and examined The CHAIR: I now declare the proposed expenditure for the portfolio of Regional New South Wales, Industry and Trade open for examination. Questions on this portfolio will begin at 9.30 a.m. and all witnesses, including the Deputy Premier, will be questioned in this morning's session. After lunch we will continue questioning government witnesses; the Deputy Premier will not be questioned in the afternoon and evening sessions. There is no provision for any witness to make an opening statement before the Committee commences questioning. We will begin with questions from the Opposition. The Hon. MICK VEITCH: Thank you and welcome on Black Friday, Deputy Premier, to this budget estimates hearing. Deputy Premier, as this first series of questions is to you in your capacity as Deputy Premier, how important is the New South Wales ministerial code of conduct? Mr JOHN BARILARO: Thank you, Mr Veitch. While we know public sentiment towards politicians and government has probably been at the lowest in many years, I think the shenanigans of parties, what we are seeing played out in the public domain at the moment, and I am not going to get into the detail on any of that, the ministerial code of conduct is important. It is important and we sign up for it. I know I have been previously questioned about it. As of my best knowledge, like other Ministers, I would hope you use every endeavour to make sure that you follow the code. The Hon. MICK VEITCH: Have you satisfied yourself that all of the National Party Ministers have met their responsibilities under the ministerial code of conduct? Mr JOHN BARILARO: That is always the big question but you would have to accept that those Ministers take the code seriously, that they apply the code and that they of course disclose everything and abide by the code. I would hope that is the case but I cannot sit here and say I know 100 per cent. I do not think anybody in this place can guarantee 100 per cent for anybody else. The Hon. MICK VEITCH: Have you reminded them of their obligations under the ministerial code? Mr JOHN BARILARO: Well, look, I— The Hon. MICK VEITCH: This is just the National Party Ministers, by the way. Mr JOHN BARILARO: My Ministers, we meet, we talk about a number of issues but I would expect them to understand their role as a Minister and the appropriate code. The Hon. MICK VEITCH: Did you have consultations or conversations with the Premier yesterday prior to the announcement being made about the investigation into Minister Sidoti? Mr JOHN BARILARO: No, not at all. The Premier and I spent the previous day on the road touring those fire-ravaged regions and those drought-ravaged regions but the Premier and I had no discussions yesterday. The Hon. MICK VEITCH: Do you think Minister Sidoti has done the right thing or should he step aside? The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: Point of order— The CHAIR: I will hear the point of order. PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE NO. 4 - INDUSTRY Friday, 13 September 2019 Legislative Council Page 3 The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: My point of order, and I have given some latitude up to this point, is that there is an obligation that falls on all of us to ask questions that are relevant, particularly to the portfolio. I would suggest that this is well and truly outside that scope. The Hon. MICK VEITCH: To the point of order: I think it is important that the Deputy Premier, the second most senior politician in this State, has the opportunity to put on the record his views around the ministerial code of conduct and its importance. So that is what I am doing. The Hon. TREVOR KHAN: And I have allowed that. I did not take a point of order about that but you are straying beyond that to other matters. I would suggest, Chair, that we have gone now too far. The CHAIR: Hearing both sides, I would just ask the Hon. Mick Veitch to be careful with his wording of any further questions regarding the ministerial code of conduct. Mr JOHN BARILARO: Can I say, Mr Veitch, at the end of the day I would hope to believe that every Minister abides by the code, fills in their pecuniary interests and reports everything that is accepted or expected from members of Parliament and Ministers. The issue here, this debate, the judgement on Mr Sidoti is being played out in the public domain and not always does the truth reach the public. I have been in the middle of this myself previously with accusations of my pecuniary interests or if I have met the code and in the end, of course, been cleared. It is not for me to judge. The Premier has now said there will be a review. Let's let the review pursue the truth and hopefully come back with an answer for all because it is important to the public to have trust in their officials. The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM: Thank you, Minister Barilaro. I do not want to get your title wrong. You said you would ask your party Executive whether you should retain the title of Deputy Premier. What did they have to say? Mr JOHN BARILARO: The point that I made in a speech to Inverell at a conference in the National Party heartland—you know yourself, Mr Graham, that when you are speaking to your branch members there is an expectation that you fight for them and I am a proud Nat. I am a proud Nat. I know I have been accused of being a Lib in the past— The Hon. JOHN GRAHAM: But you do not object to being called Deputy Premier at this point. Mr JOHN BARILARO: Can I say that the title is irrelevant.