The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project ALBERT A. THIBAULT, JR. Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: April 18, 2005 Copyright 2007 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Born in Massachusetts; raised in New England and Canada French secondary education University of Windsor (Canada); University of Toronto; University of Pennsylvania Marriage Entered the Foreign Service in 1969 Research Fellow, Indian School of International Studies Conakry, Guinea; Political/Economic Officer 1969-1971 Political situation President Ahmed Sekou Toure Soviet influence French Relations Environment Economy Portuguese invasion US interests Security Colombo, Ceylon (Sri Lanka); Political/Labor Officer 1972-1975 Trade Union movement AFL/CIO interests Communist influence Mrs. Sirimavo Bandaranaike Political Parties Tamil issue Nationalizations India relations Environment State Department; Iran Desk Officer 1975 1 State Department; Desk Officer for Sri Lanka and Maldives 1975-1978 And Desk Officer for India “Zone of Peace” US Navy interests US-India relations Indian nuclear program India Politics Prime Minister Desai State Department, FSI; Hindi language training 1978-1979 New Delhi, India; Political Officer 1979-1983 Prime Minister Indira. Gandhi Soviet invasion of Afghanistan US Teheran Embassy takeover Visa issues Communists Relations Tamil/Sikh relations Nuclear reactors Pakistan/India relations Karachi, Pakistan; Deputy Principal Officer 1983-1986 Political reporting Mohammed Ali Jinnah Ethnic tensions Commerce Consular operations Iran The Bhuttos Relations with the Embassy Afghan refugees Military control Environment US/Pakistan relations Terrorist actions Lahore, Pakistan; Principal Officer 1986-1988 Politics Muslim League President Zia Environment Family Visas Kashmiris 2 Katmandu, Nepal; Deputy Chief of Mission 1988-1991 US Ambassadors Religion Military Environment Royal family Peace Corps AID program Government India relations China relations Tibetan refugees American hippies American citizen consular services Marxists State Department; Directorate for Refugee Programs 1991-1993 Europe, Near East, South Asia and Latin America Afghan refugees Kurdish exodus Balkan issues Non-Government Organizations (NGOs) UNWRA and the Middle East Regional problems US Mission to the United Nations; Advisor for South Asia 1993-1994 Madeleine Albright Mission organization State Department; Board of Examiners, (Oral portion) 1994 Scoring candidates Minority applicants State Department, FSI; Arabic language studies 1994-1995 Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; Political Counselor/DCM 1995-2000 Relations Saudi importance to US Human Rights Saudi preference for political ambassadors US military missions Operation Southern Watch Balkan problems Saudi customs Royal family 3 Terrorist attack on Khobar Towers Bin Laden and al-Qaeda Mecca and Medina Population growth Societal changes Foreigners Iran influence Security Saudi government US business community Environment Social life Foreign work force Fundamentalism Media Saudi nationals involved in 9/11 Visa problems Visa Viper list Saudi students to US New Delhi, India; Deputy Chief of Mission 2000-2003 India’s nuclear device Relations with Prime Minister Vajpayee US Ambassadors Economy Changes since earlier assignment Ambassador Robert Blackwill Pakistan relations Islamic terrorists Terrorist attack on Indian Parliament Indo-Pak Kashmir crisis Embassy evacuation Indian government response to 9/11 Iraq War China Indian-American community Retirement 2003 INTERVIEW Q: To begin, when and where were you born? THIBAULT: I was born in Boston, Massachusetts on August 5, 1941. 4 Q: Well, let’s get a little on the family. On your father’s side, what do you know about them? THIBAULT: On my father’s side they are of French Canadian background, in Quebec since the mid-17th century. My grandfather came to the United States in the late 1880's, moving south, not too far from where he grew up, into Maine and then finally going to Lawrence, Massachusetts where he set up a very successful photography business in the early years of the twentieth century. My grandmother on my father’s side was also from Quebec. My father was born in 1909, and in 1931 graduated from Boston College where he majored in French literature. He spent a number of years in France in the 1930’s as an English teacher and as a graduate student at the Sorbonne, also studying French literature, where he received his "License", a French degree. These years were a fascinating time for him, as each summer he traveled widely as a guide, observing first-hand Mussolini's Italy and Nazism in Germany. In France he also met my mother, whose name was Mary Marshall, from New York City, and who was studying French in Paris at the time. Her family had been in New York for several generations, having originally come from Ireland in the mid-nineteenth century. They left France at the advice of the American Embassy on September 1, 1939. It was a good time to get out. They sailed from Cherbourg and were married in 1940. My father enrolled at Harvard for further graduate work, which is why I was born in Boston, and then later taught at the Tilton School, a prep school in New Hampshire. During World War II he was a civilian employee of the Army coordinating logistics at the Port of Boston. Because he spoke several languages, he also interviewed enemy prisoners of war. In 1945, we moved to Bliss, Idaho, where Dad was superintendent of schools and my mother taught math and science. Q: Had your mother gone to college? THIBAULT: Yes, she was a graduate of St. Joseph's College for Women in Brooklyn, New York, and from there then went to Catholic University here in Washington for her masters degree in French. And that’s what prompted her then to go to France in order to perfect her speaking, which is how she met my father. After returning to the U.S., and prior to her marriage, she taught at St. Mary's College in South Bend, Indiana, the women's college for Notre Dame University. But in 1945 they headed out to Idaho. As I said, my father was superintendent of schools there, in a potato growing town in southern Idaho and they stayed there for a couple of years, but Dad always wanted to teach at the college level. When an offer came from the University of Connecticut we moved to Storrs, Connecticut. Then when I was seven we moved to Quebec City, Canada, where he taught at Laval University, which is a French language university in Quebec City. It was sort of carrying coals to Newcastle: to bring an American to teach French literature in Quebec City. But for me, in retrospect, it was great. I didn’t know any French before that, but I went to school in French from the age of seven through the age of eleven. I received a very solid grounding in French grammar, composition, and the fundamentals of the language which have stood me in very good stead to this day. I am totally bilingual. Q: As a kid, growing up, before you went to Quebec, how Quebecois was the family? I 5 mean, was there any carryover, the ties from your grandfather? . THIBAULT: My grandfather had died before my birth, long before. I never knew him. We moved around, as I’ve just described. So I can’t really say. Q: So, anyway, it wasn’t a predominant influence. THIBAULT: I grew up in a very Francophile environment, but my parents focused on France, which they resumed visiting as early as 1950 or ’51 and then traveled to almost every year starting in the late 1950's. The first language I learned actually was French. My mother spoke as fluently as my father. When we moved to Idaho I completely forgot it. They don’t speak much French out there. So it’s hard for me to judge, it’s so long ago. And I’m not sure what Quebecois influence is, ‘til we actually went to Quebec. Q: You were there from what year to what year? THIBAULT: In Quebec City? Let’s see. From 1949 to 1954, I guess. Q: Were you considered an American at the school? Were you sort of tagged as the American? THIBAULT: Oh, yes, in part because of the school I attended. It wasn’t merely the school, although I remember arriving not knowing much French at all and then later being congratulated for rapid proficiency. They had an annual school event, something called distribution des prix, the distribution of prizes, at the end of the first year, when I was in the third grade. I received a special prize for my proficiency in French. But it was playing in the street, more than anything else, with other kids who never let me forget that I was American. We always spoke English at home so that we wouldn’t forget our English. Oh, yes, I was very well aware. And my parents and all my relatives were Americans, and we would visit them in New York regularly. So we were very aware of our American nationality. In fact, that was significant ultimately in my decision to apply for the Foreign Service. Q: How about the Catholic Church? How did that play in your family? THIBAULT: Well, we were and are Catholic. It was a very strong influence. My father is still living, he’s 95. My mother died many years ago. So it was a very formative influence in my upbringing, is the way I would put it. Q: When you were in Quebec, Quebec City, did you feel the pressure of the church or the influence of the church there, because the church had been so influential in Quebec? THIBAULT: Well, there was influence. Pressure is too strong a term. And it was a different age, a different era, in those days but its influence was very strong, very pervasive, as I look back.