COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA Official Committee Hansard HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES STANDING COMMITTEE ON ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER AFFAIRS Reference: Capacity building in Indigenous communities WEDNESDAY, 27 NOVEMBER 2002 DARWIN BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES INTERNET The Proof and Official Hansard transcripts of Senate committee hearings, some House of Representatives committee hearings and some joint com- mittee hearings are available on the Internet. Some House of Representa- tives committees and some joint committees make available only Official Hansard transcripts. The Internet address is: http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard To search the parliamentary database, go to: http://search.aph.gov.au HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES STANDING COMMITTEE ON ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER AFFAIRS Wednesday, 27 November 2002 Members: Mr Wakelin (Chair), Mr Danby, Mrs Draper, Mr Haase, Ms Hoare, Mrs Hull, Dr Lawrence, Mr Lloyd, Mr Snowdon and Mr Tollner. Members in attendance: Ms Hoare, Mr Lloyd, Mr Snowdon, Mr Tollner and Mr Wakelin. Terms of reference for the inquiry: To inquire into and report on: Strategies to assist Aboriginals and Torres Strait Islanders better manage the delivery of services within their communities. In particular, the committee will consider building the capacities of: (a) community members to better support families, community organisations and representative councils so as to deliver the best outcomes for individuals, families and communities; (b) Indigenous organisations to better deliver and influence the delivery of services in the most effective, efficient and accountable way; and (c) government agencies so that policy direction and management structures will improve individual and community outcomes for Indigenous people. WITNESSES ARBON, Ms Veronica May, Director, Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education..............261 ATKINSON, Mr Peter Colin, Manager, Game Development, Australian Football League, Northern Territory Pty Ltd..........................................................................................................................272 BEGGS, Mr Duncan Robert, Community Relations Manager, ADrail...................................................272 BURR BURR, Mr Timothy, Member, Perron Island Enterprise Aboriginal Corporation ...................228 CLEARY, Ms Jennifer, Assistant Secretary, Community Health, Aboriginal Health and Hospital Services...........................................................................................................................................................175 COLES, Mr David, Executive Director, Local Government and Regional Development......................175 COLLINS, The Hon. Bob (Private capacity)..............................................................................................167 DILLON, Mr Michael Campion, Chief Executive, Department of Community Development, Sport and Cultural Affairs ...........................................................................................................................175 FULLER, Dr Don Edwin, Head, School of Business Economics, Flinders University ...........................200 HILL, Mr Kim, Commissioner, North Zone, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission ......209 KUNOTH-MONKS, Mrs Rosalie Lynette, Deputy Chairperson, Batchelor Institute of Indigenous Tertiary Education....................................................................................................................261 MANNING, Mr Rollo, Tiwi Health Board Trust.......................................................................................227 McMILLAN, Mr Stuart John, Administration Manager, Educator, Aboriginal Resource and Development Services Inc.............................................................................................................................235 MOFFAT, Mr Victor Andrew, Chairperson, Perron Island Enterprise Aboriginal Corporation........228 NIKOLAKIS, Mr William, Economic Consultant, Perron Island Enterprise Aboriginal Corporation................................................................................................................................................... 228 SMALLACOMBE, Ms Sonia Ann, Associate Dean, School of General Studies, Faculty of Indigenous Research and Education, Centre for Indigenous Natural and Cultural Resource Management, Northern Territory University............................................................................................ 219 SMITH, Mr Douglas Alan, Assistant Commissioner Operations Command, Northern Territory Police, Fire and Emergency Services .......................................................................................................... 175 TAPSELL, Mr Tony Francis, Chief Executive Officer, Local Government Association of the Northern Territory....................................................................................................................................... 194 TRUDGEN, Mr Richard Ian, Business Manager, Public Officer, Aboriginal Resource and Development Services Inc. ........................................................................................................................... 235 WEBB, Ms Phillipa Jane, Assistant Director, Client Services, Northern Territory Library and Information Services .................................................................................................................................... 175 WESTBURY, Mr Neil, Director, Office of Indigenous Policy, Department of the Chief Minister....... 175 WHITEHEAD, Dr Peter, Director, Australian Research Council Key Centre for Tropical Wildlife Management, Northern Territory University ............................................................................. 249 Wednesday, 27 November 2002 REPS ATSIA 167 Committee met at 8.04 a.m. COLLINS, The Hon. Bob (Private capacity) CHAIR—I welcome the Hon. Bob Collins, who has a CV longer than I have time to read out, and thank Bob for giving his time today. The inquiry is to do with things that you know a lot about, and have had a fair bit to do with, particularly your recent review of the education system. Earlier we were at Maningrida and they spoke well of you. Mr Collins—That is nice to hear. CHAIR—Could we kick off with a few comments about education, what you found and how you saw it. I will leave it to you. Mr Collins—Most of what I need to say is contained between the covers of the report. It is not yet an ancient document. So, rather than concentrate too much on that, I will simply make the point that, historically, not a lot of attention was paid to low outcomes from remote communities in the Northern Territory. It was very much a case of ‘out of sight, out of mind’. There was, historically, also strong resistance to having accountability in that respect in terms of having it tested. I personally had a number of very energetic debates with people on that subject over the years. I do concede that there are valid concerns about the misuse of educational statistics such as MAP tests. I make this point as a parent, apart from anything else, with young kids—all of whom are still in the education system and none of whom show the slightest interest in leaving home, but I live in hope—that MAP tests are a long way from being the be- all and the end-all of the test of an educational system. I do want to say categorically that, particularly after the refinements that have been made to them, MAP tests are a reasonable indicator of minimum standards in literacy and numeracy. They are a useful diagnostic tool for teachers, in particular, and for parents, but I see their principal use as being by schools themselves to indicate when kids have got problems that need particular help. If you go to any urban school, in the city—Parap primary or any of the schools in Darwin— you would expect to get around 85 per cent of kids achieving grade-for-age in their MAP tests. The last MAP test results from one major region in the Northern Territory was two per cent. That is of the kids who are enrolled, and there is a significant proportion as yet—not completely determined—of under-enrolment. So it is a pretty grim picture in terms of the achievement of minimum educational standards. I have said this for a very long time—people are sick and tired of hearing me say it, and I do apologise to those in the room who have heard me say it a million times before. The review came to the conclusion—certainly it is my own view—that every Australian, irrespective of their ethnic background, needs as a minimum year 7 literacy and numeracy. That is the last year of primary school. You have no hope of having any degree of control over you own life if you have not got that minimum standard. It does not matter who you are or what your background is. Thousands of Aboriginal kids are leaving the school system hopelessly ill-equipped at year 7. As it is with all kids, the further they get behind, the further they get behind. By the time they struggle through to year 7, very large numbers of them simply give up. It is all over the top of their heads. People have been saying to me in this place for 30 years that it is going to take ABORIGINAL AND TORRES STRAIT ISLANDER AFFAIRS ATSIA 168 REPS Wednesday, 27 November 2002 another generation. What keeps me awake at night is that the MAP test results that I have just given you are the next generation. They are the year 3 reading results from one major region. So that sets the stage for how grim it all is. On the positive