Second Session - Thirty-Sixth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources Chairperson Mr. Frank Pitura Constituency ofMorris Vol. XLVI No.5- 6:30p.m., Tuesday, October 29, 1996 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Sixth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation Name Coostltnrnq P.ar4 ASHTON, Steve Thompson N.D.P. BARRETT, Becky Wellington N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise, Hon. Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Rob lin-Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary Concordia N.D.P. DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden P.C. DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside P.C. ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood P.C. EVANS, Clif Interlake N.D.P. EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East N.D.P. FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo P.C. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield P.C. FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley N.D.P. GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KOWALSKI, Gary The Maples Lib. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATH LIN, Oscar The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord St. Johns N.D.P. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek P.C. McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane Osborne N.D.P. MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia P.C. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn St. James N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East P.C. NEWMAN, David Riel P.C. PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Portage Ia Prairie P.C. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet P.C. RADCLIFFE. Mike River Heights P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack, Hon. Niakwa P.C. RENDER, Shirley St. Vital P.C. ROBINSON, Eric Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Gladstone P.C. SALE, Tim Crescentwood N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Broadway N.D.P. STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin N.D.P. SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye P.C. TOEWS, Vic, Hon. Rossmere P.C. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. VODREY, Rosemary, Hon. Fort Garry P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosano Swan River N.D.P. 101 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC UTILITIES AND NATURAL RESOURCES Tuesday, October 29,1996 TIME- 6:30 p.m. Mr. Sel Burrows, Private Citizen Mr. RodFritz, President, International Brotherhood of LOCATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba Electrical Workers, Local435 Mr. Lance Norman, Manitoba Chamber of Commerce CHAIRPERSON- Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris) Ms. Mary Pankiw, President, Manitoba Society of Seniors VICE-CHAIRPERSON - Mr. Gerry McAlpine Ms. Emile Clune, Private Citizen (Sturgeon Creek) Ms. Holly Cain, Private Citizen ATTENDANCE -10- QUORUM - 6 WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS: Members ofthe Committee present: Mr. Bud Shiaro, Selkirk, Manitoba Ms. Paula Mallea, Brandon Committee, Save Our Hon. Messrs. Cummings, Ernst, Findlay, Hon. Mrs. Telephone System Mitchelson Mr. John Nicol, President, Union of Manitoba Municipalities Messrs. Ashton, Dewar, McAlpine, Pitura, Sale, Mr. Ron Rudiak, Retiree, MTS Tweed Mr. William Sharpe, Steinbach, Manitoba Mr. Eduard Hiebert, St. Francois Xavier, Manitoba WITNESSES: Mr. Ross C. Martin, President, Brandon & District Labour Council, CLC Mrs. Theresa Ducharme, People in Equal Participation Ms. Martha Owen Inc. Ms. Winnie M. Chanas Mr. Bud Shiaro, Private Citizen Ms. Maggie Hadfield, Communications, Energy and Ms. Shelly Blanco, Private Citizen Paperworkers Union of Canada, Local 55 Ms. Paula Mallea, Save Our Telephone System Ms. Mary Pankiw, President, Manitoba Society of Mr. AI Mackling, Private Citizen Seniors, 'Inc: Mr. John Nicol, President, Union of Manitoba Municipalities MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: Mr. Ron Rudiak, Private Citizen Mr. William Sharpe, Private Citizen Bill 67-The Manitoba Telephone System Mr. Eduard Hiebert, Private Citizen Reorganization and Consequential Amendments Act Mr. Ross Martin, President, Brandon & District Labour Council, CLC * * * Ms. Martha Owen, Private Citizen Mr. Garth Minish, Private Citizen Mr. Chairperson: Good evening. Will the Standing Ms. Connie Gretsinger, Private Citizen Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources Ms. Karen Minish, Private Citizen please cometo order. The business before the committee Ms. Gail Cherpako, Private Citizen this evening is the consideration of Bill 67, The Ms. Emile Clune, Private Citizen Manitoba Telephone System Reorganization and Ms. Maggie Hadfield, Communications, Energy and Consequential Amendments Act. Paperworkers Union of Canada, Local 55 Ms. Debbie Maruntz, Communications, Energy and At this point, I would like to inform the public that Paperworkers Union of Canada, Local 7 subsequent meetings have been called to hear public 102 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 29, 1996 presentations on and for the consideration of Bill 67. is demonstrated by the number of out-of-town presenters Following tonightand tomorrow night's meetings at 6:30 listed. Given thefact that rural and northern Manitoba is p.m., meetings have been scheduled for Thursday, going to be very directly affected by this sale if the October 31 at 9 a.m. and then another meeting on the governmentpushes it through, we feel that this committee same day at 6:30p.m. Following that, ifnecessary, on shouldnot only hold hearings here at the Legislature but Friday,November 1 at9 a.m. I will repeat those dates so throughout rural and northern Manitoba. that you can write them down: Thursday, October31 at 9 a.m.; then another meeting on the same day at 6:30 I can indicate to you that I have talked to people p.m.; following that, if necessary, on Friday, November throughout Manitoba who have indicated they would 1 at 9 a.m. make a presentation ifhearings were held in their own community. I was in Brandon on the weekend; I was in All the meetings will be in this room, No. 254. The Portage yesterday. There were a number of people I notice for these meetings is posted on the board outside spoke to there who said they would register to make a the committee room and on the notice boards outside the presentation, but they could not make it into Winnipeg. Legislative Chamber. In the case of Thompson, I know there are many people whowould liketomake a presentation, but it is an eight­ Before continuing on with the consideration of the bill, hourdrive. Given the weather conditions, I do not think there are certain matters regarding process to clarify at even eighthours would be an appropriate amount of time thispoint Forthe committee's and public's information, to have in that case. thereare currently 212 persons registered to speak to Bill 67. A list of the presenters should be before all I believe, given the historic nature of this particular committee members as well as posted at the back of the bill, thatwe need to do what we have done, what we will room. be doing, for example, in the Child Advocate, what the government has done with various committees of For the public's information, if there is anyone present appointed backbenchers travelling around the province this evening who wishes to appear before the committee on various different issues. I think we should do the and has not yet registered, you may register with the appropriate thing and that is have hearings on Bill 67 Chamber staff at the back of the room, and your name throughout rural and northern Manitoba. That is why I will be added to the list. move thatconunittee this urge the provincial government to hold hearings oo Bill 67 throughout rural and northern Interms of the order that we will hear presenters, there Manitoba. are currently48 persons registered to speak who are from out of town. They are indicated as such by the asterisks Mr. Chairpenon: I have received the motion, and it is after their name on the list. It has been a Manitoba in order. practice to hear from persons who are from out of town first as a matter of courtesy for the distance that they have Motion presented. travelled. How doesthe committee wish to proceed? Do you want to hear from allthe out-of-town presenters first? Mr. Chairperson: Discussion on the motion? Mr. Steve Ashton (fhompson): I have a motion that is Don. Jim Ernst (Minister of Consumer and relevant to out-of-town presenters. Perhaps I might move Corporate Affain): Firstly, for the edification of this at this point in time and perhaps we can deal with members of the public ifno one else, the fact is that the that. Manitoba Legislature is the only Legislature in Canada that has public hearings on its bills after second reading Mr. Chairperson: Okay. to allow for the input of the public. As the government House leader, I have today called a number of committee Mr. Ashton: Yes, we have stated in terms of the meetings so that we can accommodate the 212 people particular interest of many people in rural and northern ·who wish to make representation to this committee, but Manitoba on this particular bill, something that I believe I cannot concur with my honourable colleague from October 29, 1996 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OFMANITOBA 103 Thompson that the committee should be travelling bankers from Bay Street in Toronto, Ontario, made the throughout the province. That has not been done in the decision within two days of receiving that report and are past with respect to legislative committee hearings. We now saying, on the most fundamental process we have in have provided, we hope, sufficient opportunity for thisLegislature, with the only chance that the public has everyone to be heard through the calling of a nwnber of to have input on this, that they will not hold rural and meetings for consideration of presentations on this bill.