LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON LAW AMENDMENTS Thursday, March 1, 1990 TIME- 8 p.m. Bill No. 70-The Provincial Court Amendment Act LOCATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba Bill No. 71-The Law Society Amendment Act (2) CHAIRMAN- Mr. Helmut Pankratz (L a Verendrye) ATTENDANCE - 11- QUORUM - 6 Members of the Committee present: Hon. Messrs. Connery, Cummings, Downey, * (2005) McCrae Messrs. Edwards, Kozak, Maloway, Minenko, Mr. Chairman: The Committee on Law Amendments Pankratz, Roch, Storie is called to order. We will be reviewing Bill No. 6, The Law Reform Commission Act; Bill No. 39, The Human WITNESSES: Tissue Amendment Act; Bill No. 40, The Land Surveyors 65, Mr. Michael Guardian, Private Citizen Amendment Act; Bill No. The Fatality Inquiries Act; Bill No. 66, The Summary Convictions Amendment Act; Mr. Alex Gauer, The Association of Manitoba Bill No. 68, The Court of Appeal Amendment Act; Bill Land Surveyors No. 69, The Law Society Amendment Act; Bill No. 70, Mr. Bill McKenzie, Association of Professional The Provincial Court Amendment Act; and Bill No. 71, Engineers of Manitoba The Law Society Amendment Act (2). Mr. Me! Craven, Manitoba Association of lt is our custom to hear briefs before consideration Architects of all the Bills. What is the will of the committee? Mr. Mr. Bernie Smith, Manitoba Society of Minister. Certified Engineering Te chnicians and Te chnologists Inc. (MANSCETT) Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney Mr. Tim Stratton, Association of Consulting General): Mr. Chairman, I would ask the indulgence Engineers of Manitoba of the committee that we deal first with Bill 65, The Mr. Sheldon Pinx, Canadian Bar Association Fatality Inquiries Act, that we hear the presenter, who (Manitoba Section) may or may not be here, on that Act and then deal with the Act clause by clause so that we can Mr. George Orle, Manitoba Bar Association accommodate Dr. Markesteyn, the Chief Medical Written Presentations Submitted: Examiner for the Province of Manitoba, who has other matters to attend to. If I could have the indulgence of Mr. John E. Leech, Applied Science the committee for that, it would be much appreciated. Technologists and Te chnicians of British Columbia Mr. Chairman: Would the committee agree to that? Mr. C. Charles Brimley, CET, Executive Agreed? Agreed. Director, Canadian Council of Te chnicians and Te chnologists We will start with Bill No. 65. Is it also the will of the committee, after that, that we will hear all presenters Mr. Rick Chale, F.W. Sawatzky (Western) Ltd. and all Bills before we will go over the Bills clause by APPEARI NG: clause? Is that agreed? Agreed. Dr. Peter Markesteyn, Chief Medical Examiner BILL NO. 65-THE FATALITY MATTERS UNDER DISCUSSION: INQUIRIES ACT Bill No. 6-The Law Reform Commission Act Mr. Chairman: Bill No. 65, The Fatality Inquiries Act. Bill No. 39-The Human Tissue Amendment Mr. Michael Guardian. Is Mr. Michael Guardian here? Act Yes. Mr. Guardian, do you have a written presentation? Bill No. 40-The Land Surveyors Amendment Act Mr. Michael Guardian (Private Citizen): No, I have Bill No. 65-The Fatality Inquiries Act the notes but I was just going to give it orally, basically, because it is fairly straightforward. Bill No. 66- The Summary Convictions Amendment Act Mr. Chairman: That is fine, very good. Excuse me, Mr. Bill No. 68-The Court of Appeal Amendment Kozak. Act Bill No. 69-The Law Society Amendment Mr. Richard Kozak (Transcona): There is no need, Act Mr. Chairman, thank you. 209 Thursday, March 1, 1990 Mr. Chairman: Okay, Mr. Guardian, you may proceed. anybody else that would like to make a presentation to Bill No. 65? If not, then it was agreed by committee * (2010) that we would cover the Bill clause by clause at this point Mr. Minister. Mr. Guardian: Thank you. Basically, as I understand it, Bill 65 will help deal with negligence and the now Hon. James McCrae (Minister of Justice and Attorney unreported deaths and causes of deaths in Manitoba. General): Mr. Chairman, I might tell the Members of The Bill will help us to protect the old and the young. the committee that Legislative Counsel have brought lt will improve the accuracy of statistics used for policy with them tonight a half-dozen amendments dealing decisions and preventative measures. with correcting of cross references, consequential amendments, spelling mistakes, those types of things, I am the author of the original Bill C-43. That Bill so I will be moving those as we go along. concerns negligence, self-defence, abortion, eugenics and is based on my life. I know that the documentation Mr. Chairman: Thank you. Then we will proceed clause required for Bill 65 will prevent the types of situations by clause. Clause 1-Mr. Minister. that inspired me to design C-43. Bill 65 is a filter and is complementary to Bill C-43. Mr. McCrae: Mr. Chairman, I move Prior to my birth, I suffered eye damage requiring THAT the definition of "inquiry report" in section 1 be about $5,000 of corrective surgery, in today's dollars. amended by striking out "subsection 7(4)" and I was supposedly put into cardiac arrest at this time. substituting "subsection 7(5)". The doctor misused the forceps to cause the damage. I was also born by caesarean. The woman doctor who (French version) delivered me was said to have killed one child and was suspected to have killed three others. When caught, 11 est propose que la definition de "rapport d'enquete" she cracked up and had to be institutionalized. figurant a !'article 1 soit amendee par remplacement de "7(4)" par "7(5)". The hospital concerned was Lions Gate Hospital in North Vancouver. This hospital serves the richest part Mr. McCrae: I can tell Honourable Members that this of Canada, which is actually West Vancouver. amendment would correct a cross-reference. Our country has been hurt. Bill 65 would help filter Mr. Chairman: out such incompetence. If the Bill is passed, I hope Shall the amendment pass-(pass). you will suggest the Bill to be adopted in other Clause 1, as amended, in English and French-(pass). provinces. lt actually, in my opinion, is a landmark. Mr. Edwards. Recently, the Free Press covered a story of a child Mr. Paul Ed wards (St. James): Thank you, Mr. dying after eye surgery. The anesthetics were suspected, Chairperson. I just have one question with respect to but I saw no conclusion reported anyway. Yo u may find the definition "manner of death." In the explanatory the following account relevant. At about the age of comment that I have, it indicates that by proposed seven and a half, I was to have a tonsil operation. I Clause 3(2)(a) investigators would not have the authority was not under when the doctors at Lions Gate Hospital to determine manner of death. started the operation. When a nurse noticed I was not I am not an expert in this area. Do investigators now under, the doctor said, give him another dose. I have that authority? Is this the effect of this Bill, to managed to count to 34 in two counts of 20 between take away that authority from investigators as opposed when they first noticed and when they decided to give to a medical examiner, him/herself? me the second dose. Basically the anesthetic shock stopped my heart I Mr. McCrae: Mr. Chairman, with the indulgence of the am fairly active and have had physicals and a committee, I would ask Dr. Markesteyn to answer. He cardiogram. I know that I have no measurable has been working on this legislation for a good long aftereffects other than a deep disgust for medical time. incompetence. The child in the case mentioned is gone, but the records exist. Dr. Peter H. Markesteyn (Chief Medical Examiner): The determination of the manner and cause of death If we can understand what happened in the past is a medical matter. The investigators are paramedical through the documentation of the medical records, we personnel and therefore do not overstep their authority can make things better for the future, including dealing by determining cause and manner of death. That is with the families that have to deal with the aftereffects. within the realm of the medical examiner. If we can reduce the guessing about the causes of deaths, we can prevent deaths to a greater degree. Mr. Edwards: For clarification then, at present they We could also reduce negligence. I am in favour of the do not have that power. We are not taking it away; we amendments to The Fatality Inquiries Act in Bill 65. are just clarifying that they do not have it. Is that right? Thank you. Dr. Markesteyn: That is correct. Yes. * (2015) Mr. Chairman: Clause 1, as amended, in English and Mr. Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Guardian. Any questions in French-pass; Clause 2-pass; Clause 3-pass; to Mr. Guardian? No questions. Thank you. Is there Clause 4-pass; Clause 5-pass. 210 Thursday, March 1, 1990 Clause 6-Mr. Edwards. Mr. Chairman: The amendment to Clause 11(1)(a)­ pass; Clause 11 as amended-pass; Clause 12-pass; Mr. Edwards: Again, I am sorry. I have a question. it Clause 13-pass. may relate perhaps more to Clause 5, but is more for Clause 14-Mr. Edwards. clarification. I wonder if Dr. Markesteyn could tell us with respect Mr. Edwards: Again, for Dr. Markesteyn, 14(2) to reporting deaths and in particular 6(1), a person who indicates: ". a medical examiner shall not express is a witness to or has knowledge of a death shall an opinion with respect to culpability in such manner immediately report the death to a medical examiner.