Funding for the Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program NEA Jazz Master interview was provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. GERALD WILSON NEA Jazz Master (1990) Interviewee: Gerald Wilson (September 4, 1918 – September 8, 2014) Interviewer: Anthony Brown with recording engineer Ken Kimery Date: February 15, 2010 Repository: Archives Center, National Museum of American History Description: Transcript, 59 pp. Brown: Today is Monday, February 15th 2010. We are conducting the Smithsonian National Endowment for the Arts Oral History Interview with composer, arranger, trumpeter, band leader and elder statesman of the fine art form of jazz, Gerald Wilson in – not far from his home – in Los Angeles, California. A beautiful sunny day, and we have with us Gerald Wilson in person and – vivacious as ever – good afternoon, Mr. Wilson. Wilson: Good afternoon to you, Anthony. Brown: Oh, thank you. So, this is being conducted by Anthony Brown and Ken Kimery. And um, as I was telling you just a year ago, we were here, literally here, uh, interviewing Snooky Young, because he had been honored with the Jazz Masters – NEA Jazz Masters Award, which you presented to him at the awards ceremony, correct? Wilson: Yes, that’s correct. Brown: So, when we were conducting the interview he was talking about the good old days, and of course you came up quite often in his interview. As a matter of fact he was talking about, “Well fellas, we gotta end this interview ‘cause I gotta go practice ‘cause I gotta go work with Gerald Wilson’s band!” So here you are, 91 years old. You’ve played with virtually everybody who’s of any great importance in this art form and you are still continuing to create music. So For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 1 let’s talk about your band. You have a band here in Los Angeles, a band in New York, but Snooky plays in your LA band, is that correct? Wilson: Yes, Snooky plays in my LA band and of course Snooky plays with the – all the bands that are in town [laughs] everybody wants Snooky in their band. And rightly so, because he’s actually – Snooky’s one of the greatest lead trumpet – jazz lead trumpet players that I’ve ever met. He’s fabulous, a fabulous young trumpet player… Brown: Young trumpet player… [Laughs] Wilson: …Yeah because when I met him, and I just have to say this, I joined the band that he was in – Chic Carter’s band, I’m sure he mentioned Chic Carter’s band. And uh, the night I joined them in Saginaw, Michigan, um, I was amazed when this little guy who weighed about 120 pounds at the most went out on the floor to do a special number, and after he finished playing this solo, to end it up he ended up on a double B-flat and just held it as long as you wanted him to hold it. I had never met a young trumpet player so well equipped, um, with the trumpet as Snooky was. Brown: Now you said he was, um, an exceptional lead trumpet player. You as a trumpet player, what is it that makes a lead trumpet player exceptional? Wilson: Well in the first place, the lead trumpet player has to have a great embouchure, that is, great range on the trumpet – he has to be able to play because all of the lead is always higher than all the second, third or fourth trumpets. So, you gotta really have a great range to play. Also, your intonation is another thing that’s so very important. Snooky has that too. In fact, he just has everything that goes with playing the trumpet. He’s a wonderful trumpet player. As you know, you couldn’t possibly stay on the Tonight Show for 30 years unless you’re really somebody, you know… Brown: …right… Wilson: …and he – he did exactly that. Brown: Mm-hm. So, let’s talk about, um, your bands. Now, you’ve had a band here in Los Angeles since 1944 off and on but you started your first band in mid 1940s… Wilson: 1944, actually. Brown: Mhm. Wilson: November of 1944. I’ll tell you how this happened. That was my – my ambition was to be a band leader, I wanted to be a band leader. And um, I would do things that a band leader has For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 2 to do, you know, I would um, try to remember the music and, and I have to know the things so I could tell all of the guys, so I just studied real hard about being – being a leader. Um, the band that I had um, was just – fell into my lap. I was rehearsing a band that a great – one of our greatest vocalists ever in the world who was featured with Duke for many years, I’m talking about Herb Jeffries. Herb Jeffries was gonna front a van, and we were gonna go on this brand new club on Los Angeles Street and um, first street in Los Angeles. And um, so I had plenty of music, so Herb said, “Gerald, put a band together for me.” He was gonna front the band and everyting. I say, “OK fine, that’s good.” So I got the band together, selected all of the people who would be in the band, and then I rehearsed them – and getting them ready for it. But about um, a couple of days before we were to open, herb got a job in Paris, I understand, and he left. So the owner and the booker for the – for the club said, “Well Gerald” he says uh, “You’re going to have to take over the band.” So I said, “Well, that was my life’s ambition” and it just dropped in my lap. [Laughs] Brown: And you’ve been carrying it in your lap ever since. So now you got two bands… Wilson: Yeah. Brown: You got the LA band – talk a little bit more about the LA band. I know you’re still active Wilson: Yeah, well, listen, you know I’d like to tell you just a little bit about that first band… Brown: Okay. Wilson: …Okay. We opened up at Chef’s playhouse, this is a big club downtown. We played down in the room where they had big shows – had chorus girls and acts and singers alike. And then up in the lounge - they had a lounge which was upstairs, Ed Heywood’s famous group was playing up there. Ed Heywood was one of the greatest jazz musicians ever, and his group was one of the finest groups. So he was upstairs. So we played there, my band was very good right from the beginning, it was good. And we played the Orpheum Theater, we played all of the big places that you could play here in Los Angeles. And then we took off to Salt Lake City. I had played there with Jimmie Lunceford’s band at the Rainbow – not the rainbow rendezvous, but the Jay Jones rendezvous. He hired me there for 13 weeks. We stayed 13 weeks in Salt Lake City. We went directly from salt lake city to Boise, Idaho where we stayed in the ballroom there for two weeks, then we wandered to St. Louis, Missouri. We played in a place called Jordan Chambers’ Riveria Club. This was a big night club, it held about 1200 people could get in there. It had big shows and everything. I played there with my band on that trip, and um went right from there to Chicago and then got to Chicago and were bogged down for a moment. You’re supposed to have your contracts in to the union in Chicago, um I think it’s two weeks before you come in to town, and I didn’t have that. So I – the job – I was supposed to go on at the Rumboogie Club in Chicago. I had to give that up, so I had a couple of – few weeks off, and For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] 3 while I was there, I met an old friend of mine named Rochester, who was with the Jack Benny Show, and he liked me, and he liked my band and he said, “Don’t worry about anything, Gerald, we’ll straighten you out.” So he gives me money to take my band on back to Los Angeles. So we went on back to LA, okay. Then we started out again and we come back. This time, everything was cool because I opened at the Apollo Theater in 1946, April the 12th. And I followed Duke Ellington in the Apollo, and Jimmie Lunceford’s band followed me! Now I had been with Jimmie Lunceford’s band. And by the way, at this time – by this time, Snooky, who had been with Count Basie’s band – he quit Count Basie’s band to join my band! [laughs] Brown: [laughs] Wilson: So Sweet – Sweets Edison asked Snooky, said, “You gon’ – You gonna leave Count Basie’s band to join Gerald Wilson’s band?” Snooky said, “Yeah” [Laughs] So Snooky joins my band and we – but we had a going – by the way, I’m sorry I don’t have the first records we made at that time, and you’ll see why I said that, because my band was powerful.