COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOUSE GAME AND FISHERIES COMMITTEE NORTH OFFICE BUILDING HEARING ROOM 1 HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA THURSDAY, MAY 24, 2007 9:00 A.M. BEFORE: HONORABLE EDWARD G. STABACK, CHAIRMAN HONORABLE SAM ROHRER HONORABLE BRYAN CUTLER HONORABLE GORDON DENLINGER HONORABLE GARTH D. EVERETT HONORABLE KEITH GILLESPIE HONORABLE NEAL GOODMAN HONORABLE GARY HALUSKA HONORABLE JOHN HORNAMAN HONORABLE ROB KAUFFMAN HONORABLE MARK K. KELLER HONORABLE DEBERAH KULA 2 1 (CONT'D) 2 HONORABLE DAVID R. MILLARD 3 HONORABLE DAN MOUL HONORABLE SCOTT PERRY 4 HONORABLE HARRY READSHAW HONORABLE TODD ROCK 5 HONORABLE CHRIS SAINATO HONORABLE DAN A. SURRA 6 7 ALSO PRESENT: 8 STEVE MCMULLEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR (D) 9 CHARLES T. MILLER, RESEARCH ANALYST 10 11 BRENDA S. HAMILTON, RPR REPORTER - NOTARY PUBLIC 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX 2 NAME PAGE 3 HON. ROBERT GODSHALL 6 4 MR. TOM MARSHALL 29 5 MR. BRYON SHISSLER 65 6 DIRECTOR CALVIN DUBROCK 77 7 ACTING DIRECTOR RICHARD PALMER 90 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 CHAIRMAN STABACK: Okay. The hour of 3 nine o'clock having arrived, I'd like to call 4 the hearing of the Game and Fisheries 5 Committee to order. We thank the members and 6 guests for their attendance. 7 At the outset, I'd like the members 8 to introduce themselves, if they will, telling 9 us the district that they represent. I will 10 start that out. 11 My name is Ed Staback, and I 12 represent portions of Lackwanna and southern 13 Wayne County up in the northeast. I'm 14 starting at my far left. 15 REPRESENTATIVE HORNAMAN: 16 Representative Hornaman, Erie County. 17 REPRESENTATIVE READSHAW: Harry 18 Readshaw, Allegheny County. 19 REPRESENTATIVE HALUSKA: Gary Haluska 20 from Cambria County. 21 REPRESENTATIVE GOODMAN: Neal 22 Goodman, Schuylkill County. 23 REPRESENTATIVE MOUL: Dan Moul, Adams 24 and Franklin. 25 REPRESENTATIVE SURRA: Dan Surra from 5 1 Elk and Clearfield. 2 REPRESENTATIVE GILLESPIE: Good 3 morning. Keith Gillespie, York County. 4 REPRESENTATIVE EVERETT: Garth 5 Everett, Lycoming County. 6 REPRESENTATIVE ROCK: Todd Rock, 7 Franklin County. 8 REPRESENTATIVE KULA: Deberah Kula, 9 Fayette and a portion of Westmoreland County. 10 REPRESENTATIVE KAUFFMAN: Rob 11 Kauffman, Franklin and Cumberland Counties. 12 REPRESENTATIVE CUTLER: Bryan Cutler, 13 southern Lancaster County. 14 REPRESENTATIVE PERRY: Good morning. 15 Scott Perry. 16 REPRESENTATIVE MILLARD: David 17 Millard, Columbia County. 18 REPRESENTATIVE SAINATO: Chris 19 Sainato, Lawrence and a small section of 20 Beaver County. 21 CHAIRMAN STABACK: Okay. This 22 morning we need to accept testimony on House 23 Bill 251, prime sponsored by Representative 24 Bob Godshall who is here today to offer 25 testimony on this bill and has been invited to 6 1 join the Committee afterwards to listen to 2 other presentations and to ask questions as he 3 sees fit. 4 Representative Godshall's bill amends 5 Title 34 and addresses hunting near feeding 6 stations, specifically prohibiting any hunting 7 within 150-yard distance of such areas. 8 There is a similar bill in our 9 Committee as well sponsored by a member of the 10 Committee, who is here today I believe, 11 Representative Gordon Denlinger. If he is not 12 here, he will be shortly. 13 That legislation, House Bill 881, is 14 identical to House Bill 251 except the yardage 15 it uses is one hundred. 16 With that I will turn the mike over 17 to Representative Godshall for his description 18 of his legislation and his testimony. 19 Representative Godshall, when you're 20 ready. 21 REPRESENTATIVE GODSHALL: Thank you 22 very much, Chairman Staback, and committee 23 members for taking the time to conduct a 24 hearing on House Bill 251. 25 I am happy to note that this bill 7 1 quite specifically would prohibit hunting 2 within 150 yard of game feeding area and, 3 therefore, defining a much needed specific 4 distance from where feeding -- from such 5 feeding areas so hunters will finally know 6 whether they're hunting legally or illegally. 7 This legislation would also provide 8 that movement through a feeding area or past a 9 feeder to an area outside of the 150-yard 10 parameter would not be construed as an illegal 11 hunting activity and place the onus of proof 12 of violation on the Game Commission. 13 I had a case, which involved my 14 brother actually, of three people walking down 15 a road to -- going back to the house for lunch 16 past the feeder, and they were all arrested 17 for hunting in a baited area. And they were 18 traveling back for lunch to their camp 19 together in a group. 20 As an avid sportsman, I've been 21 involved with this issue for more than two 22 decades. In 1985, when we recodified the Game 23 Laws I inserted into the legislation a measure 24 that is similar to House Bill 251. All but 25 one member of the committee, the Game and Fish 8 1 Committee, supported the measure. 2 Later I agreed to the Game 3 Commission's request to withdraw the amendment 4 with its assurances that the Commission would 5 clean up its act with regard to enforcing the 6 feeder violations and act with discretion. 7 Discretion was their word. 8 Obviously, the Game Commission did 9 not adhere to that commitment or we would not 10 be here today discussing the matter. 11 The phrase in and around can be 12 interpreted many different ways. 13 In many more -- in my more than two 14 decades as a state representative, I've often 15 heard a bill referred to as common sense 16 legislation. Ironically House Bill 251 17 wouldn't be necessary if the Game Commission 18 and the game wardens would exercise, in some 19 cases, common sense. 20 The problem is that everything that 21 related to these types of violations places 22 you at the mercy of the individual game 23 warden. Game feeders, which have been in 24 existence with no problem for ten to twenty 25 years, can all of a sudden become a problem 9 1 under a new game warden. 2 The Game Commission will tell you 3 such things like each station -- situation is 4 different and it depends on the landscape. 5 But these are just excuses to continue 6 allowing enforcement officers far too much 7 leeway in deciding who is cited. 8 This is leeway they should not 9 have -- need or have and defining a specific 10 distance will help eliminate such situations. 11 Violations for baiting or hunting 12 near feeding areas are very serious in that 13 they can result in loss of license for two or 14 three years and fines up to $300. 15 Thousands of dollars are spent in 16 defending these violations. While large clubs 17 may begrudgingly be able to bear some of this 18 expense, it is almost impossible for an 19 individual to do so. They are left totally at 20 the mercy of the Game Commission. 21 Recently, on two occasions in the 22 Williamsport area, 25 people have been charged 23 for hunting in a baited area only in the one 24 case to see charges dropped to two individuals 25 before the trial but after already spending 10 1 thousands of dollars in defense, the court 2 decided against the Commission stating that 3 with no specific distance in the law the judge 4 is not in a position to establish one. And 5 that's important. 6 Earlier this year, at the State Farm 7 Show, a police officer asked me if I was 8 familiar with the baiting laws in 9 Pennsylvania. He came up to me -- and I just 10 want to give you that brief story of what 11 developed there. 12 He came up to me and said, you're 13 Representative Godshall? I said, yes. He 14 said, do you have anything to do with the Game 15 Commission? My answer was yes and no, I 16 guess. I said, not really. 17 And he said, well, are you familiar 18 with the rules and the laws? I said, yes. At 19 least to some degree. Why? And he said, a 20 friend of his, a son who was 16-years-old, got 21 arrested up in the northeast -- or the 22 northwest, in the Erie -- Erie area, and he 23 was arrested for hunting too close to a 24 feeder. When the young guy -- man asked the 25 warden just what the law was, he got really 11 1 nothing back except, you know, I decide what 2 the law is as far as how close to hunt. 3 Anyway, the kid's father went back 4 home. And the father called the game warden 5 and really got the same answers and there were 6 no answers. 7 So the father called the State Police 8 officer who talked to me down at the Farm Show 9 and he said the father told him what had 10 developed. The police officer said, when I 11 called the officer on the phone, the first 12 thing out of his mouth was don't ask me for 13 any favors because you're not getting any.