EPISODE 257: SASHA HUTCHINGS TRANSCRIPT Lin-Manuel Miranda 0:00 Hi, I'm stage and stages Lin Manuel Miranda and you're listening to the Hamilcast Gillian Pensavalle 0:19 Hey friends. Welcome back to the Hamilcast. I'm Gillian This is part two of my conversation with original Hamilton cast member Sasha Hutchings. If you miss part one, go back and check out episode number 253. That's where you can hear all about how Sasha went from Georgia to Oklahoma to New York, how she made her Broadway debut just a few short months after getting to the greatest city in the world, and how she made sure she'd be involved in Hamilton. But if you're all caught up, alright, let's do this. Here's Part Two with Sasha. Gillian Pensavalle 0:50 I would love to talk to you about your thoughts about representation on Broadway. And you are, I don't know if you love the word activist or not, on that before, but you're using your voice in such a beautiful, important way. And I would just love to give you a space to do that again. Sasha Hutchings 1:06 Yeah. Hell yeah. Representation. It's huge. You've been hearing it so so so so much. I think it's critical. And I think it's critical. But I also think we have to be really, we have to challenge ourselves in all the ways that we think about what it means, what representation means. And we have to be really expansive in our thinking of where and how it applies. Because I think it can get very quota like. that, if we do this one thing, then we're okay, if it looks a certain way, then it's good. And that is not always true. It's, in fact, a lot of times it's not, but I will say representation when people talk about it. I when I was talking about Memphis, and what happened to me when I saw the show for the first time, and I saw women who looked like me and who had bodies like me doing dance that I had been trained to do. I was a jazz dancer. I was like, I was heavily trained in ballet, I did tap but like I was mainly like this is I don't do you know modern dance. I didn't want to really I love the Lion King. But I was like, I don't really do that. That's not like my goal. That's not doesn't feel like it drops in. When I saw Memphis, I was like, I was like, This is absolutely what I want to do. When I saw Memphis and I saw 1 EPISODE 257: SASHA HUTCHINGS TRANSCRIPT these women who looked like me who had bodies like me who moved in a way that I wanted to move. It manifested in my spirit, and in me in a way that nothing else ever had no teacher who had told me I had what it took no job I had booked that far, like thus far, like no, nothing else resonated with me. But then seeing myself seeing something as possible to the point that when I walked away from that show, my best friend in college, who was staying with me and Gavey's apartment, she looked at me and she said, Are you okay? And I was like, I think I'm okay. And she said, You're really quiet on our walk home from the show. And I said, I can do this. I just saw that show. And I know that I can do this. And now, it just, it hits me in a way that I'm afraid of what it means if I don't, but it made it so real, to see myself. Now, I think that is what it means to see yourself. It just it does something for a little girl to see. To see Kamala Harris take the oath of office to see Barack Obama take the oath of office, it does something to see that that cannot be overcome. That is not by by someone telling you a million times, nothing it that will not measure up to being able to see it. Now I grew up not knowing that, you know, not seeing a black president not seeing a female executive in the highest office like I didn't, I didn't see those things. I do believe they can happen. Like we've we still haven't seen a female president. But I think you know, many of us would have no problem voting for one. Some of us do. But a lot of us don't have a problem envisioning that or voting for one. But representation matters because it does something to see it you have to see it to believe it. You know, they're saying they matter for a reason. Now, how much is that? actor who's representing African American women in a starring role making compared to a white actress of similar ability, notoriety, how much what are their paychecks look like? What is the production side look like? Who's behind the table who's making the decisions who's controlling like, the representation there matters a lot. And when you have What it means what it means to have a full cast, a black cast, you know, a black show, quote unquote, it means that you've got not just, you know, 30 actors living a dream on stage, you've got 30 actors making a wage, you've got 30 actors who can maybe put some savings, you've probably got a few actor more than a few actors sending money home to a family, because we're dealing with things like we're dealing with dealing with generational wealth gaps. So when we talk about representation, it's not just a facade, it's not just the face of a thing. It's it's tangible, structural, economic empowerment. We fought really hard, you know, it was in the papers and for literally equity in Hamilton, the original cast to have a 2 EPISODE 257: SASHA HUTCHINGS TRANSCRIPT point in the show. Yeah, and what does that mean, and thank God, and as a testament to everyone involved, like we were able to reach an agreement that allows us to be a part of the success of the show, in a way that Sasha Hutchings 6:06 is, is is is, I don't even know how to put it like, I'm thinking about my grandfather, who built a bike and delivered liquor, you know, to support his family at nine years old. And now I get money from a show, you know, I see residuals from art that I've helped create and put out in the world, it just means something for the way that I am able, as an African American woman in 2020, to understand my value in the world, how I contribute, and how money works. And that will affect generation after me and the generation after me. And so it's the activism, the the what we're doing when we talk about diversity and inclusion, it's, it's not just about making the thing look like it has, you know, the right number of people in the room? What is that room? What ideas get to, you know, get to manifest in that room? How loudly do the people of color get to speak? How freely did they get to speak and be themselves and fully be themselves in that space? I've said this a lot, too, just because you're in a black show, quote, unquote, does not mean you're in a black space. And that's something we have yet to really tackle in this sort of wave of reckoning. Because of the pandemic, we haven't really been in these rooms. But there are there are rooms that I've been in that I'm like, there's a lot of people of color in this room. And yet, I feel like I have to step lightly. And that's, I won't even say that's like, because someone intentionally tried to hush me. It's just because people were used to white spaces. That's what the world is, it's a white space. So we just have to really think about how can representation it's not just representation in, you know, numbers, its representation in where's the money going? Where are the ideas coming from? Who's being promoted? How are we? How is the space being conducted? And really, are we achieving a real sense of equity in the place and not just, you know, well, we've increased the number of people of color on the team and hoping that that will set everything right, like you have to, yes, that is part of it. But it's one part, and being able to create spaces, you know, where women get to speak freely, and be in charge and have the final say, and where, you know, people of color get the same and we and an LGBTQ gets to lead the space. Like, it's not just it's really not just about, and I don't know how much you've maybe experienced this, but when you walk into a 3 EPISODE 257: SASHA HUTCHINGS TRANSCRIPT room that's led by femme energy, or led by, like a marginalized sort of group, whether that means that it's LGBTQ, or if it's, you know, Puerto Rican, or if it's black, it's black women, those spaces are just very, they operate differently.