CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 138 Ï NUMBER 108 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 37th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Thursday, May 29, 2003 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire´´ at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 6643 HOUSE OF COMMONS Thursday, May 29, 2003 The House met at 10 a.m. [Translation] POINTS OF ORDER STANDING COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT Prayers Hon. Don Boudria (Minister of State and Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS The House has just been presented with the report of the Standing Committee on Transport. This committee reported the estimates this Ï (1005) morning, which were referred by the House of Commons. So, the committee's decision is the result of an order from the House, [English] meaning that the House mandated the committee to make such a decision. GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS The committee, therefore, made certain decisions and reported Mr. Geoff Regan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of them to the House; this is an official report. This is the ultimate the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, responsibility of parliamentary committees in terms of reports and pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to table, in both decisions. official languages, the government's response to three petitions. That said, I draw the Chair's attention to Marleau and Montpetit's *** House of Commons Procedure and Practice, pages 244 and 245. Under “Committee Rooms”, it says: COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE Committees may meet anywhere in the parliamentary precinct provided the requirements for— GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS AND ESTIMATES This is a condition. Mr. Paul Forseth (New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, —interpretation— Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, it is somewhat of an historic day This is the first requirement. here. I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the —and recording— third report of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. We have reduced an estimate. That is it. —are met. TRANSPORT Ï (1010) Mr. Joe Comuzzi (Thunder Bay—Superior North, Lib.): Mr. [English] Speaker, the Standing Committee on Transport has considered the estimates for 2003-04 and has the honour to present its third report. This was not, in my opinion, observed this morning. [Translation] Pursuant to the orders of the House dated Wednesday, February 26 for the consideration of estimates 2003-04 on votes 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, Referring to Marleau and Montpetit page 835 respecting 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55 and 60, your committee has considered committees: vote 25 under transport, VIA Rail Canada Inc., for the fiscal year Meetings of committees usually take place in specially equipped rooms in the Parliament Buildings, but committees may hold meetings elsewhere in Canada. The ending March 31, 2004, and has reduced vote 25 from $266,201,000 meeting rooms are usually arranged in an open-rectangle configuration. to $257,201,000, which is equivalent to a 2.95% reduction, amounting to $9 million. There is discussion of the equipment in the room, the staff assigned to committee members, where everyone sits and it is then A copy of the relevant minutes of the proceedings of Meeting No. stated that: 30 is hereby tabled. Committee meetings are ordinarily open to the public— 6644 COMMONS DEBATES May 29, 2003 Points of Order So, the decisions reached on matters referred by this House, I am really disappointed in the actions that our House leader has particularly formal decisions, are made in rooms “open to the public taken this morning with reference to a legal technicality. I think we and the media”. The reference continues as follows: have obliged every rule of jurisprudence in the House. I want to Simultaneous interpretation services are offered to committee members, witnesses compliment the members of the transport committee for having the and members of the public at all committee meetings. diligence and perseverance to go through the work that we have had to go through for the last several weeks in order to get these The public has a right to be present, and simultaneous estimates through. interpretation is available. As I have already said, recording must also be possible. I take what the House leader has said as an affront to the work of the committee, and I stand by the recommendations that I presented. I would invite the Chair to look into this. Before the report is accepted, I would ask you to defer your ruling until later today, if Ï (1015) you would so desire. Firstly, this ruling will determine whether these Mr. Gary Lunn (Saanich—Gulf Islands, Canadian Alliance): rules, and the respect of Canada's official languages, were observed Mr. Speaker, it is important to put on the record, as this could be when the decisions were reached at this morning's meeting, as well setting a terrible precedent, that committees are masters of their own as the public aspect. There were no witnesses to be heard, and I proceedings. I also want to point out that the Standing Committee on know that certain employees of Parliament were denied access to the Procedure and House Affairs often allows its striking committee to room. The ruling will also address the matter of recording and, meet without a quorum and without interpretation but their reports thirdly, the strict observation of our rules relating to official are always accepted. languages as far as simultaneous interpretation is concerned. I think it is very important to put that on the record when you, Mr. I am certain that the Chair will have no option but to reach the Speaker, are considering this matter, and to say that it is no different conclusion that these rules were not duly observed and that this in this case. report, as presented to us this morning, is not indeed such and is therefore found to be out of order by the Chair. [Translation] Mr. Mario Laframboise (Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, [English] BQ): Mr. Speaker, I attended the meeting of the Standing Committee Mr. Paul Forseth (New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, on Transport, this morning. The committee's chair told this House Canadian Alliance): Mr. Speaker, I would hope the government that, yes, there was no quorum yesterday evening. Obviously, the side is not citing a technical rule for a perverse purpose, because its opposition members were in attendance, but some members from the real argument is the issue of the substance of what the committee government side were missing. The committee adjourned this reported and it is only using a technical argument. morning. Mr. Joe Comuzzi (Thunder Bay—Superior North, Lib.): Mr. I must advise the Chair that I had made sure to obtain the services Speaker, I listened with interest to what the House leader had to say. of an interpreter; so, I had an interpreter with me. I presumed, He referred to some references in the parliamentary procedure. I however, that the committee had met all the requirements, including would like to report as an aside that perhaps if we had proceeded and for transcription services, among others. This is important, had some control over the process that has been happening in the obviously, since we had to produce a report. House of Commons over the last little while we could have avoided the problem we found ourselves in last evening. I hope there was transcription; I am picturing the room and trying to see how it would have been possible to transcribe everything that We started our meeting yesterday afternoon at 3:30. There was was said. If the committee's deliberations were not transcribed, then I much debate over the estimates. We concluded the meeting last night agree with the government House leader: if the committee did not after a continuous hearing from 3:30 in the afternoon to 9:30 last follow the procedure, then, your good judgment is required, Mr. evening. We did not adjourn the meeting last night. We suspended Speaker; you must render a decision today. the meeting at that point in time in as much as we did not have a quorum present at 9:30. We attempted and the clerk attempted to get Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): Mr. Speaker, the a quorum. government House leader's concern is understandable. I sit on the Standing Committee on Official Languages and I want both When the meeting was suspended last evening and because there languages to be respected; that has always been my position, as a was no other place in the House to conduct that meeting we decided member of Parliament and as a member of that committee. to use a room in the parliamentary dining room. At 8 o'clock this morning the suspended meeting of last evening was commenced It would be to the Liberal government's credit to respect Canada's again. We did have interpretation and recording. An interpreter from official languages, as this House has been asked to do this morning. the interpreter's department was present at the table to offer interpretation. If I talk about the technical aspect of the situation, I may end up saying the opposite of what I usually say about official languages. Therefore we did in fact provide the proper interpretation services. Sometimes the issue of official languages is used simply because the We had the recording, the clerk was present and we had a quorum. Liberals do not like a bill, and I think that is wrong.