1 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE EXECUTIVE SESSION COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY JOINT W/ COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WASHINGTON, D.C. INTERVIEW OF: ANDREW McCABE Thursday, December 21, 2017 Washington, D.C. The interview in the above matter was held in Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 10:54 a.m. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 2 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Chairman Goodlatte. This is a transcribed interview of Andrew McCabe. Chairman Gowdy and I requested this interview. Joint investigation by the House Committee on the Judiciary and the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform to conduct oversight into the Department of Justice's investigation of former Secretary Clinton's handling of classified information and related matters. So, Mr. McCabe, would you please state your name and position at the FBI for the record? Mr. McCabe. Yes, sir. My name is Andrew McCabe, and I am the deputy director of the FBI. Voice. The microphone. Mr. McCabe. Sorry. Is that better? Chairman Goodlatte. Yeah, that's good. Mr. McCabe. My name is Andrew McCabe, and I am the deputy director of the FBI. Chairman Goodlatte. I want to thank you for appearing here today, and we appreciate your willingness to testify voluntarily. I'm Bob Goodlatte, chairman of the Committee on the Judiciary, and I'm joined today by several members of the Judiciary and Oversight and Government Reform Committees and by counsel for those committees. And I will now ask everyone else from the committees who is here in the room to introduce themselves as well, starting with members of the committees. Chairman Gowdy. Trey Gowdy. Mr. Buck. Ken Buck. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 3 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Ratcliffe. John Ratcliffe. Mr. Meadows. Mark Meadows. Ms. Jackson Lee. Sheila Jackson Lee. [Inaudible.] Mr. Cicilline. David Cicilline. Mr. Connolly. Gerry Connolly. Mr. Cummings. Elijah Cummings. [Inaudible.] Chairman Goodlatte. All right. Okay. Now, at this table -- before I ask the other people to introduce themselves -- at this table, we're to have three members of the majority from each committee, three members of the minority from each committee. So if you have more than six, take a seat, you're welcome to stay, take a seat, but only six at a time, and allow the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan, to have a seat at the table. So I'm still thinking I have more than six Democrats at the table. [Inaudible.] Chairman Goodlatte. No. The issue is that -- you're welcome to stay, but you sit in the audience because that's -- that's what the rules are for this. Mr. Cicilline. What rules? Chairman Goodlatte. The rules that the chairman of the two committees have established, that there will be six members at the table. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 4 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Cicilline. Okay. Mr. Nadler. We can switch them around? Chairman Goodlatte. That's right. You can switch out at any time. Mr. Cummings. This is very important. So do what the chairman asks. Chairman Goodlatte. I thank you for that. Mr. Cummings. Sure. Chairman Goodlatte. Okay. Okay. So this is important. You can have up to six people ask questions. Other people can jump in during a questioner's 30 minutes, but we're not going to have more than six 30-minute sessions for either side. On our side, we're going to rotate between the two chairmen asking questions. Other members will interrupt us if they want to follow a line of question. You can do the same thing. You can do it with six people, you can do it with two people, however you want, but -- Mr. Cummings. What about staff? Chairman Goodlatte. Staff will have to ask questions through the members. Mr. Cummings. That's not acceptable. We want to use our 30 minutes, period, the way we want to use them. I've never heard of this. In other words, we want to -- we want staff -- we prepared for this. We've been up all night preparing for this. We got 48 hours notice, and we want our staff to be involved in this. Chairman Goodlatte. Well, they can be involved in it. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 5 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Cummings. No. No. No. Not this stuff about going through. Now, come on. Chairman Goodlatte. So if you want a staff member to ask questions, then you'll vacate a seat, let them sit there, and ask with questions. And members can ask questions through them, but only the six members that you designate. Mr. Cummings. Okay. Wait a minute. So a staff person cannot ask Mr. McCabe a question. Chairman Goodlatte. Let's go off the record. Mr. Cummings. Yeah. Sure. [Discussion off the record.] Chairman Goodlatte. So let's ask those people who are here who are not Members of Congress to identify themselves. We'll go back on the record for that purpose. Mr. Cummings. We're back on the record now? Chairman Goodlatte. Yes. All right. We'll start over here with Brandon. We'll work our way around the room. Mr. Ritchie. Branden Ritchie. Ms. Husband. Shelley Husband, Judiciary Committee staff. Mr. Castor. Steve Castor with the Oversight Committee. Mr. Davis. Carlton Davis, Mr. Gowdy. Mr. Somers. Zach Somers with the Judiciary Committee. Mr. Parmiter. Robert Parmiter, Judiciary Committee. Mr. Breitenbach. Ryan Breitenbach, Judiciary Committee. Chairman Goodlatte. Back row here. COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 6 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. Rapallo. David Rapallo, Oversight Committee. Ms. Kim. Janet Kim, Oversight Committee. Ms. Shen. Valerie Shen, Oversight Committee. [Additional staff introductions were inaudible.] Mr. Apelbaum. Perry Apelbaum, Judiciary Committee. Ms. Sachsman Grooms. Susanne Sachsman Grooms, Oversight Committee. Mr. Hiller. Aaron Hiller, Judiciary Committee. Mr. Schools. Scott Schools, Justice Department. Ms. Anderson. Trisha Anderson, FBI. Mr. Brower. Greg Brower, FBI. , special agent, director's detail. , special agent, director's detail. Chairman Goodlatte. Very good. All right. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure do not apply in this setting, but there are some guidelines that we follow that I'll go over. Our questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions first for 30 minutes, then the minority will have the opportunity to ask questions for an equal period of time, if they choose. We will go back and forth in this manner until there are no more questions and the interview is over. As I noted earlier, Deputy Director McCabe is appearing today voluntarily. Accordingly, we anticipate that our questions will receive complete responses. To the extent that Mr. McCabe declines COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 7 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE to answer our questions or if counsel for the Department instructs him not to answer, we will consider whether a subpoena is necessary. Typically, we take a short break at the end of each hour of questioning. But if you would like to take a break apart from that, please let us know. We can also take a break for lunch at the appropriate point. As you can see, there is an official reporter taking down everything we say to make a written record, so we ask that you give verbal responses to all questions. Do you understand? Mr. McCabe. I do. Chairman Goodlatte. Thank you. So that the reporter can take down a clear record, we will try to limit questioning during each 30-minute round to one member or one committee counsel. However, we may need to deviate from that general rule at certain points. It's also important that we don't talk over one another or interrupt each other if we can help it. And that goes for everybody present at today's interview. Both committees encourage witnesses who appear for transcribed interviews to freely consult with counsel if they so choose, and you are appearing today with counsel. Could counsel please state your name and current position for the record? Ms. Anderson. Trisha Anderson, principal deputy general counsel COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 8 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE for the FBI. Chairman Goodlatte. We want you to answer our questions in the most complete and truthful manner possible, so we will take our time. If you have any questions or if you do not understand one of our questions, please let us know. And if you honestly do not know the answer to a question or do not remember it, it is best not to guess. Please give us your best recollection. And it is okay to tell us if you learned information from someone else. Just indicate how you came to know the information. If there are things you don't know or can't remember, just say so, and please inform us who, to the best of your knowledge, might be able to provide a more complete answer to the question. Mr. McCabe, you should also understand that, although this interview is not under oath, you are required by law to answer questions from Congress truthfully. Do you understand that? Mr. McCabe. Yes, I do. Chairman Goodlatte. This also applies to questions posed by congressional staff in an interview. Do you understand this? Mr. McCabe. I do. Chairman Goodlatte. Witnesses who knowingly provide false testimony could be subject to criminal prosecution for perjury or for making false statements. Do you understand this? COMMITTEE SENSITIVE 9 COMMITTEE SENSITIVE Mr. McCabe. I do. Chairman Goodlatte. Is there any reason you are unable to provide truthful answer to today's questions? Mr. McCabe. No. Chairman Goodlatte. Finally, I'd like to note that the content of what we discuss here today is confidential. It is not a classified briefing, but it is a confidential interview, and we ask that you not speak about what we discuss in this interview to anyone not present here today to preserve the integrity of our investigation.