The American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews The Museum of Flight Seattle, Washington Richard L. “Zeke” Cormier (Part 3 of 3) Interviewed by: Eugene A. Valencia Interview Date: October 14, 1966 2 Abstract: In this three-part oral history, fighter ace Richard L. “Zeke” Cormier is interviewed by Eugene A. Valencia about his military service with the United States Navy. In part three, Cormier discusses his time with the Blue Angels, shares more stories from World War II, and reflects on his military career. He concludes the interview with his thoughts on fighter aces and fighter pilots. Biography: Richard L. “Zeke” Cormier was born on December 19, 1919 in Centralia, Washington. He joined the United States Navy in 1941 and was designated a naval aviator the following year. During World War II, Cormier served several combat tours, first with Composite Squadron 1 (VC-1) aboard the USS Card and then with Fighting Squadron 80 (VF-80) aboard the USS Ticonderoga and USS Hancock. He remained in the military after the war and continued his naval aviation career with Fighter Squadron 2A (VF-2A), Fighter Photographic Squadron 61 (VFP-61), Attack Squadron 113 (VFA-113), and Air Group 11. He also commanded the Blue Angels, the Navy’s flight demonstration squadron, during the mid-1950s and served as executive officer aboard the USS Wasp. Cormier retired as a captain in 1964 and passed away in 2001. Biographical information courtesy of: Boyce, Ward J., ed., American fighter aces album. Mesa, Ariz: American Fighter Aces Association, 1996. Restrictions: Permission to publish material from the American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Transcript: Transcribed by Pioneer Transcription Services 3 Index: Selecting and training the Blue Angels ........................................................................................... 4 Blue Angels training schedule ........................................................................................................ 6 Funny experiences with the Blue Angels........................................................................................ 6 Mishap in Ulithi .............................................................................................................................. 8 Leaving the Navy ............................................................................................................................ 9 Thoughts on fighter pilots ............................................................................................................. 10 4 Richard L. “Zeke” Cormier (Part 3 of 3) [START OF INTERVIEW] 0:00:00 [Selecting and training the Blue Angels] EUGENE A. VALENCIA: Zeke, as we have discussed, one of the prime duties or the most sought-after duties of an aviator, a naval aviator, is that of selection of the team, the Blue Angels. You, as leader, when you selected the men—well, first off, will you tell me how the selection of a man comes about, as well as the determination if he'll remain. RICHARD L. CORMIER: Well, if you recall, Gene, we mentioned at one time that there are— that the role of a pilot is a many-headed thing, and some things you do naturally better than you do other things. Some people, for instance, shoot the guns well, but you ask them to go on an instrument hop or you ask them to go night flying or night carrier landings, and they're not—they won't say they won't go, but they're not as eager to go as you say, “Let's go on a gunnery hop.” 0:01:15 RLC: The same thing is true in flying an airplane in formation. There are some people who like it and do it well and no matter what you ask them to do flying formation, it can be done. Well, the task of a team, of course, was to take some basic maneuvers that—and this is the way that it had evolved in the training command—to take some basic maneuvers taught to all the naval cadets, the ones in flight training, basic fighter maneuvers primarily, and bring them down to a level and do them in a manner that would demonstrate to the viewing public the kind of things that were taught to naval aviators. But bring them down where they could see them and do them in a formation that would demonstrate the type of precision that was taught to naval aviators. And so what we're doing, in effect—the team was, in effect—or kind of a showcase for the training command. This is the original conception of the team. EAV: Yes, but Zeke, one thing, when that is announced, it always gets a chuckle from—well, not only the crowd, but from the aviators. RLC: Well, you must remember now that the aviators in the audience represent about one-tenth of one percent of the total viewing audience, and you tell this to a 10-year-old, for instance— 0:03:03 EAV: Yeah. RLC: …or you tell this to a 12-year-old and he hears this. Or a 15-year-old. He said, “By Jimmy, I want to do that. I want to become a naval aviator. If they can do that sort of thing and do it with four airplanes down here, think of how much fun it must be or how much of a thrill it 5 must be to do it in a high-powered airplane up where you can enjoy it.” So you're not reaching me. You're not doing this thing for the naval aviators, because naval aviators—or any kind of aviator, for that matter—looks at the total picture and says, "Well, I could do that, too." And when you come right down to it, with the kind of proper training and if the guy has any inclination or any talent in flying formation, he can be taught to do that. EAV: So a man reports to the Angels, the Blues, do you take them out first as an example [unintelligible 00:03:55] RLC: First of all, you ask for volunteers. EAV: Oh, yes. 0:03:59 RLC: Okay. That narrows the picture down considerably just in that respect alone, because there are some who like to do that sort of thing and some others who think it's too dangerous. They just—or the team is gone too much or there are several other things. And so the scope of the problem is narrowed by just asking for volunteers. Okay, then from the volunteers, you look at the man's record and a recommendation from his last command, an aviating command, and then narrow it down even farther. And those who survive that little test then are brought to wherever the team may be at that time and have an opportunity to fly with one of the members of the team, not necessarily with a leader. And depending on how this flight goes, then the man is flown with the leader, and the leader makes the ultimate selection. But you can normally tell the way the man handles the airplane in just a couple of hops whether or not he is going to fit into the team. Or whether or not there's a place for him, for instance, as a solo pilot. But he has to have a desire to join the team to do what they do to begin with. EAV: So the man with the desire and the equipment, you feel that you can develop this man into a team member? RLC: Right. And sometimes it doesn't always work like that. I can remember one gent who was a very talented aviator and did—was with the team a short time as a solo pilot. He did a beautiful job. The maneuvers were precise and his timing was good and he handled the airplane beautifully, but he just didn't have that talent to fly in the formation. He, uh—and as close as I ever came to piling up the whole team was one formation that we did when we were canopy-to- canopy at a couple thousand feet in the air. 0:06:15 RLC: And how we were able to unscramble that, I don't know. But it was just because he became a little behind in the maneuver and then got a little panicky and damn near did us all in. 6 [Blue Angels training schedule] EAV: Zeke, what is a normal routine, if there is one of the team? RLC: You mean the sequence of maneuvers or— EAV: No, events. Well, let's say the routine training schedule. RLC: Okay. The team selects an area that will give them the best flying weather, and this happens during the winter months. Now, this has been either in El Centro, at the Naval Air Station in El Centro, before they closed it, or Yuma or down at Key West, where you can count on the reasonably good flying weather during the winter months, during the stand-down period. So the transfers are affected during these three months, from November through January. Normally, the team will fly about 80 demonstrations in the operational year, which is from February through the last of November. So you can see that the team is pretty busy. 0:07:33 EAV: Oh, yes. RLC: This is, you know—this is one-and-a-half a week. So they're busy as they can be, and there isn't time to train a new guy during the season. So you necessarily then have to take the winter months and go to an area where you can expect some good flying weather and fly at least three hops a day. So in between the shows, in the last months of the season, why, you're going through the routine of selecting the new pilots. And of course, the ideal situation is to take two in at a time and phase them into—either as into the formation or into the solo spot—[unintelligible 00:08:13] lead the solo people, the ones who have been flying the single airplanes, into the formation because they're more familiar with the routine.