AMC INTERVIEW WITH DR. WADDINGTON On the 2nd July 1992, Barbara Sudano and Rev. Iloerane met with Dr. Waddington. The ANC requested Rev. Moerane to speak on their behalf. He was also representing the Vaal Council of Churches. We collected Dr. Waddington and Commissioner Laidlaw from the Vanderbijlpark Police Station and took them to a church nearby where the meeting took place. The discussion was prefaced by Dr. Waddington and Mr. Laidlaw, stating that they were not investigating the events on the night of the 17th June 1992, but were investigating : - a* whether the police could have prevented the event; and k* the investigation by the police subsequent to the events of the night of the 17th June 1992. ERIQR WARMINGS OF THE ATTACK TO THE POLICE We reported a call by Rev. Paul Verryn to Col. Gouws, the calls by Watch Mothibidi and we reported the discussion held between Capt. De Klerk and Lucas Nthobejane. We stated that Paul Verryn and Lucas Nthobejane had both referred to an impending attack in the Vaal that night. We stated that Watch Mothibidi had communicated an impending attack in Sebokeng and that he was phoning from Zone 11. We were questioned as to whether this number of calls was an unusual occurrence, or whether it was common practice or a daily occurrence that people would phone the police with rumours of impending attacks. Rev. Moerane states that in his opinion that it was a fairly unusual occurrence. He stated that he had called Col. Du Pont about an impending attack on an individual by Kwa-Madala residents approximately 3 weeks prior to the massacre. He stated that 4 calls in one night would be an unusual occurrence, but also that it was not very often that the community had prior warning of attacks. Rev. Moerane also stated that he would expect that on receipt of such calls, that the police should have checked Kwa-Madala Hostel immediately. He then gave a brief overview of the history of Kwa-Madala and the continuous communications with the police since July 1990, specifically about violence from the Kwa-Madala Hostel. THE POLICE-INVESTIGATION AFTER THE MASSACRE We were questioned particularly on the police conduct on the 18th June 1992. Rev. Moerane, who had gone to Boipatong early on that daY/ explained that the police had, in his observation, not conducted an investigation but had instead adopted an aggressive attitude towards the community. He, himself, was in a car which was narrowly missed by bullets shot by the police. He also informed Waddington and Leidlaw that the police fired teargas at residents at various places in Boipatong on that morning. He further stated that roadblocks were set up outside Boipatong and 7 youths from Boipatong were arrested. When Rev. Moerane questioned the police as to why the 7 youths were arrested, their answer to him was that there had been 39 people killed and the police were investigating. The inference to be drawn from the police's statement was that the 7 were arrested for the murder of the 39 people. Rev. Moerane informed Waddington and Laidlaw of this and also of the fact that the police had been abusive when he had tried to establish the whereabouts of the 7 youths. We also informed Waddington and Laidlaw that the police had effectively denied them access to their legal representatives insofar as the police where unable to inform their legal representatives where they were being held. Laidlaw and Waddington questioned Rev. Moerane on the following : - - 5 - a. whether the police formed a line in order to search for forensic evidence. Rev. Moerane informed them that they had not done so. b. whether the police had searched around the bodies for forensic and other evidence. Rev. Moerane informed them that the police had not done so. c. they questioned Rev. Moerane as to whether the police had questioned family members at places where deceased people were found. Rev. Moerane informed them that the police had not done so. 6.5 Rev. Moerane also informed them that the community had been very upset as in their perception, the police had acted against the 7 youths from the community, but had taken no action against the Kwa-Madala residents at that stage. Rev. Moerane explained that this was a source of enormous tension amongst residents of the community. STATEMENTS TO THE POLICE 7.1 We were questioned about the ANC's stance on members of the community making statements to the police. Dr. Waddington quoted W. Mbele's statement which had appeared in the press that morning wherein it was stated that the ANC had informed residents not to give statements to the police. We stated that in our contact with residents it has become obvious to us that they were afraid to give statements to the police because they feared further attacks from Kwa-Madala Hostel. We stated that we had also been informed by residents that they were afraid of giving statements to the police as witnesses had died in the past in the Vaal area, after they had done so. POLICE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY We also gave a brief account of the type of relationship between community leaders and the police that exist in the Vaal. Rev. Moerane explained that whenever he and his co-field workers at the Vaal Council of Churches and other community leaders had approached the police for assistance they had always been told that the police would investigate as soon as the community leaders brought evidence. Rev. Moerane also explained a perception on the part of the community that the police did not prosecute Kwa-Madala residents. When they were arrested, they were very soon released on bail and there had never been any convictions of Kwa-Madala residents for the numerous acts of violence. Rev. Moerane explained that it was the perception of the community that there was a bias on behalf of the police in favour of Kwa-Madala and the IFP. He stated as an example of this, the fact that ANC members who are arrested are most often denied bail. He further stated that it is common practice on behalf of the police to assault ANC members who are arrested. I confirmed that in the records of our offices, it was a matter of course that clients arrested in the Vaal were assaulted by police while in police custody, or during their arrests. We were not questioned at all about the events of the night of the 17th June 1992, in particular, we were not r - 8 - questioned about the involvement of police or whites in the attack. It was stated to us by Dr. Waddington and Commissioner Laidlaw that the events of the night were beyond the jurisdiction of their inquiry. Rev. Moerane, who has read the Waddington report wishes to point out that there is an error on page 11, the last paragraph there is a reference to Rev. Verryn who arrived at approximately 9a.m in the morning that should read Rev. Moerane arrived. All reference to Rev. Verryn being present in Boipatong on the 18th are incorrect and it was in fact Rev. Moerane who was present. A further reference is made on pages 32 and 33 to the arrival of Rev. Verryn that should also be a reference to Rev. Moerane. mcas\MinSebokeng. MINUTES OF MEETING WITH SEBOKENG COMMUNITY LEADERS HELD AT COSATU WESTERN TRANSVAAL OFFxJE IN VEREENIGING AT 14:00 ON 23RD OCTOBER 1990. Present zwelenzima Vavi Jeffrey Mokoro Ernest Sotsu Sello Morake Shelle Popane Mandel Nvugo Azhar Cachalia Jabu Ndhlovu Anton Steenkamp Azhar cachalia reported back on a meeting the morning of 23rd October between Azhar Cachalia, Jabu Ndhlovu, Anton Steenkamp and Lt Coetzer, Lt van Niekerk, Col van Niekerk and Warrant Officer Putter of the SAP in Sebokeng, as well as Adv Anton Ackermann, the Deputy Attorney General. Azhar reported that it was not clear at this stage how many people were killed in the attack on the Sebokeng hostels on the 4th September. The death toll seems to be around 41. The newspapers reported at the time that 11 people were shot by the SADF, but it now appears that the figure could be as low as 3. A judicial inquest will be held which should determine how many people were killed by the SADF and how many were killed in the Inkatha attack earlier that morning. Azhar explained the difference between a commission of inquiry and a criminal case. Whereas organisations have called for a judicial commission of inquiry and they have also called for the 137 Inkatha people arrested on the scene to be charged, it is not possible legally to pursue criminal charges in respect of people while simultaneously running a judical inquest. Azhar explained that the statement we have collected so far state that a group of people attacked the hostels on the morning of 4\9\1990 and that they shot and hacked hostel inmates and burnt cars. With one or two exceptions, we do not have direct evidence of individuals implicated in the murders. Aznar explained the common purpose rule, namely that evidence is needed to show that each person in the group participated in the attack and identified himself or herself with the killing. In the present case, a large group attacked the hostel, but it is clear that all of them had planned to murder hostel inmates. It is difficult to link individuals to the actual crime, because we do not have this sort of evidence. One way to escape this problem, is that common purpose could be established if we are able to show that a prior meeting took place before the attack, where the attack on the hostels was planned and where it was stated that people should be killed.