T Y N W A L D C O U R T O F F I C I A L R E P O R T R E C O R T Y S O I K O I L Q U A I Y L T I N V A A L P R O C E E D I N G S D A A L T Y N S T A N D I N G C O M M I T T E E O F T Y N W A L D O N E C O N O M I C P O L I C Y R E V I E W B I N G V E A Y N T I N V A A L M Y C H I O N E A A S C R U T A G H E Y P O L A S E E Y N T A R M A Y N A G H OPEN SKIES POLICY HANSARD Douglas, Thursday, 25th April 2013 PP82/13 EPRC-OS, No. 2/12-13 All published Official Reports can be found on the Tynwald website www.tynwald.org.im/Official Papers/Hansards/Please select a year: Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Finch Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IM1 3PW. © High Court of Tynwald, 2013 TYNWALD STANDING COMMITTEE, THURSDAY, 25th APRIL 2013 Members Present: Chairman: Mr L I Singer, MHK Mr D M W Butt, MLC Clerks: Mr R I S Phillips Business Transacted Page Procedural ................................................................................................................................. 21 Evidence of Mr Noel Hayes, Chairman and Mr David Buck, Managing Director, Citywing ................................................................ 21 The Committee adjourned at 3.18 p.m. _________________________________________________________________ 20 EPRC-OS/12-13 TYNWALD STANDING COMMITTEE, THURSDAY, 25th APRIL 2013 Standing Committee of Tynwald on Economic Policy Review Open Skies policy The Committee sat in public at 2.30 p.m. in the Legislative Council Chamber, Legislative Buildings, Douglas [MR SINGER in the Chair] Procedural The Chairman (Mr L I Singer MHK): Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to this inquiry. The Standing Committee today is taking evidence on Open Skies from Mr Noel Hayes, who is Chairman, and Mr David Buck, the Managing Director of Citywing. It was our intention to 5 be taking evidence from Flybe and easyJet today, but for reasons beyond their control, they could not appear today, but they will be appearing here on 15th May. If I can introduce Mr Butt MLC, member of this Committee and our Clerk, Mr Roger Phillips. The other member of this Committee is Howard Quayle MHK, but he is a member of the Department of Infrastructure, and as they have a direct input into this inquiry, he stepped aside. He 10 is not taking part in this. Can I ask that Members and everybody ensure that their mobile phones are turned off; and to the witnesses, and also to us as well, not to talk over each other, because of the sound recording. The remit of this inquiry is: 15 ‘That the Economic Committee should examine whether – (a) the current ‘Open Skies’ policy is, in the light of changing circumstances, still in the best interests of the Isle of Man in preserving and encouraging an adequate, frequent and long-term network of scheduled air services between the Island and major business and social destinations; and (b) the determination of the Island’s civil aviation policy should properly be in the remit of the Department of 20 Economic Development, with the operation and management of the Airport the responsibility of the Department of Infrastructure; and report to Tynwald…’ The original date was given as April 2013, but as I explained to Tynwald at the last meeting, 25 this is an inquiry in which we are taking a lot of evidence. There is a lot to do, so we will not be reporting until later in the year. We have already taken evidence from the Department of Infrastructure and the Department of Economic Development. When we get to the end of taking evidence, we will probably be speaking to those two Departments again, who will be aware of the evidence that has been given. 30 EVIDENCE OF MR N HAYES AND MR D BUCK 35 Q67. The Chairman: So if I can welcome you, Mr Hayes and Mr Buck. Could we start off – if you could explain to the Committee your background within the industry and how you have come to be in positions you are now. Mr Buck. 40 Mr Buck: My name is David Buck. I originally came into the industry in 1983, working from Her Majesty’s Air Force. When I left the Air Force in 1989, I joined the civil aviation side of flying. I worked for a company in the UK called Air UK. They were subsequently bought out by KLM UK and I worked there, mainly at the base level, from an operational point of view, working my way up to schedule delivery manager within the company, before moving to the Isle of Man to 45 take up a position with Manx Airlines. _________________________________________________________________ 21 EPRC-OS/12-13 TYNWALD STANDING COMMITTEE, THURSDAY, 25th APRIL 2013 From the Manx Airlines position, British Airways bought that company out, and with the rearrangement within the department I eventually became operations manager for British Airways City Express. I had to move my department from the Isle of Man over to Birmingham and then took the actual decision myself that I would not move with the company. I left that company and 50 joined EuroManx as a director of ground operations, and when EuroManx sadly demised, Noel kindly came along and offered me a position working for a company called FLM Aviation who were operating on behalf of Manx2. After that, I joined Manx2 and subsequently have risen to the position of Managing Director of Citywing. 55 The Chairman: Thank you. Mr Hayes: Well, whereas David has been in aviation man and boy, I confess I am a relatively new joiner to the aviation industry. My background is in City and finance. 60 Fifteen years ago, I was living on the island of Alderney, and at that time, we had a monopoly service provider to the island of Alderney, a monopoly air service. I was in the retail business at that stage, and the only way to get proper supplies of freight to my retail business was to set up a competing airline with the monopoly carrier. That monopoly carrier was a company Aurigny, which is owned by the States of Guernsey. So I set up, 15 years ago, my own airline company, 65 called Rockhopper, which then changed its name to Blue Islands. About six years ago now, I sold my controlling stake in the company to my partner in Guernsey, but the last thing I did for Blue Islands was to set up a link between the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. So six years ago I appeared in the Isle of Man, for the first time in my life, to set up an air link, found that I actually quite liked the place and was persuaded by the Department 70 of Trade and Industry and the Airport that there was a niche for a small operator of 19-seat aircraft, because there were a number of destinations that needed to be served from the Isle of Man that were not served. So we set up Manx2 and built the business up over the last six years, and the management then did a management buy-out of the business just before Christmas. I am now the Chairman of the 75 business and still keep an active interest and active involvement in the business, but David and the team manage the business on a day-to-day basis. Q68. The Chairman: Thank you very much Can I just ask you whether you have got any views on section (b) of our remit, which is 80 whether the civil aviation policy is better within the Department of Economic Development and the operation within the Department of Infrastructure? Does it actually make any difference to you, as an airline? Mr Hayes: I think – to not answer your question! – what we would probably say is the one 85 thing I feel very strongly is the commercial aspect of the Island’s air links, probably its sea links and also tourism, need to be in the same place. I think the absolutely crucial thing is that tourism and airline route development are in the same place under the same overall head. Otherwise, you could have the Airport trying to persuade an airline, for example, to open up a new route from the Island to Amsterdam, and you could have Tourism having made a policy decision on where they 90 are going to be spending their advertising for the next 12 months and none of it is focused on spending it in Amsterdam, so you could have them operating in two completely divergent directions. We have seen examples of this ourselves, where Tourism’s idea of where money should be spent is different from where we are working with the Airport on new route development. So I feel 95 very strongly that tourism development should be in the same place as the commercial side of airline route development. Do I think that the people who are responsible for looking after the number of passengers going through the Airport need to be in the same place as the people looking after the tarmac and the buildings? I think the answer is no.